Ai thread

[Jinef 2]

Half Life AI is still some of the best around today, that's quite cool.

The trooper guys, if the AI in OFP moved that fast and well in an urban enviroment it would be so much better.

[uiox 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Jinef @ 12 May 2003,21:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Half Life AI is still some of the best around today, that's quite cool.

The trooper guys, if the AI in OFP moved that fast and well in an urban enviroment it would be so much better.<span id='postcolor'>

lol

[cideway 0]

the experiance level of the troops should also determine how they react under fire and in an ambush situation. the green guys just out of kapooka should shit them selves. but elite troops like SASR boys should be spectacular at counter ambush tactics.

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Just be sure and make the AI not able to see through foliage! Just played some nice hard coop maps but usually died because of AI shooting through bushes at me (us) when we cant see them - and I dont mean after they've seen me.

[BronzeEagle 2]

Better models for people with no sleeves or even no shirts on.

[Time 0]

One thing I'd like to see (with a toggle option, perhaps) is emotional AI.  Presently the AI works like a machine, following orders and w/o personality.  The only thing I ever see them do similar to this is run away from time to time, but that's rare, and they don't go far, and they come back.

I'd like to see the AI have different personalities.  Some would be agressive; attempt to engage the enemy quickly and generally toss a lot of lead in their direction.  Some could always stick to cover and only pop out to shoot.  Some could take their time in combat and aim well.  Furthermore, I'd like to see their behavior affected by their situation.  Demoralized troops could crack under fire, and just hide wherever they could, maybe even try to flee, or surrender.  Also, the units shouldn't just obey orders blindly in combat.

I feel that this would make the game an even more realistic experience, because right now, even though the AI is good, they are a tad bit robotic in their actions.  I'd like to see more human AI developed in OFP2.

Of course, we'd need options to set personalities, or to disable things like disobeying orders and emotions, but I think it would be well worth it.

All this emotional AI is already 7 years old in a strategy called Close Combat (already made part 5) which should you all wargame fans know. The AI works really satisfying and if the BI would do it at least at this level as it is in CC, things would become really alive. And no more radio voices (that's only for the radio man to contact other squads), people should be talkin' and yellin' and we should reckognize the amount stress they suffer from their voice. And I'd like to see expressions on their faces (like "scared", "calm", "panic", "happy", ond so on...)

And there are also other factors of every combatant which affect his reactions in combat including

experience (they hide and fight better, gets increased by the amount of firefight),

strength (they run better, they don't get tired easily if they're in good physical condition),

morale (to run or not to run, that is the question),

intelligence (if they're more intelligent, usually the leaders, they won't just run to the enemy or get berserk or brave easily),

and there are two more things which I've fotgotten.

This is a must for every simulation of war. And if you haven't playd any part of the Close Combat series, shame on you, you don't know what you're missing. BI should at least copy (but improve would be even better, eh?) many ideas from there.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Quote[/b] ]I'd love to see a 'fear for life' in the ai. Not blindly running into a stream of bullets, but actaully keeping their head down and staying in cover.

This would apply less with CommBloc and ChiComm forces, whose main strategy is to plow right through the middle of an enemy force while spewing out relatively-inaccurate but overwhelming firepower.  African and Muslim forces would be just plain erratic in their fighting style.

Quote[/b] ]Choose your machine gunner  "F ?" then go to 'engage' or 'action' in the command menu and then have an option to 'suppress'. Once selected you right click and draw a window around the area you want him to fire on.

You could use a hot key to turn suppression on or off.

Sounds good.  I think that for any A.I. a suppression check should be made that makes them keep their heads down.  Players should be immune to enforced suppression, since the wise player will consider himself suppressed, anyway.

Quote[/b] ]Of course, we'd need options to set personalities, or to disable things like disobeying orders and emotions, but I think it would be well worth it.

Also sounds good.

Quote[/b] ]In sum: area fire, as well as point fire on inanimate objects. "Contact...Right Front...Enemy in the bushes....Light 'em up..."

Yep.

Quote[/b] ]Don't forget, we need CQB AI available and AI to breech buildings.  CS and Rainbow Six series are testiments to the fun of tango trashing, and I think it would gain a TON of people to buy OFP 2 by implimenting this.

Last but not least, it is VITAL in OFP 2 to have good CQB AI and CQB commands.

