The north korea thread

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]Like I said, age hardly matters.

Well I disagree. Arguing with a 14 year old boy from Kansas is different to arguing with a 25 years old guy who has experience in what he is talking about. At least that´s my opinion.

[Schoeler 0]

Quote[/b] ]I personally think North Korea should be attacked.  Kim Jong Il does not pose a threat directly to the US or its allies but he probebly will sell his nukes to terrorists who themselves would use them against the US and its allies.

So you want to start another war ? Excuse me but I have to ask that. How old are you ? Have you been soldier ever ?

And where do you get your knowledge from ?

I think that North Korea should be negotiated with. If the U.S. needs to do it alone, then so be it. If North Korea fails to back down, then the U.N. should authorize airstrikes and further isolate the North politically and economically. If North Korea persists in its pursuit of nuclear weapons, then the Korean War should go hot again. After all, it never ended, the U.N. (key members at least) is still at war with North Korea.

[<54th>Hellfire 0]

Quote[/b] ]I personally think North Korea should be attacked.  Kim Jong Il does not pose a threat directly to the US or its allies but he probebly will sell his nukes to terrorists who themselves would use them against the US and its allies.

So you want to start another war ? Excuse me but I have to ask that. How old are you ? Have you been soldier ever ?

And where do you get your knowledge from ?

I think that North Korea should be negotiated with.  If the U.S. needs to do it alone, then so be it.  If North Korea fails to back down, then the U.N. should authorize airstrikes and further isolate the North politically and economically.  If North Korea persists in its pursuit of nuclear weapons, then the Korean War should go hot again.  After all, it never ended, the U.N. (key members at least) is still at war with North Korea.

The Negotiating part would be far better off if China would side with the US, but you can never trust a communist anyway so it really doesn't matter. Russia needs to put pressure on too, after all, North Korea is just across their border.

[FallenPaladin 0]

The Negotiating part would be far better off if China would side with the US, but you can never trust a communist anyway so it really doesn't matter.

Generalizations aren`t good either.

Take a look at that:

Is this what you learned at school and from Fox News?

[mr. Duck 0]

Xena is in New Zealand?

ontopic:

I'll say let's all keep a good eye out on kimmie, one wrong move/nuke and we'll waste him...

[shrike 0]

Latest intel results:  

 No offense intended

Aloha

Shrike, honey pissing liberal

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Judging by polls that suggest that some americans now think Saddam actually USED his WMD (the ones he may or may not have had) during the war, that map probably isnt too far off (although englands way too big and americas too small+ the commie lines need to run along the canadian border or cut off Quebec (French) at least)

I dont think a map of what europe thinks would be so great either though.

Anyway North Korea is tricky. Seeing as the NK government feels almost no responsibility to its people (beyond keeping them good dictator worshipping communists) there is that added burden on the rest of the world powers to try to minimise suffering for the people. I cant quite see where the sunshine policy (or whatever its called) could lead. I mean NK is a long way from China where a pro-democracy/press freedom etc movement is starting to develop. Its a Stalinist society, perhaps the best thing (unfortunatly) is to wait for the Stalinite to bite the dust or for the regime to start to disintegrate (at which point something clever could happen) whilst following a narrow line between contructive engagement and punishing disengagement (or even threats of physical force). It could take some time. I cant see war being a good option for anyone right now.

The ideal is for the north to eventually merge with the south peacefully in a spirit of pan korean brotherhood and freedom. An east/west German style, Berlin wall smashing , relatively bloodless coming together and union. Like i said, it could take some time...

[Die Alive 0]

There was this article on this new book, about Kim's chef.  The original online article isn't available anymore http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,200575,00.html, but I found this copied/pasted from somewhere else.

===================

Chef dishes out the dirt on Kim

North Korean leader ate the best food while his people starved

TOKYO - When it came to food, it had to be nothing but the best for North Korea's supreme leader Kim Jong Il.

So says his former Japanese sushi chef, who penned a book on his years serving and cooking for Mr Kim.

And to satisfy his boss the gourmet, Mr Kenji Fujimoto, the pen name used by the chef, travelled abroad frequently.

He went to Japan for the freshest fish and especially the fatty tuna that Mr Kim loved, to Thailand for durian and mango, to Iran for caviar and even once to Singapore in 1990 for fruits.

Mr Kim was said to love eel and had it three times a week when it was in season. He also took a fancy to catfish and sent two chefs to learn how to prepare catfish dishes from a speciality restaurant in Tokyo.

He also had dog soup on Sundays, and on 'every special dog-eating summer day'.

Mr Fujimoto noted that a cook and waiter were assigned to examine each grain of rice before cooking to ensure that Mr Kim was served only perfect grains.

He also had a glimpse of Mr Kim's 10,000 bottle liquor cellar. Mr Kim's favourites were Johnny Walker Swing and Hennessey XO.

