dis [CTI,TvT,CooP] Dissension

[kremator 1065]

Hi @genesis92x.  Been playtesting (and enjoying) v1.2  No lag anymore (yay) and action just as intense (double yay).

 

Just noticed an issue (nto sure IF it is Arma3 or Dissension however) - I was clearing a grid when the grass around me went in deep shade (the edges were square!) when I cleared the square is stayed in shade until I moved away then it went back to normal light colour.

 

Still seeing some troops stationary after some time.  Wasnt able to go over to them to check IF their lack of movement was becuase they were wounded or in a static or just bloody minded !

[genesis92x 810]

19 hours ago, loopdk said:

We are!!!

 

But we are working on a UK version

 

 

3cb mods

tfar 

and ace if we can make it work

I don't know much about ACE - but if you tell me what you need I can fix it for the next version. I know there are a few conflicts with keys. But not sure of everything.

 

11 hours ago, kremator said:

Hi @genesis92x.  Been playtesting (and enjoying) v1.2  No lag anymore (yay) and action just as intense (double yay).

 

Just noticed an issue (nto sure IF it is Arma3 or Dissension however) - I was clearing a grid when the grass around me went in deep shade (the edges were square!) when I cleared the square is stayed in shade until I moved away then it went back to normal light colour.

 

Still seeing some troops stationary after some time.  Wasnt able to go over to them to check IF their lack of movement was becuase they were wounded or in a static or just bloody minded !

That's...an interesting bug... I will keep that in mind, though I haven't see it before. If a troop isn't a static, or a "special unit" they will eventually be deleted - I hope!

[kremator 1065]

One thng that is a little annoying (that I hope you can fix) is ... I get money and exp when in a vehicle with my AI (when they kill a baddy) but if I use my team as infantry I don't get any cash or exp.  Sure, if _I_ kill a baddy I get the exp, but is there a fix, as it does cost to make the AI ... I'm happy for them to be much more expensive IF I get money and exp for their kills (as I am leading them after all!)  If they were much more expensive you'd think twice about losing them.

 

Back to playing :)

 

TOP TIP ladies and gents ... if you see 'a bomb has been planted' message then rush back to your base!  I've now lost 2 games because I didn't take it seriously !  @genesis92xare some AI tasked with returning to the base when you get overrun ?

 

Last thing ... I'm sure that the AI are breaking the Geneva convention ... if you are incapacited they CONTINUE to fire until you definately ARE dead - would it be possible for AI to not fire at incapacitated enemies (ie ME when I'm downed - at least then I'd get a chance to see if the Dissension revive function worked !!)

 

EDIT: Further playtesting (this time as OPFOR) - our base was overrun by baddies and they managed to blow up the barracks!!  The commander SHOULD have prioritised rebuilding it, but didn't (building a static bay instead).  Not seen the new barracks put up - 30 mins now.

[Blind Willie 0]

Hi @genesis92x, first of all, ive got to say this is great work! I can see so much potential, I'm loving it! some of the moments it gives you, thank you.

 

I am however finding every so often the enemy Ai is freezing for up to 60 sec's maybe more! ive only noticed it since v1.2. ive recorded a short clip of the gameplay if you want me to send it?  

 

No doubt it is something on my end/server, I just wanted to let you know my experience.

 

Cheers Bud  

[kremator 1065]

Hi @Blind Willie.  That does sound like a server being flooded with traffic.  Do you run a launcher or commandline for your dedi ?

[Blind Willie 0]

4 hours ago, kremator said:

Hi @Blind Willie.  That does sound like a server being flooded with traffic.  Do you run a launcher or commandline for your dedi ?

HI, @kremator all ive done is put the .pbo  in the mpmission folder on my rented server, then set it to play the mission in the server.cfg settings! no mods.

Then I find the server through the browser in Arma 3 to join.

