The north korea thread

[Schoeler 0]

Trouble?

Talks are on the verge of collapse/North Korea has nukes.

[Epita 0]

Its not likly to happen, NK has dropped the hard line attitude towards the US after seeing what they did to Iraq.

Also Japan has allready begun stepping up its defence force to counter any attack by NK. (thats a little old though)

Epita (when did the new forum come online???)

[FSPilot 0]

Doubtful.  NK isn't very war-worthy if you ask me.  They're bad, but it could still be solved through diplomacy.

</oversimplification>

[Cloney 0]

I'm convinced they'll collapse under their own weight. What are they? 50 years behind Iraq in terms of infastructure?

[Guest]

They've gote nukes and an intercontinental delivery system that can reach the US west coast. You don't really go against those odds.

[FSPilot 0]

But our stick is bigger.  They know if they try to attack (nuke) us they'll have US/SK forces in their extra-crispy territory.

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 24 2003,23:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They've gote nukes and an intercontinental delivery system that can reach the US west coast. You don't really go against those odds.<span id='postcolor'>

The delivery system is untested. And even Kim Il Sung isnt stupid enough to try lobibng a nuk across the pacific in an untested platform.

I'd be more concerned about the NK's setting it off from a submarine under a carrier battle group.. or something equally insidious.

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But our stick is bigger. They know if they try to attack (nuke) us they'll have US/SK forces in their extra-crispy territory.

<span id='postcolor'>

Indeed but Kim Jong Il is not exactly what you would call a rational man. If he feels threatened, he will use it. Are you ready to sacrifice LA, San Francisco and Seattle in exchange that you turn NK into a parking lot?

[Major Gripe 0]

i understood that America was going to pressure China into 'sorting out' NK by threatening punitive economic policies and equipping Japan with nuclear weapons for 'self defence' absolutely free! Therefore no risk to US servicemen/women.

[ale2999 0]

Guys, well I live in canada and my friend is supposedly getting shipped to Korea, he is suppose to be as Spec Op, but he is leaving saturday.

[tracy_t 0]

Some spec op! I thought soldiers were supposed to keep their mouth shut - you know, careless talk costs lives?

Oh well.

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ April 24 2003,17:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">They've gote nukes and an intercontinental delivery system that can reach the US west coast. You don't really go against those odds.<span id='postcolor'>

Hehehe, F'em, they voted for Gore.

-=Die Alive=-

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Indeed but Kim Jong Il is not exactly what you would call a rational man. If he feels threatened, he will use it. Are you ready to sacrifice LA, San Francisco and Seattle in exchange that you turn NK into a parking lot?<span id='postcolor'>

Well first off like Warin said, we don't know that it would work perfectly. Secondly, even though he's obviously irrational I doubt he'd be THAT irrational.

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ April 25 2003,01:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Indeed but Kim Jong Il is not exactly what you would call a rational man. If he feels threatened, he will use it. Are you ready to sacrifice LA, San Francisco and Seattle in exchange that you turn NK into a parking lot?<span id='postcolor'>

Well first off like Warin said, we don't know that it would work perfectly.  Secondly, even though he's obviously irrational I doubt he'd be THAT irrational.<span id='postcolor'>

No...he's not so irrational to try to say....I don't know...kidnap movie stars to boost the North Korean film industry...no....he's not THAT irrational.

EDIT: Tested it or not. The fact is he can lob nukes. And its not that hard to hit in the general area of a city.

[MLF 0]

Doubt it NK has an army something the US dont wanna come up against and then there are the nukes, im guessing the next country will be small and have an army that will capitulate with little or no big combat....

Syria care to dance?

[FallenPaladin 0]

It`s great! We`re already guessing about the next war. But why can`t the USA simply stay calm and peaceful???

[Akira 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ April 25 2003,02:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It`s great! We`re already guessing about the next war. But why can`t the USA simply stay calm and peaceful???<span id='postcolor'>

Actually its NK who is talking big this time. Not the US. The US, for once, has continued diplomacy with NK. It's NK, not the US, that hurled the first threats. It was NK, not the US, that took the first provacative actions. NK has continued to make provacative action against not only the US, but Japan and SK as well.