If the campaigns are set in the 70's, the CQB A.I. can't be too schooled.  Maybe something more like "Saving Private Ryan" and "The Band of Brothers".  "The Final Option"/"Who Dares Wins" shows what cutting-edge CQB was in the mid-80's.  What we have now is much more refined.  CQB in the 70's was probably to kick a door in and then spray the room.  A 4-man team walking down a street was probably easy pickin's for a sniper in a 2nd or 3rd floor window.

Consider that the Israel Defence Force's "Sayeret Mat'kal" (think Entebbe Airfield) was using Ingram Mac 10 or 11's for early airliner hostage situation training!  Messy!

Quote[/b] ]I'm wondering if BIS plans on doing anything about the AI's inability to handle recoil on automatic weapons?  They constantly shoot way over their targets.  It's like they line their sights up on the target and then just hold down the trigger, causing all but the first bullet to fly over the target.  I would expect recoil to cause a dispersion around the target, not a tight grouping 6 feet over the target.  Just set up an ambush mission with a machinegunner and a bunch of enemy trucks and watch him not take out a single one.

Note: the solution to this is NOT to reduce the recoil, it is to model recoil more realistically.

Yes, I discovered this fairly early on, like v1.50 or something.  I suspect that this is B.I.'s attempt to reduce the effectiveness of the LMG's.  It is very bad, but consider what facing an LMG could be like if they hadn't done this.  Currently, it seems like 1 round in 10 nears the target.

I suggested to B.I. that what needed to happen was to have a way to get closer to the ground in prone position, unable to return fire because your face is hugging the ground.  I felt that allowing the character avatar to sink into the ground half-way would be a good way to simulate a hasty fighting position and to reduce the chances of an LMG hitting suppressed units.  Alternatively or additionally, a way for a unit to dig out a hasty fighting position with his hands would be of benefit.

Quote[/b] ]AI needs some self-management of ammo as well as picking up special items such as LAW's or MG's if the teammembers with them have fallen.

Yep.

Quote[/b] ]You should have the option of using hand signals to control the squad instead of the stupid radio as well.  It should be something you could switch on and off.

Yeah, whispering and hand-signals during patrols, before contact.  Hand-signals and animal calls (bird sounds, coyote, etc.  ... believe it... OPFOR at JRTC did this) in stealth situations.  When a firefight has commenced, shouting and radio.  Only the guy with the PRC-77 and the soldier standing next to him would have access to radio comm.

Quote[/b] ]What about a "berserker" attitude ? I mean a soldier crack under pressure and fight in a crazy state like screamming running and firing at nothing and disobeying

Yeah, that would be some funny stuff... especially if you put him out of his misery or he fell right into your foxhole.

Quote[/b] ]Personally i think they should get rid of that radio system, it should be shouting system. I bet there is no army in the world that can issue radio for every soldier.

Agreed.  Only post-'85 Spec Ops probably had this capability.  I saw an OPFOR scout at JRTC with a little Motorola walkie-talkie in '88.

Quote[/b] ]3. Injuries need to mean more. AI rolling around on the ground yelling in pain, getting up running then stumbling, if only for a short period of time after they are shot. They need to be incapacitated according to the injury. Perhaps same should apply to player.

Yeah, things like blurry vision, a red tint to half the screen (blood running in one eye) ;), limping, audible coughing from a puncture lung (giving away your hiding place in a bush)... We've already got bad accuracy when wounded.

Speaking of which, sometimes soldiers cough and sneeze, especially if they think they are safe.  And if green or "safe" soldiers could have this audible "murmur" that sounds like speech, but you can't define what is being said.  By the way, most people who are talking cannot hear others...

Quote[/b] ]More initiative, a medic should move to a wounded soldier automatically. If under air attack and the guy with the AA launcher is killed somebody should have the sense to pick it up without being told.

Yep, keeping the LMG's manned is a priority.  Self-initiating medics would be very good, too.

Quote[/b] ]Also, grenade attacks at night are non-directional.  It pisses me off to lob a grenade in the darkness at a target and immediately have the survivors of the attack shoot you because they miraculously figured out your location from the lob.  This doesn't happen in real life.  To make the AI more realistic, it should fire blindly in all directions in response to such an attack, not know where the attacker is immediately.

Agreed.

Quote[/b] ]I don't know if someone mentioned this yet, but what's with the detonation on impact grenades? Is there even such a thing in RL? Normal, 5-second fuse grenades are a definate must.

Definitely.

--Uziyahu-IDF

http://www.idfsquad.com/

[Heatseeker 0]

Something that should be fixed for sure, a.i. can see too well in the dark in current OPF. Its like every single one of them have night vision gogles.

