The Dogs of War

[Guest]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 25 2003,18:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I hope we can give them air and artillery support.<span id='postcolor'>

Not going to happen. I just listened to a press conference with the British commander in charge of the Basra operations. He said that they are only involved in operations outside Basra and that they have currently no plans of going in. He said that they are taking artillery fire from the centre of the town, but that they can't return fire because of fear of civilian casualties.

He could not confirm that there was an uprising in Basra but said that he hoped there would be, judging from the events in 1991.

A BBC newsman continued with an analysis saying that the people of Basra were finally starting to see the coalition as friends and hence the uprising.

The truth is actually the opposite. It's like Tex says - every society is two meals away from a revolution. The miserable conditions in Basra are the reason behind it. The sad part is that destroying civilian infrastructure and killing civilians is the quickest way to get a surrender. That's exactly what happened in Yugoslavia. It was first when NATO targeted the civilian infrastructure that the tide turned and the Serbs forced Milosevic to accept a cease-fire.

Kill a lot of civilians - they won't like you, but they'll surrender quickly.

This is also a strategy that I believe would work for Baghdad. Destroy water supplies and electrical plants. Cut off the food supply. Drop unguided munitions. Break them down. The problem is of course the political consequences...

[Guest]

One side-note about getting a feel for the size of Baghdad.

Baghdad, without the suburbs has a diameter of about 12 km, making it slightly larger then the entire Nogova island in OFP.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

ZIKAN-"It would be interesting to know what kind of percentage of the population of Baghdad are Sh'ia..."

over 60% AS I POSTED ONLY A FEW PAGES BACK.

I have just seen a TV report that made me a bit more optimistic. The smiling people of Umm Qasr are now getting aid and they seemed fairly happy about getting rid of Saddam and meeting and talking with the coalition(who knows how long it will last).

The reports i have seen indicate a renewed British offensive taking account of and giving support to the apparent uprising

Yes depriving the civ. pop. of amenities or basic requirements is one way of provoking action. But the Shia of Basra proved in 1991 that they only need an excuse to rise against Saddam. Im not convinced its just a water pump on the blink thats caused this uprising(incidentally 40% of water supplies have been restored).

[Warin 0]

LOL!

A cute little cartoon. If you go there and it doesnt relate to this, go backwards to Tuesday March 24th.

[IsthatyouJohnWayne 0]

Actually the cartoon of the 24th does kinda ring a bell. I dont think the outcome of the war has been pre-arranged in a smoky room but am i the only one whos had a strange sense of media 'hyper-reality' about the war? It feels both totally unreal and yet simultaneously more real and vivid than real life itself...kinda like a computer game in fact. Whoa.

I think ive really overdosed on coverage of this war. If i hear one more report (almost identical to the previous 75 others) about 'pockets of resistance in Umm Qasr' i think ill introduce the Tv to a baseball bat.

[bogo 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 25 2003,21:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LOL!

A cute little cartoon.  If you go there and it doesnt relate to this, go backwards to Tuesday March 24th.

<span id='postcolor'>

That's one funny cartoon LOL

[Akira 0]

If Your Are Going To Join The Iraqi Military, Join The Navy

[Warin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Mar. 25 2003,23:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Your Are Going To Join The Iraqi Military, Join The Navy<span id='postcolor'>

Now that is truly absurd.

But funny!

I bet those sailors are happy to be sucking back espresso and relaxing in the sun rather than being at home.

[Tovarish 0]

Two British tankers killed by another Challenger

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm....oldiers

[munger 25]

Damn. Friendly fire seems to curse us Brits. I can't understand how they could mistake a Challenger 2 for a T55. They are pretty much completely the opposite in shape and size. It's ironic that the only thing present that could have harmed that tank crew was another British tank.

Edit: Just heard reports of massive fighting near Kurkuk. Apparently Iraqi forces have sneak attacked the 3rd Infantry during the night. Sky News say the Iraqis have already lost over 500 men. Maybe the Iraqi commander should make a mental note not to attack heavy armour with small arms and grenades.  

[Nagual 0]

I just thought i'd post this article, about jamming guided weapons (is an old article), it is interesting considering the talk of russians supplying tech to iraq:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BOG211A.html

[Schoeler 0]

I just heard an intersting bit on the news. It seems American flag makers correctly anticipated an increased demand for American flags by those who want to show support for our troops. What they did not anticipate, and what has in fact completely surprised them is a massive demand for the Union Jack. It seems Americans are extremely grateful for Britain's support and contribution in this war, and are flying the British flag as well. There isn't a Union Jack to be found anywhere.

If none of the other Americans have expressed it yet in any of the threads, allow me to be the first. Thank you Great Britain and many thanks to the British people for your support. You are our oldest and closest friends and we can always count on you to do the right thing, and occassionally to knock some sense into us hotheaded Americans.

