Oh i sooo want one of these!

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Red Oct @ Jan. 17 2003,05:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what is the difference between the AR-15 bushmaster and the M-16? the AR-15 is supposed to be a civil model of the M-16 correct? i heard that you can find a perfectly good bushmaster for as low as $800 or even $200. would those be good bargans? or should i stay away from those?<span id='postcolor'>

an AR-15 is semi-automatic (Bushmaster actually calls their rifle "XM-15", because "AR-15" is a Colt trademark).

An M-16 is select fire. (full auto, or burst)

And no, you will not find a perfectly good Bushmaster for $200.00 ($800.00 yes, but not $200)

They run for anywhere from $750-$800 up to $1500-$2000 depending on the options

A Bushmaster that was registered, and converted to select fire before 1986 is going to be steeply priced.

[Mister Frag 0]

You can't find a complete Bushmaster rifle for $200, although you can find stripped lower receivers (the part that is actually considered the weapon) for about $200, depending on manufacturer. You would then have to add the parts that make up the trigger group etc., which will cost you about $70 or so, and requires some skill and tools to do correctly.

You then need to add a buttstock, and the upper receiver (barrel, handguards, gas tube, bolt carrier and bolt, sights etc.).

If you want to buy a complete rifle instead, you'll wind up paying about $700 and up, depending on the condition and whether it is a pre-ban or post-ban rifle (the ban in this case is the "Crime Bill" of 1994).

A nice pre-ban rifle can cost upwards of $2000, and that's for a simple semi-automatic rifle. As with legal full-auto weapons, the supply is limited, and prices can only go up. In some states such as California, both pre-ban and post-ban rifles can no longer be sold, manufactured, imported, or transferred, and you'll find that those who have them will take them to their graves.

[madmedic 0]

If you want a post-ban, I would advise just buying a complete rifle...You wont really save any money building one.

(Actually, you wont save much even if you are building on a pre-ban either....building your own rifle is about more than just saving money though)

[ralphwiggum 6]

Mister Frag, may i save a spot in a cemetary where you can be buried with your rifles? so you can RIP with your rifle after your natural life passes away?    

[-TU--33ker 0]

we had tons of old shells, bombs, nades, and igniters lying around in the office. there was a cut out 50kg bomb which was for demonstration. and the had a cut out RPG-18 launcher with a rocket in it. it was used by the NVA (Nationale Volksarmee, the east german army). i was thinking about taking a 8,8cm shell home. but it was too heavy!

[FallenPaladin 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Jan. 17 2003,08:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mister Frag, may i save a spot in a cemetary where you can be buried with your rifles? so you can RIP with your rifle after your natural life passes away?    <span id='postcolor'>

Hey, that`s a great idea!!!

I`ll get myself burried with my katana in my coffin. And when someone opens my grave in a thousand years they`ll think I were a knight

[Renagade 0]

seriously why spend those kind of silly prices on a machine gun or assault rifle when u could get groovy hardware instead.

i remember an article a few years back where they were selling off supersonic bombers for a cheap price,ok u may end up falling out the sky in a fireball but wouldn`t it be so much more fun than having an m60

[-TU--33ker 0]

hehe i've always tought about how nice it would be to drive to school in a M60 tank. i'd leave it on my teacher's parking lot. with the teacher's car crushed under it!

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ Jan. 16 2003,22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want a post-ban, I would advise just buying a complete rifle...You wont really save any money building one.

(Actually, you wont save much even if you are building on a pre-ban either....building your own rifle is about more than just saving money though)<span id='postcolor'>

You can't actually build a pre-ban rifle, you have to buy it. The BATF's position is that in order to qualify as a pre-ban rifle, it had to have been assembled into a complete rifle before the ban took effect, and the rifle had to have been kept complete the entire time afterwards.

Thus, in 1994, you couldn't briefly assemble an upper and lower receiver, proclaim it a legal pre-ban assault rifle, and repeat the procedure with another lower. There are people that have tried selling so-called pre-ban lower receivers, but in reality (or at least the BATF's version of it), there is no such thing.

[SKULLS_Viper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ Jan. 16 2003,02:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SKULLS_Viper @ Jan. 14 2003,05<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmm, I thought it was illegal to own automatic weapons.<span id='postcolor'>

It is, but if you want to own a full auto weapon, you can own one, but you need a special permitt .i.e. for gun collectors, and really high tax.

From what i heard.<span id='postcolor'>

No, you dont need a special permit...

You have to pass a BATF background check, get a sign off from the local Chief Law Enforcement Officer, stating you passed his background check (in most cases), and pay a $200.00 transfer tax.