 

I have just wiped the server with a fresh install of Arma and tried it again on Tanoa map. poor results again, in fact, worse! it's as tho all the Ai on the map just freeze! or run on the spot, apart from the ai members in my squad.

 

[kremator 1065]

Hmmm that is wierd.  I used TADST launcher for my dedi ... really useful for changing all server parameters.  On the Altis version, I get 47-48FPS (on server) almost constantly, with very little rubberbanding (if at all)

[damsous 329]

20 hours ago, Blind Willie said:

HI, @kremator all ive done is put the .pbo  in the mpmission folder on my rented server, then set it to play the mission in the server.cfg settings! no mods.

Then I find the server through the browser in Arma 3 to join.

 

I have just wiped the server with a fresh install of Arma and tried it again on Tanoa map. poor results again, in fact, worse! it's as tho all the Ai on the map just freeze! or run on the spot, apart from the ai members in my squad.

 

Its because your server is too weak for this mission, the AI stop moving (queue) to avoid crash, for exemple a 2 thread dedicated server (1 thread for the server the other one for a Headlessclient) you will got the same issue up to 120 AI.

 

I never try to host this mission for the moment so i don't know if you can limit the amount of spawned AI, just try with a lower number if its possible.

[Blind Willie 0]

On 9/6/2018 at 11:27 PM, kremator said:

Hmmm that is wierd.  I used TADST launcher for my dedi ... really useful for changing all server parameters.  On the Altis version, I get 47-48FPS (on server) almost constantly, with very little rubberbanding (if at all)

 

On 9/7/2018 at 6:13 PM, damsous said:

Its because your server is too weak for this mission, the AI stop moving (queue) to avoid crash, for exemple a 2 thread dedicated server (1 thread for the server the other one for a Headlessclient) you will got the same issue up to 120 AI.

 

I never try to host this mission for the moment so i don't know if you can limit the amount of spawned AI, just try with a lower number if its possible.

 

After I posted the other night I did a fresh install running Altis instead and I got a good 45min run in before it started again, I also get very good fps too! that's my reason for hiring a server to run my missions on.

I'm thinking @damsous  is right about it being too weak! it is a 30player server but I only play single player.  Ive run Antistasi on it a few times without issues, but I much prefer dissension.

Nice one to both of you for the suggestions!

[damsous 329]

22 hours ago, Blind Willie said:

After I posted the other night I did a fresh install running Altis instead and I got a good 45min run in before it started again, I also get very good fps too! that's my reason for hiring a server to run my missions on.

I'm thinking @damsous  is right about it being too weak! it is a 30player server but I only play single player.  Ive run Antistasi on it a few times without issues, but I much prefer dissension.

Nice one to both of you for the suggestions!

I think your server run on a single thread, thats why you got good server FPS but the AI stop moving, a mission like this with 1 more thread the AI will moving but server FPS will decrease... Thats why its better to get 1 thread for the server the other one for the Headless, you will got the same result as 2 thread with better server FPS.

 

You can try this, http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26093

its a caching script that should not breack the mission, there a mod and script version, so you can load the mod on your server/client, but don't forget to add filepatching=2 in your server parameter and put the zbe_cache inside userconfig folder, you should set a higher distance for caching on this mission (2000-3000) for vehicle and AI.

[Blind Willie 0]

3 hours ago, damsous said:

I think your server run on a single thread, thats why you got good server FPS but the AI stop moving, a mission like this with 1 more thread the AI will moving but server FPS will decrease... Thats why its better to get 1 thread for the server the other one for the Headless, you will got the same result as 2 thread with better server FPS.

 

You can try this, http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=26093

its a caching script that should not breack the mission, there a mod and script version, so you can load the mod on your server/client, but don't forget to add filepatching=2 in your server parameter and put the zbe_cache inside userconfig folder, you should set a higher distance for caching on this mission (2000-3000) for vehicle and AI.

Thanks, damsous I appreciate your knowledge. I will definitely check out the link, cheers mate.