[Honk 0]

one thing thats bugs me is when one lousy enemy escapes you shooty wrath and you have to spend the next 6 hours looking for him, id like to see some kind of heirarchy implemented that would allow a mission to be completed without everyone being killed. For example you kill all the officers and a squad is below 75% strength it will surrender. That way if something has escaped it should be large enough to notice even over a large area. Only an idiot would miss 10 men legging it from a combat, or 3 tanks....not exaclty low key.

It depends on the mission scripting but it is already possible in OFP1.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

STRESSFIRE: One thing Rogue Spear and Raven Shield do well is have "stressfire". That's how accurate a soldier is when he is attempting to engage an enemy while he is being fired upon. In RS and RvS, when you shoot at an A.I. that is shooting at you, his accuracy decreases significantly, resulting in a prolonged one on one firefight. I believe that this is entirely realistic, as most street firefights actually occur within 15 meters (because the stress of being in a real firefight with someone is so great that neither crook nor cop can hit anything). Morpheus isn't joking when he says that he has seen men empty entire clips at an agent and hit nothing but air. There was even a story of a cop and a crook who accidentally ran into each other, stopping about 15 feet from each other, guns drawn. Neither one of them hit the other person because they were firing at each other simultaneously.

I believe that Elite troops (in the 95% - 100% skill level range) should be able to return fire without the penalty of stressfire, Expert troops (67% - 94%) should have a 50% chance of being adversely affected by stressfire, Veteran troops (34% - 66% skill level) should always be affected adversely by stressfire when under fire, Novice troops (skill level 11% - 33%) should be in stressfire when they detect the enemy, and Civilians (skill level 0% - 10% by default) should be affected by stressfire even when they are only in Danger mode and have not detected the enemy. (Note that a Civilian could be up to Veteran in skill level, if he was in a conflict during his military service, but because he is no longer training every day he should not exceed Veteran skill level until he once again participates in combat.)

[vitoal125 0]

I mentioned this a long time ago before even Red hammer came out I believe. AI should have a better IFF (identify friendly foe) system. As it is now, they will not fire on empty vehicles regardless if the enemy can use them or not. ( I know I would destroy a T80 if it worked and the crew was just outside of it) It also knows when 1 of its vehicles have been comandeered. If you steal a T72 and drive it into a soviet base, they won't know that you are a US soldier until you start killing them. Also, If you drove that same T72 to your base, some private with an AT4 will shoot at you because he thinks your a soviet, not like current ai.

this would probably be easy to implement because all youd really have to do would be to change the 'side' of a unit while it was in the vehicle

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I think the reasoning is that passwords and radio communications are used to identify yourself when you approach friendlies in real-life. It is doubtful (except maybe in a Spec Ops mission) that you would have the necessary password or be able to radio the friendly convincingly.

I think that it would be best if a certain amount of "surprise time" be allowed in such situations.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Sleeping Soldiers:

When I soldier is abruptly roused from sleep one way or the other without waking on his own, there should be a couple of minutes where the soldier is completely disoriented and confused.

If he wakes on his own (that is, his body had slept enough), he should only be disoriented for about 5 seconds.

This, of course, would necessitate soldiers who can sleep, which I think is absolutely necessary for realistic Spec Ops missions.

Erratic fire:

I think there should be a random pattern to fire. "Bang...bang, bang...burst...bang...burrrrrrrst" The more panicky the soldier the more times they will fire without taking careful aim. The more panicky they are, the more they will hold down the trigger in full-auto, too.

[Baphomet 0]

I don't know if this has been posted yet. Weighing in at 62 replies feel free to delete my redundancy should it end up being so. =P

... anyhow. Character interaction, and I don't mean insofar as mundane crap like talking and chitchat and such. To illustrate my point. Have you ever seen a squad you were assualting with nearly torn to pieces... or a tank squad scamper away from their wrecked vehicle? Didn't it frustrate you that you couldn't say or indicate that they should join you or something? Should you have the space to command them that is. I don't necessarily mean by scripted events either. Just out of the blue you see an allied plane shot down... you meet up with the pilot and you can attempt to bring him into the fold so he doesn't run off bumbling into the enemy. So he can actually be useful in a group.

Anyhow that's just my idea really. Allowing my character various options of interfacing with AI, not necessarily in a cinematic way, but to more efficiently coordinate and compensate for things on an ever-changing battlefield.

[Naruto 0]

I have an suggestion for a script.