And you can only buy a machinegun that was built before 1986

The price of machineguns is pretty steep though.

An M16 goes for $5000.00 to $8000.00 and the weapon has to be paid for up front.

(an MP5 goes for around $12000.00)<span id='postcolor'>

Oh, so i guess you dont need a permitte?I just heard a gun expert saying to own a full-auto or military grade weapon, i.e. M16A2, you need a gun collector permitte, or license.

Or it could vary, per state, and/or country though.

[168GRN HPBT 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Llauma @ Jan. 13 2003,23:07)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">

Gibson Les Paul 1957 Custom Black Beauty.

That's what I want...<span id='postcolor'>

####DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL####

[Assault (CAN) 1]

Mr. Frag, you can still get pre-ban uppers though, right? And attach them to a post-ban lower?

If I were in the U.S., I'd get two AR-15 type rifles. One for actual use: target rifle w/ good barrel and all the bells and whistles. And one for a 'if the shit hits the fan' situation. Complete with flash supressor, bayonet lug, an array of pre-ban mags,.........and a file.

Tyler

[Mister Frag 0]

Pre-ban uppers are only legal for use on pre-ban rifles, but you cannot take a pre-ban upper and a pre-ban lower that was never a complete rifle and make a legal assault weapon.

Things like bayonet lugs and flash suppressors are only legal on pre-ban rifles. Features such as these distinguish legal post-ban and pre-ban uppers.

Finally, pre-ban magazines (where local legislation doesn't prohibit their ownership) are legal for use in both pre-ban and post-ban weapons. All high capacity magazines (>10 rounds) manufactured after the ban must be stamped to indicate that they are for law enforcement or government use only. In most states, you can still legally buy pre-ban high capacity magazines, but in places like California (where 1/7th of all Americans reside), the sale, manufacture, importation, transfer etc. of >10 round magazines is illegal. Magazines that you owned prior to the ban are "grandfathered" and can be kept and used legally.

[DarkLight 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 16 2003,00:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (DarkLight @ Jan. 16 2003,09:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually, i once also found a very cool shell on a beach near Normandy...

It's full of rust and there's hard sand attached to it (dunno what it's called), at first i wanted to clean it but that's impossible.  The sand is as strong as a rock, you cannot remove it without damaging the shell.  Now, i'm very happy that i couldn't remove it.  I like old looking shells more than those new good looking ones.  At least you can see that a soldier has once placed this bullet in his gun and fired it...

I also have an american nade (full of rust), a british helmet (with cammo), an american helmet that looks like the soldier

who used it has been banging his head against a wall for one hour , i also have 5 biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig shells (used for tanks or anti-aircraft or something like that, maybe artillery, i have no idea, but the fuckers are big), i have heavy machine gun ammo (about the size of a big hand), i have pistol ammo and normal machine gun ammo, and a couple bullets of a sniper rifle, and i'm gonna buy a scope used by a German sniper soon. (only 15 euros the scope looks really nice, is very clean, can zoom in from x3 to x7, i think it's a nice buy)

I think that's about everything i have from WW2...<span id='postcolor'>

What is the condition of this stuff?  

For god's sake, be careful with old munitions, we don't want to read about you on Yahoo News.<span id='postcolor'>

Most of it is not dangerous, the tanks shells (or whatever they are) have already been shot, it looks like a bullet that has been fired from a normal gun but then a lot bigger. They don't explode.

I am very careful with it, if i'm correct, all my ammo is empty or has been made empty by professionals.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">you should maybe take those old war helmets to a antiques road show to get a estimate on their value. are those bunkers still at normandy? or did they destroy those?

<span id='postcolor'>

DUnno if those helmets are worth a lot, here in Belgium you can buy them at special markets for a rather small amount of money. Same for scopes, mortars, .50s (like in the helicopters), bazookas, helmets, nades, clothes,etc etc

Most of the bunkers are still there, there are some places where the canons are still in the bunkers, aiming towards the sea. You can clearly see that they have recieved some heavy fire, the bunkers are full of holes and some of the canons are full of bulletholes and holes from heavier fire... I got a picture of these canons. I'll show it when the pics are developed...

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 17 2003,23:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ Jan. 16 2003,22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want a post-ban, I would advise just buying a complete rifle...You wont really save any money building one.

(Actually, you wont save much even if you are building on a pre-ban either....building your own rifle is about more than just saving money though)<span id='postcolor'>

You can't actually build a pre-ban rifle, you have to buy it. The BATF's position is that in order to qualify as a pre-ban rifle, it had to have been assembled into a complete rifle before the ban took effect, and the rifle had to have been kept complete the entire time afterwards.