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 25 2003,16:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If none of the other Americans have expressed it yet in any of the threads, allow me to be the first.  Thank you Great Britain and many thanks to the British people for your support.  You are our oldest and closest friends and we can always count on you to do the right thing, and occassionally to knock some sense into us hotheaded Americans. <span id='postcolor'>

I don't think this can be said enough. I've had a blast with every British soldier and airman that I've ever met. Thank you for being our friends and allies.

ps cricketisstillweirdkthxbai

[Wires 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Mar. 26 2003,11:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ps cricketisstillweirdkthxbai<span id='postcolor'>

Cricket is great especially since we AUstralians kick ass at it   Australia world champions without loss in the world cup  

And our support and naval units as well as our very fearsome SASR are helping you Americans and Brits out as well you know - and don't forget the Polish and I think a few others as well...

[brgnorway 0]

Well, thank you France, Germany and Russia - and many many other nations for protesting against this breach of humanity and international law and order. Many thanks to the people of of almost all european countries - including the british for showing your support for peaceful efforts and your opposition to this madmanship!

[Schoeler 0]

Well, I meant to keep that separate from the politics, and simply thank the English (and the Australians too) for standing shoulder to shoulder with our troops in the face of death, whether they agree with the war or not. The point is, they are there helping our men and women, and their help keeps our men and women alive to return home to their families. Politics aside, that is worth a thank you.

But, if you want to be political, go ahead, though I suggest you do it in the other thread.

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Mar. 25 2003,19:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, thank you France, Germany and Russia - and many many other nations for protesting against this breach of humanity and international law and order. Many thanks to the people of of almost all european countries - including the british for showing your support for peaceful efforts and your opposition to this madmanship!<span id='postcolor'>

What, no China?? lol

Oh ya, you said breach of humanity

-=Die Alive=-

[MrMilli 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Akira @ Mar. 25 2003,22:28)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If Your Are Going To Join The Iraqi Military, Join The Navy<span id='postcolor'>

Excellent!

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 26 2003,01:46)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">But, if you want to be political, go ahead, though I suggest you do it in the other thread.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, my post was a reaction to your highly political post!

I'm aware of the other thread so you don't really have to suggest anything at all!

[Schoeler 0]

I don't want to get into a ridiculuos argument with you, but I'd like you to point out how my thread was "political". It seems I can separate the actions of the troops, from the motivations of governments. If you can't see the difference, I'm not going to try bothering explaining it to you.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 26 2003,02:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It seems I can separate the actions of the troops, from the motivations of governments.  If you can't see the difference, I'm not going to try bothering explaining it to you.

<span id='postcolor'>

Your grattitude and praise of your allies which by the way represent a tool of political will - makes your post political.

Although I suspect you are unable to understand this I'd suggest your praise and grattitude should be reserved for another thread or forum. Last time I checked this thread was about: "Operation I.F. discussion" .

In short it seems you can't separate this thread from your own political motivations! I have to admit I expected more from someone who claims he is a "political major" (or whatever you call it) or a lawstudent?

I rest my case!

[Wires 0]

Yes this thread IS about Operation I.F. in which America and various allies are participating however all the countries you mentioned are NOT. Your post was purly political and pointless however Schoeler simply thanked those that have supported the people on the ground.

Now shut it before this great thread get's locked.

Anyone think those Iraqi boats will get back to the Gulf after the war as part of a new Iraqi Navy?

[Badgerboy 0]

Technically, we Brits call it Operation Telic. Which incidently, I think sounds a hell of a lot better than 'Iraqi Freedom'. Who the hell comes up with these 'politically/media' appropriate names anyway?

[Othin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wires @ Mar. 25 2003,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone think those Iraqi boats will get back to the Gulf after the war as part of a new Iraqi Navy?<span id='postcolor'>

Actually, that's an interesting question. What will happen to frozen Iraqi assets around the world?

They can kiss their fighter aircraft that flew to Iran goodbye. Those have already been integrated into the A.F. there.

The ships in Italy are paid for as far as I know, so I would say yes. It's going to be important to Iraq and to Coalition forces to stand up the Iraqi Navy as quickly as possible to prevent the harrying of ships in the area.

It will be interesting to see how the frozen financial assets are re-integrated into the economy of a post war Iraq. They're going to have to apply it carefully since it will be so unstable in the beginning.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wires @ Mar. 26 2003,02:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Your post was purly political and pointless however Schoeler simply thanked those that have supported the people on the ground.

<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, my post was political - as was schoelers post. To me, gratitude and praise of soldiers taking part in a war I cannot support is provocatev - thus very political.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Now shut it before this great thread get's locked.<span id='postcolor'>

What a mature thing to say!