Make the AI be more realistic like:

- Retreat when they're about to lose.

- Take cover, and use landscape to it's advantage.

- Make AI use airstrike and call backup, reinfocement.

- Make AI ambush you when they get the chance.

- Make AI snipers kill Officers first.

Or make more than one script, as you must have understood.

my suggestion is to make AI releaistic, and make them think

so....................... i'm going to bed

I orginaly posted this at the scripting topic so i just copyed.

next target. BED!

[The Frenchman 0]

This will make giving commands easier.

The game Socom: US Navy SEALs came with a microphone that you could give commands with ai. It reconized your words and made it able to encrypt into the ai's "brain".

The game could come with a microphone.

This way you don't accidentally tell ai to turn the engine off while mid air.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

It would definetely be cool if OFP2 had voice recognition technology built into it for the AI. And if you said something they didn't understand, the AI could say "what on earth are you talking about" or something.

[Naruto 0]

ye that would rock!

I got SOCOM: us navy seals.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

I have an suggestion for a script.

Make the AI be more realistic like:

- Retreat when they're about to lose.

- Take cover, and use landscape to it's advantage.

- Make AI use airstrike and call backup, reinfocement.

- Make AI ambush you when they get the chance.

- Make AI snipers kill Officers first.

I believe that they'll do all of this except for #4, right now.

Try putting a Cobra flying into a group with a squad on the ground commanding it. The A.I. commander will tell the Cobra to take out the BMP or Tank.

[USSoldier11B 0]

I would like to see smoke grenades provide actual concealment. This does work in MP, but not against AI in single player where smoke is little more than eye candy.

[Eda Mrcoch 0]

I want more FF!  

I think AI should have more problem with friend/foe identification. If you for example have an AK, you're shooting from it and you're moving from enemy direction, AI (friendly and enemy) should have problem to id you if they don't see you clear (poor flanker ).

Now, the AI leader knows perfectly positions of all his subordinates and AI also identifies friendly units in a glimpse even if they're running trough dense jungle. If something like this is implemented, I would also like to see "Report position" command implemented for players to avoid FF.

[Uziyahu--IDF 0]

Yep, A.I. should definitely friendly fire sometimes and also fire at an area (like into the trees and bushes) when they believe the enemy is in there but they aren't sure where(at least, when they are taking fire from the same area).

[FatNinjaKid 0]

I want more FF!  

I think AI should have more problem with friend/foe identification.

I think you can already change that in the config.

I recall there is a line like <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">FFfrequency = 5 or something.   you can toggle that for the different fire modes.

You are probably right when you're saying more frequent FF was more realistic. But when you're actually playing the game and your dumbass team members constantly zap eachother in the most inappropriate moments... well, that's no fun at all.

[malick 0]

I want more FF!  

I think AI should have more problem with friend/foe identification.

I think you can already change that in the config.

I recall there is a line like <table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td>Code Sample </td></tr><tr><td id="CODE">FFfrequency = 5

or something.   you can toggle that for the different fire modes.

You are probably right when you're saying more frequent FF was more realistic. But when you're actually playing the game and your dumbass team members constantly zap eachother in the most inappropriate moments... well, that's no fun at all.

What you say is quite interesting

Didn't know that we could change this right into the config. Though I often get shot at by my own squad mates when I play one man army Guess they don't like you being a hero

[Baron Hurlothrumbo IIX 0]

Sleeping Soldiers:

When I soldier is abruptly roused from sleep one way or the other without waking on his own, there should be a couple of minutes where the soldier is completely disoriented and confused.

If he wakes on his own (that is, his body had slept enough), he should only be disoriented for about 5 seconds.

This, of course, would necessitate soldiers who can sleep, which I think is absolutely necessary for realistic Spec Ops missions.

Erratic fire:

I think there should be a random pattern to fire.  "Bang...bang, bang...burst...bang...burrrrrrrst"  The more panicky the soldier the more times they will fire without taking careful aim.  The more panicky they are, the more they will hold down the trigger in full-auto, too.

Quote[/b] ]When I soldier is abruptly roused from sleep one way or the other without waking on his own, there should be a couple of minutes where the soldier is completely disoriented and confused.

Doesn't happen that way IRL. When you go to sleep you have your assigned shell scrape or fighting position, and when you wake up you go there. And you sleep near it so you can get to it easily.

I've been bumped on exercise a few times while sleeping, and what you find is that you motivate yourself very quickly to where you should be.