[damsous 329]

I give a try to host this mission with a HC the guerilla not spawn, i have been attacked by few blufor paratrooper...

 

I can't conquer the grid or town (Remaing 1) the guerilla wont spawn, i follow the commander objective (material 6 at 500m), just afk few hour and nothing happen, server and headless are idle.

 

There is something special to do for activate the sector ?

[damsous 329]

Ok i found the issue with sector not initialized, thats a mistake inside the mission parameter, its look like RHS its Vanilla and Vanilla its RHS, so i play vanilla and i try with RHS parameter and that work.

 

Edit that not only that there something wrong with mission parameter, if something is changed that breack the mission

[damsous 329]

This parameter breack the mission if its disabled work if enabled.

Enable Pause Capable Game: No Players = Paused AI

[velzevul 32]

4 hours ago, damsous said:

This parameter breack the mission if its disabled work if enabled.

Enable Pause Capable Game: No Players = Paused AI

 

confirming it. if this param "disabled" greenfor AI doesnt spawns at all.

[genesis92x 810]

On 9/10/2018 at 7:35 AM, damsous said:

Ok i found the issue with sector not initialized, thats a mistake inside the mission parameter, its look like RHS its Vanilla and Vanilla its RHS, so i play vanilla and i try with RHS parameter and that work.

 

Edit that not only that there something wrong with mission parameter, if something is changed that breack the mission

 

On 9/10/2018 at 8:49 AM, damsous said:

This parameter breack the mission if its disabled work if enabled.

Enable Pause Capable Game: No Players = Paused AI

 

On 9/10/2018 at 1:14 PM, velzevul said:

 

confirming it. if this param "disabled" greenfor AI doesnt spawns at all.

 

Wow. I feel like I left for one week! Thanks for the posts guys, very nice find on this bug. I will take a look into it.

 

And...yeah...unfortunately the mission is fairly demanding...this does make me sad. I would recommend utilizing a headless client with the mission with server restarts in-between games.

[damsous 329]

I have done few try on my side its better to use a multithreaded server (2core or more) than 1 single threaded server + 1 HC if you want play more than 2 hour without restart, its like the Headless not cleaning correctly the dead thing but its not a mission issue the HC are like this i experience the same thing on a 100% BI function (spawning...) HC its good but that require restart more often

[velzevul 32]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:49 PM, damsous said:

This parameter breack the mission if its disabled work if enabled.

Enable Pause Capable Game: No Players = Paused AI

 

found fix for it. we need to swap 3-rd and 4-th lines in fn_PAUSE.sqf.

sorry, i was wrong. it doesn't fix that problem.

Edited December 5, 2019 by velzevul

[shplamana 3]

My buds and I have been playing this mission for about a week or so now and this is by far the best CTI mission we've ever played.

 

But there's a few nagging issues that tend to get in the way of really enjoying this.

 

• Bugs
  • Units get stuck in a downed but not dead phase. They're still alive, shout out enemy positions, but can't move and aren't targeted.
    • This has a knock-on effect of keeping a grid alive and locking up the game progression
  • Units passing through unconquered grids on the way to take a town, cause a gridlock, making the town unconquerable until the grid(s) are taken care of
    • This one is easily recognizable by the progress bar at the top showing 1 remaining and having a full bar, but no enemies spawn
    • Testing with the setting for how many towns can be active doesn't free up this gridlock and it halts progress from being made
  • Commanders assign towns/grids that can't be conquered
    • This is usually the result of the previous two listed issues
  • Re-arm doesn't refill all magazines on vehicles
    • We specifically see this with Commander Turrets on vehicles, which normally have a magazine loaded and a spare, but rearming only refills the loaded mag and never gives the spare/reload
    • We've seen a few times where the various cannon loads aren't refilled, e.g. HE-T is reloaded, but not APFSDS-T or HEAT, etc.
    • subsequent attempts are rearming doesn't result in the missing ammo being refilled and wasted cash
  • Units steal locked vehicles
    • We had a number of artillery pieces back at a base locked while we were taking a town, came back and they were missing. Later on we found the AI driving them around.
  • Vehicles are listed under different categories for different prices
    • A few armored vehicles, like the Gorgon and Rhino are listed under Cars and Light Armor, for hugely different prices
  • Hostile units spawn on top of you in an AO
    • We have a consistent problem with where we're taking a town or grid, and the garrisoned force will spawn directly on top of us
    • Sometimes the units also won't spawn for several minutes
    • Defending fortified bases/bunkers is especially bad, as we had one where there were over 100 units remaining, and they would spawn right inside the bunker and shoot you in the back
    • This might be a QoL improvement to have all units spawn at once