In his book, titled simply Kim Jong Il's Chef, Mr Fujimoto also recounted a nuclear crisis in 1995 that left Mr Kim shaken and speechless.

On Dec 30 that year, a top government official reported to Mr Kim that many workers at nuclear facilities showed signs of radiation sickness, their teeth and hair falling out.

'Kim Jong Il said nothing. It is probably accurate to say he could not say anything. Those workers were undoubtedly never going to emerge from the underground nuclear facilities alive,' Mr Fujimoto wrote.

The chef also recalled that in 1989, he was asked by Mr Kim whether he opposed North Korea having nuclear weapons.

'If we don't own nuclear weapons, we will be attacked by other countries,' the leader was quoted as saying.

The chef confirmed rumours that Mr Kim suffered a fall from a horse in 1992 and fractured his collarbone, which took a month to heal.

Close to Mr Kim's three sons, he disclosed that the North Korean leader most favoured his little-known youngest son, 20-year-old Kim Jong Woon, 'who resembled his father in every way, including physique'. He pooh-poohed previous reports that the North Korean leader wanted his second son, 22-year-old Kim Jong Chul, to succeed him, saying that his father often described him as 'just like a girl'.

Mr Fujimoto, 56, said he went to Pyongyang in 1982 at the invitation of a North Korean-affiliated trading company in Japan.

So how did a mere chef know so much?

Mr Fujimoto did more than make sushi.

Of similar build to the North Korean leader and adept at several sports, he was accorded special treatment by Mr Kim and became the latter's playmate as well, going swimming, shooting and horse riding together.

Once the Korean leader challenged Mr Fujimoto to a water bike race and lost. Mr Kim asked for a second chance but this time, he came back riding a much larger bike and naturally won the race which took place, said Mr Fujimoto, at a time when the country was ravaged by floods and famine.

There were also moments with Mr Kim when Mr Fujimoto's blood froze.

Once he heard the leader asking a high-ranking military official: 'Have you shot them?'

Wrote Mr Fujimoto: 'When I heard that, I felt my body beginning to shake. Those who were killed apparently belonged to the anti-Kim faction.'

In November 1998, Mr Fujimoto's phone calls to Japan during a trip to Macau were tapped. He was subsequently accused of espionage and kept under house arrest in Pyongyang for 14 months.

Although allowed to cook for Mr Kim again, he feared he might never be able to return to Japan. Finally in April 2001, on the pretext of buying uni or sea urchin to bring back to Pyongyang, he left North Korea for Japan - for the last time, leaving his wife behind in Pyongyang.

The book is the result of his decision to sever all ties with his former boss.

========================

Other scoops on the dear leader

Until Azaleas Bloom (1996) By Shin Young Hee, a dancer who performed at Mr Kim's parties.

# Story is Shin's account of Mr Kim's harem of actresses and showgirls as well as her family's escape from North Korea. She says Mr Kim stages drinking contests, sometimes involving beer spiked with urine. Winners sometimes receive a car or a piano.

# In 1997, South Korea's Korean Broadcasting System received bomb threats for producing a drama based on the book.

Our Escape Is Not Over (1989) By Choi Un Hee and Shin Sang Ok, a South Korean actress and director, respectively, kidnapped by Mr Kim in 1978 to make propaganda films.

# Mr Kim refers to himself as 'small as a midget's turd'.

# Said Shin Sang Ok: 'Kim Jong Il was like any ordinary young man. He liked action movies, sex movies, horror movies. He liked all women that most men liked, he liked James Bond.'

I Was Kim Jong Il's Bodyguard (2002) By Lee Young Kuk, a former bodyguard of Mr Kim for 10 years.

# The Dear Leader has an elaborate security system of dummy cars, trains and boats and is surrounded by concentric rings of armed plainclothes bodyguards during his rare public appearances.

# He also banned secretaries from wearing hairpins, fearing that they might be used to assassinate him.

# Said Lee Young Kuk: 'At Kim Jong Il's villa there are many ladies - they call them his doctor, his nurse, his secretary, but basically they're just his playthings.'

Taedong River Royal Family (1996) By Lee Il Nam, a nephew of Mr Kim's ex-wife.

# A top official shot his own wife to death in front of Mr Kim to prove his loyalty after she displeased the dictator.

# The author, who had undergone drastic plastic surgery after his defection to Seoul in 1982, was killed by unknown assailants in 1997.

Orient Express: Through Russia with Kim Jong Il (2002) By Konstantin Pulikovsky, a Russian official who rode with Mr Kim on a 2001 rail journey to Moscow.

# Pulikovsky said their journey was marked by imported French wine, 15-course meals, fresh lobsters, roast donkey and comely female conductors.