Thus, in 1994, you couldn't briefly assemble an upper and lower receiver, proclaim it a legal pre-ban assault rifle, and repeat the procedure with another lower. There are people that have tried selling so-called pre-ban lower receivers, but in reality (or at least the BATF's version of it), there is no such thing.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes you can,...as long as you buy a pre-ban reciever.

(And as long as you dont live in The Peoples Republic of California)

It absolutely can be a reciever that was assembled, and dis-assembled after the ban

There is no way of enforcing, or proving this aspect of the ludicrous "Crime Bill"...

There is absolutely such a thing as a pre ban lower....there are thousands of them.

I can hook you up with one if you want

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Assault (CAN) @ Jan. 18 2003,00:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Mr. Frag, you can still get pre-ban uppers though, right? And attach them to a post-ban lower?<span id='postcolor'>

Yes, you can get pre-ban uppers... but as MrFrag said, they are only legal for use on pre ban lowers.

And...lol, if you are asking wether you CAN attach it to a post ban lower....phisically, yes....legally, no

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ Jan. 18 2003,15:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 17 2003,23:16)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (madmedic @ Jan. 16 2003,22:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you want a post-ban, I would advise just buying a complete rifle...You wont really save any money building one.

(Actually, you wont save much even if you are building on a pre-ban either....building your own rifle is about more than just saving money though)<span id='postcolor'>

You can't actually build a pre-ban rifle, you have to buy it. The BATF's position is that in order to qualify as a pre-ban rifle, it had to have been assembled into a complete rifle before the ban took effect, and the rifle had to have been kept complete the entire time afterwards.

Thus, in 1994, you couldn't briefly assemble an upper and lower receiver, proclaim it a legal pre-ban assault rifle, and repeat the procedure with another lower. There are people that have tried selling so-called pre-ban lower receivers, but in reality (or at least the BATF's version of it), there is no such thing.<span id='postcolor'>

Yes you can,...as long as you buy a pre-ban reciever.

(And as long as you dont live in The Peoples Republic of California)

It absolutely can be a reciever that was assembled, and dis-assembled after the ban

There is no way of enforcing, or proving this aspect of the ludicrous "Crime Bill"...

There is absolutely such a thing as a pre ban lower....there are thousands of them.

I can hook you up with one if you want :D<span id='postcolor'>

I'm sorry madmedic, but you are wrong about that. There is no such thing as a pre-ban lower receiver that can legally be assembled into an assault weapon after the 1994 "Crime Bill" went into law. Pay particular attention to section O10 below.

From http://atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#o

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(O1) What restrictions does Federal law impose on semiautomatic assault weapons?

It is generally unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess semiautomatic assault weapons after September 13, 1994, the effective date of the law. See the exceptions listed in Question O5. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 1)]

(05) What exceptions from the prohibitions on semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices are provided in the law?

Exceptions are provided for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices -

(1) lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment;

(2) manufactured for, transferred to, or possessed by governmental entities or law enforcement officers employed by governmental entities for official use;

(3) transferred to licensees maintaining on-site security at a nuclear power plant required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;

(4) transferred to law enforcement officers by the officer's agency upon the officer's retirement; and

(5) manufactured, transferred, or possessed by licensed manufacturers or licensed importers for the purposes of testing or experimentation as authorized by ATF.

Ammunition feeding devices having a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition that were manufactured on or before September 13, 1994, are excluded from the definition of "large capacity ammunition feeding device" and, therefore, are not subject to the prohibitions. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 2), (v)( 4), (w)( 2) and (w)( 3)]

(O10) If a person is in possession of a frame or receiver for a semiautomatic assault weapon on the date of enactment, may the person acquire the rest of the parts and assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon?

No. It is unlawful to make such weapon after the law's effective date. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 1)] <span id='postcolor'>

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 19 2003,02:14)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'm sorry madmedic, but you are wrong about that. There is no such thing as a pre-ban lower receiver that can legally be assembled into an assault weapon after the 1994 "Crime Bill" went into law. Pay particular attention to section O10 below.<span id='postcolor'>

Im sorry Mister Frag,...but you mis-understand that law

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(O1) What restrictions does Federal law impose on semiautomatic assault weapons?

It is generally unlawful for a person to manufacture, transfer, or possess semiautomatic assault weapons after September 13, 1994, the effective date of the law. See the exceptions listed in Question O5. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 1)]

(05) What exceptions from the prohibitions on semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices are provided in the law?