And the fact that the US doesn't want to start something with a nuke wielding madman is known. If you and I know it...don't you think Kim Il Jong might think and know it as well. And if that is the case, then what is to stop him from fulfilling the life long dream of a unified peninsula, if he feels the US won't do anything?

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ April 25 2003,02:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It`s great! We`re already guessing about the next war. But why can`t the USA simply stay calm and peaceful???<span id='postcolor'>

North Korea is the aggressor in this situation. The U.S. has been trying the diplomatic route, and it is Kim Jong Il who is making outrageous demands. He basically thinks he can hold the world hostage with his nukes, and is defying the entire world and threatening the entire region. No one wants this madman to have nuclear weapons, especially China, Japan and South Korea. Kim has stepped up the aggressive talk to the point where no one is willing to concede anything to him any more. He's basically going to force the U.N. into a war.

I read that it was recently leaked that the U.S. is negotiating with China to form a coalition to take down his regime should the talks collapse. A nuclear North Korea is unacceptable for the whole world. This nation is a hundred times more threatening than Iraq ever was.

[Jinef 2]

My friend recently went to Norway, where he met an American who was born in Texas, and then moved to Norway where he has lived most of his life. However the American has renounced his Norwegian citizenship and is going to try and join the green berets, apparently his dream is to die for his country in battle. Well anyway this guy wanted to invade Syria, Iran, North Korea, also Somalia, the Sudan and basically anywhere that could be had with out casualties. This guy was basically an all American Hero with a bit of a Norwegian accent who had a childish hatred of the French and kept on speaking about how he should go down there and beat up as many of them as possible.

I myself, seeing that Britain is doubting Syria as a target of UK military actions, think that it is unlikely for the US to rouse any support whatsoever and if they went alone, well they were not wanting to go into Iraq alone so NK would be altogether a big cockup with lot's of unneccesary death.

I really like the American SAR pilot's i've met, the National guard ones, why can't America spend it's huge military budget on doing useful things like rescuing people instead of attacking small and insignifigant countries. I would like to see them take on India and do some proper colonising if they do anything at all!

They had no trouble with Afghanistan, much to my dismay, ahh to see bloodshed on the scale of when we tried to do it!

[Col. Kurtz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 25 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> This nation is a hundred times more threatening than Iraq ever was.<span id='postcolor'>

And that is why the US is playing carefully, they are up against a nation that is quite dangerous. If the US starts assembling a big invasion force, North Koreas going to spit the dummy and start something, or continue something. Remember: North and South Korea are technically still at war with each other.

I think the best way to stop N. Korea from doing something dangerous is to not threaten it. Start threatening it and it will start talking about turning L.A. into a radioactive wasteland which would be ever so tragic since one of our beloved moderators is in the area

The only way North Korea is probably going to stop its nuclear program is if its demans are met. It sucks having to give into the agressors, but sometimes you have to do it. Start giving tgem their aid back and they might be more convinced to stop playing with nukes.

On the other hand, you could just wipe out the entire Korean penninsula and be done with it

[edc 0]

I think that the threat from NK is part of the reason we need a anit-ballistic missile defense system that's really made to intercept ICBM's.  Also China is a threat.  And while NK may not be a huge threat now, ten years from now that could have drastically changed.

Right now they probably have few enough nuclear weapons that it wouldn't be too too difficult to locate and destroy all of them, especially if we had good intelligence.  

We should never give in to terrorist/hostage takers/etc, because once they see that if they make threats or take hostages they can get what they want, they and other people will do it again to get more.  Remember the line from the movie Air Force One(taken from a book) "if you give a mouse a cookie, he'll ask for a glass of milek"(or something like that).  What if we give in this time, and a few yerars from now Kim ask for part of South Korea.  What are we going to do then say its not much to avoid a large war?  Remember Germany in the late thirties, the Brits and some of the other European countries let Hitler take part of Czechlesloviakia, because they said to avoid another world war it would worth it to give him a little land to appease him.  A few years later that world war happened anyway.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ April 25 2003,04:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ April 25 2003,11:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> This nation is a hundred times more threatening than Iraq ever was.<span id='postcolor'>

And that is why the US is playing carefully, they are up against a nation that is quite dangerous. If the US starts assembling a big invasion force, North Koreas going to spit the dummy and start something, or continue something. Remember: North and South Korea are technically still at war with each other.