-=Die Alive=-

[franze 196]

Arguing with a 14 year old boy from Kansas is different to arguing with a 25 years old guy who has experience in what he is talking about.

Hmm, I remember when I was 14 and I was in Kansas... I was thinking about how to solve the problems with getting cold fusion to work right because none of the other stuff in school was worth my time.

Bub, I'll take that as a insult, but I'll leave it be for now. You get experience as you age of course, which includes education, and so on. Whether or not you're smart or clever does not have anything to do with age or education, but rather how your mind is built.

Hey, Kansas might be a grass desert, but I'd prefer living here than anywhere else in the world.

[<54th>Hellfire 0]

When I was 14, I learned about chemicals and chemical reactions and learned that a plenty powerful laser could be made, and that its possible to make a laser rifle using chemical reactions rather than electricity. The Idea was nothing new at the time but that was before I learned about the military laser programs.

In any case, Franze is right.  Age doesnt matter, its how your mind is built.

[<54th>Hellfire 0]

Judging by polls that suggest that some americans now think Saddam actually USED his WMD (the ones he may or may not have had) during the war

He may not have used them against Americans (he knew that would be a grave mistake) but he used them against his own people.  

[Tex -USMC- 0]

Judging by polls that suggest that some americans now think Saddam actually USED his WMD (the ones he may or may not have had) during the war

He may not have used them against Americans (he knew that would be a grave mistake) but he used them against his own people.  

key words bering "during the war".

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Note 'during the war' (not Iran-Iraq war)

[The Frenchman 0]

LMAO!!!

[FSPilot 0]

RalphWiggum (from the Iraq thread 2)

Quote[/b] ]

It looks like Japan will be sending about 1000 combat engineers for "transport and construction duties." Hopefully, their first job will be the civilian infrastructure.

although my post will be offtopic this is a big change in Japan's miltary and constitutional perspective. their military is for defense use only, and cannot be deployed outside of the Japan. however, with this event, seems like they are trying to change their constitution or bend it.

Would this change the possibility of them getting involved in a NK incident?

[ralphwiggum 6]

daeng~~~! you are smarter than you look.

i think so. should NK attack SK, i think JDF(Japan Defense Force) will goto SK and bring their citizens back. which will be technically bending their contitution to some degree.

Given that Koreans don't like Japanese gov't's history due to Japan's occupation, i think this will be a touchy subject.

[Warin 0]

daeng~~~! you are smarter than you look.

i think so. should NK attack SK, i think JDF(Japan Defense Force) will goto SK and bring their citizens back. which will be technically bending their contitution to some degree.

Given that Koreans don't like Japanese gov't's history due to Japan's occupation, i think this will be a touchy subject.

I can understand why the Japanese might be a little paranoid about NK possesing nukes.

But considering the track record of the Japanese military on the asian continent, I think the worst thing they could do is send troops, unless the SouthKorean government specifically asked for the help.

Considering the role of the Japanese in Iraq (ie: Totally non-combatant), I dont think this is as much of a problem as you might think. But hten again, I am not 100% sure of exactly what prohibitions the Japanese have for use of their military outside of the islands.

[FSPilot 0]

Or maybe they would just send non-combatant help.

[Warin 0]

Or maybe they would just send non-combatant help.

Possibly. But I dont see the SK government asking the Japanese for help..

I could be wrong, but I think there are still a lot of resentments left over from WWII.

[FSPilot 0]

I don't understand that at all. Most of the people from WWII are either dead or living in a retirement home. Today's Japan isn't anything like WWII Japan.

...

I think

[Warin 0]

I don't understand that at all.  Most of the people from WWII are either dead or living in a retirement home.  Today's Japan isn't anything like WWII Japan.

...

I think  

The Japanese were as brutal and cruel to people in occupied territories during WWII as the Germans ever were.

I'm not saying that the Japanese of today are like that, but old hatreds and fears die very slowly.

[FSPilot 0]

I can understand that. But the people they fear and hate are long gone.

maybe i just dont hold grudges like other people

[Warin 0]

I can understand that.  But the people they fear and hate are long gone.

maybe i just dont hold grudges like other people

Dont take this as a flame, because it's not meant to be one

Neither you nor I can even remotely understand what the 'average' Korean might feel in this regard.  I suspect pretty much every Korean person has parents and grandparents who had horrific things happen to them at the hands of the Japanese only a few decades ago (60 years really isnt a long time in the grand sceme of things).  If we were in a similar situation, I am not sure we could be as 'forgive and forget' as you seem to be.

[ran 0]

France and Great britain are a good exemple

[FSPilot 0]

If we were in a similar situation, I am not sure we could be as 'forgive and forget' as you seem to be.

You're probably right. As much as I hate to admit it, if I was tortured by an occupying army I probably wouldn't turn the other cheek.