Exceptions are provided for semiautomatic assault weapons and large capacity ammunition feeding devices -

(1) lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment;

(2) manufactured for, transferred to, or possessed by governmental entities or law enforcement officers employed by governmental entities for official use;

(3) transferred to licensees maintaining on-site security at a nuclear power plant required by Federal law, or possession by an employee or contractor of such licensee on-site for such purposes or off-site for purposes of licensee-authorized training or transportation of nuclear materials;

(4) transferred to law enforcement officers by the officer's agency upon the officer's retirement; and

(5) manufactured, transferred, or possessed by licensed manufacturers or licensed importers for the purposes of testing or experimentation as authorized by ATF.

Ammunition feeding devices having a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition that were manufactured on or before September 13, 1994, are excluded from the definition of "large capacity ammunition feeding device" and, therefore, are not subject to the prohibitions. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 2), (v)( 4), (w)( 2) and (w)( 3)]

(O10) If a person is in possession of a frame or receiver for a semiautomatic assault weapon on the date of enactment, may the person acquire the rest of the parts and assemble a complete semiautomatic assault weapon?

No. It is unlawful to make such weapon after the law's effective date. [18 U. S. C. 922( v)( 1)] <span id='postcolor'>

Section (O10),  refers to a reciever that was NOT assembled into a complete weapon before the ban.

A reciever that was assembled into a complete weapon or sold as a complete weapon before the ban...and then un-assembled...is a legal preban.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(1) lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment;<span id='postcolor'>(a reciever that was assembled into a rifle before the date of enactment, constitutes an "assault weapon" that was "lawfully possessed on or before the date of enactment")

A reciever that was purchased before the ban, but was NOT assembled into a complete rifle...is not allowed to be assembled into preban configuration.

There is, however...no way to prove you are guilty of this.

[Mister Frag 0]

The BATFs position is that if it wasn't a complete weapon the entire time, it is no longer a legal semi-automatic assault weapon.

There is a thread devoted to the subject of not retaining legal SAW status when the upper receiver is removed or the lower receiver stripped here on AR15.com.

[Milkman 1]

Do they still sell TEC-9s or were they banned for being too easy to convert to full auto?? And what about a Glock 18? Those things were fully automatic pistols from what i can remember.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 19 2003,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The BATFs position is that if it wasn't a complete weapon the entire time, it is no longer a legal semi-automatic assault weapon.

There is a thread devoted to the subject of not retaining legal SAW status when the upper receiver is removed or the lower receiver stripped  here on AR15.com.<span id='postcolor'>

Well,...first off, its nice to see a fellow AR15.COM member on this board.

My point is this:

If you have a reciever with a serial # that is preban, There is no way to prove, or dis-prove your rifle was assembled before or after the ban (except in the case of rifles that were sold as complete obviously)

Actually, to be more precise...there is no way to prove a reciever was not assembled into a rifle before the ban, and at time of transfer.

It is not illegal to replace your upper reciever, or to have multiple upper recievers to swap out on your preban rifle.

It is not illegal to change the stock, or any other part of your rifle.

There is no way prove you did not simply "swap" uppers, after you were the owner.

The BATF "interpretation" may say you have broken the law, but they can not prove it.

It is a "gray area"

(And, if you look hard enough...you will find "BATF Interpretations" that contradict each other)

If you buy a "preban" serial #ed reciever, and build a rifle using "preban" features....you will be safe

and the only people who are charged with "pre/post ban" violations, are people who are already being prosecuted for something else...And in those cases, it is folks who have preban features on "postban" serial #ed recievers.

BTW,...I noticed in your profile that you are in California...

I would immagine that I too, would be more concerned about this topic, and its "gray areas" if I lived there

[Mister Frag 0]

Well, yeah, here in California, we have several bans, not just the one of '94 -- the laws are far more restrictive than they are at the Federal level.

I've got a number of AR rifles (all of the Bushmasters), and like any sane Californian, I'll eventually move, or take my toys to my grave with me.

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 19 2003,06:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I've got a number of AR rifles (all of the Bushmasters), and like any sane Californian, I'll eventually move, or take my toys to my grave with me.<span id='postcolor'>

grave! grave! grave!

make sure you grease them up nice so i can dig them up and ...eh, never mind.

[madmedic 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ Jan. 19 2003,06:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well, yeah, here in California, we have several bans, not just the one of '94 -- the laws are far more restrictive than they are at the Federal level.

I've got a number of AR rifles (all of the Bushmasters), and like any sane Californian, I'll eventually move, or take my toys to my grave with me.<span id='postcolor'>

What really sucks, is the fact that the sunset of the 94 ban (in 2004) if left to die peacefully, and not replaced by another ban will not help you guys in California at all.

C'mon over here to Florida....we can compare gun collections, and do some shooting