I think the best way to stop N. Korea from doing something dangerous is to not threaten it. Start threatening it and it will start talking about turning L.A. into a radioactive wasteland which would be ever so tragic since one of our beloved moderators is in the area  

The only way North Korea is probably going to stop its nuclear program is if its demans are met. It sucks having to give into the agressors, but sometimes you have to do it. Start giving tgem their aid back and they might be more convinced to stop playing with nukes.

On the other hand, you could just wipe out the entire Korean penninsula and be done with it <span id='postcolor'>

I believe in playing it carefully, and not making it seem as if we want war, but I also believe we can't concede to whatever outrageous demand Kim makes next.

Appeasement never works. Neville Chamberlain tried it with Hitler and guess what? He became even more aggressive. When you have maniacal despots running a large military power, war might be inevitable.

I think the only thing this dude understands is force. He backed down after the Iraq invasion, and now he's ratcheting things up again. Face it, he's friggin nuts. I think he's getting off on giving the world the finger.

[Harnu 0]

Even if NK has an ICBM that can reach the west coast, we do have counter-measures don't we? I've seen several things on TLC about planes and other technology that could destroy a nuclear weapon in flight. And there's still all the things from the cold war we've kept and upgraded. To see if anything is launched.

Right? Or has my imagination created more TV shows in my head

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ April 25 2003,04:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if NK has an ICBM that can reach the west coast, we do have counter-measures don't we?  I've seen several things on TLC about planes and other technology that could destroy a nuclear weapon in flight.  And there's still all the things from the cold war we've kept and upgraded.  To see if anything is launched.

Right?  Or has my imagination created more TV shows in my head  <span id='postcolor'>

If I am not mistaken, the ABM tests so far have been largely failures.

With the size of an RV and speed, interception is a huge problem.

Now, if you can get it in the boost phase it's slower and bigger.

[Schoeler 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ April 25 2003,04:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Harnu @ April 25 2003,04:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Even if NK has an ICBM that can reach the west coast, we do have counter-measures don't we?  I've seen several things on TLC about planes and other technology that could destroy a nuclear weapon in flight.  And there's still all the things from the cold war we've kept and upgraded.  To see if anything is launched.

Right?  Or has my imagination created more TV shows in my head  <span id='postcolor'>

If I am not mistaken, the ABM tests so far have been largely failures.  

With the size of an RV and speed, interception is a huge problem.

Now, if you can get it in the boost phase it's slower and bigger.<span id='postcolor'>

No actually, the EKV (Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle) developed by Raytheon has been a major success. It failed in early trials due to really dumb mistakes that had nothing to do with the interceptor itself. One time some dumbass tech forgot to load the coolant chemical into the thermal sensor and so for one of the critical tests, the EKV was basically blind. Two other tests failed due to problems with the rocket booster developed by I believe Rockwell. Subsequent tests have been a huge success with several critical intercepts, the EKV successfully picked out the MIRV's among dozens of decoys and destroyed them out in space. Of course, some politicians and MIT scientists with political and financial agendas took the ball and ran with it during the early failures, blaming the whole thing on EKV and saying it was a waste of money. Strange thing is, they had contracts and campaign donations from Raytheon's major competitors. Gee, I wonder if this is linked somehow?

The SM3ER missile by the Navy has also show a reasonably good ability to intercept MIRV's when coupled with an Aegis radar/fire control system.

Boeing is working on a 747 with a chemical laser in the nose that will intercept ICBM's during their first or second boost stages, that shows tremendous promise.

My Dad worked on a project called AOA, that basically put a whole bunch of sensors onboard a Boeing 767, that was designed to find and track multiple ICBM's being launched, and to find MIRV's on reentry. I can't divulge some of the things I've heard about how good this system is, but let's just say it works better than anyone has let on.