 

• QoL Improvements
  • Sell/trade vehicles back
    • Logging off the server and losing any hardware that you've accumulated is a real kick in the nads
  • Only display the vehicles that are available to be purchased
    • It seems like not having the light/heavy factory doesn't remove the vehicles from the listings
    • Same for airfields, etc.
  • Commanders assigning a town or grid should lock that objective in to prevent gridlock
    • This should help alleviate a few issues listed above

 

As we play more, I'll definitely be coming back here to provide more feedback.

 

This mission is awesome, I hope you can really take it to the next level with a few fixes/tweaks.

[velzevul 32]

6 hours ago, shplamana said:

this is by far the best CTI mission we've ever played.

let me join the above. one of the best, definitely. :)

 

6 hours ago, shplamana said:

Units get stuck in a downed but not dead phase. They're still alive, shout out enemy positions, but can't move and aren't targeted.

probably, it is caused by custom reviving system. as i playtested without it enabled, i didn't encounter such problems.

 

7 hours ago, shplamana said:

Testing with the setting for how many towns can be active doesn't free up this gridlock and it halts progress from being made

please, who can explain? is this parameter affects only number of towns activated? or grids too?

 

7 hours ago, shplamana said:

Re-arm doesn't refill all magazines on vehicles 

Units steal locked vehicles 

Vehicles are listed under different categories for different prices

confirm

 

7 hours ago, shplamana said:

Hostile units spawn on top of you in an AO

yes, this is pain. :) Genesis92x, is it possible to spawn "garrisoned" troops as reinforcement, that is coming into activated grid from nearest town (if their areas overlaps), or from neighbouring nonactivated grid? and in "grid activation" case to spawn only small patrol, that calls others, when being attacked.

and more about grids capturing. this works well when the grids are taken away for the first time, from the greenfor. but when grid is frontline between red and blue, and is heavily contested by, capturing conditions looks unperfect. e.g.: we lost grid because all the units from the "garrison" pool were killed, even though almost all the attackers were also killed and there was stayed plenty of units from mine and other 2 AI squads.

 

8 hours ago, shplamana said:

 

• Sell/trade vehicles back
  • Logging off the server and losing any hardware that you've accumulated is a real kick in the nads

there is structure available in player's building menu, that allow to sell vehicles. didnt tested it yet, and don't know if they bring down the price when you try to sell them broken-down cars with bullet holes. :)

[genesis92x 810]

On 9/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, shplamana said:

My buds and I have been playing this mission for about a week or so now and this is by far the best CTI mission we've ever played.

 

But there's a few nagging issues that tend to get in the way of really enjoying this.

 

• Bugs
  • Units get stuck in a downed but not dead phase. They're still alive, shout out enemy positions, but can't move and aren't targeted.
    • This has a knock-on effect of keeping a grid alive and locking up the game progression
  • Units passing through unconquered grids on the way to take a town, cause a gridlock, making the town unconquerable until the grid(s) are taken care of
    • This one is easily recognizable by the progress bar at the top showing 1 remaining and having a full bar, but no enemies spawn
    • Testing with the setting for how many towns can be active doesn't free up this gridlock and it halts progress from being made
  • Commanders assign towns/grids that can't be conquered
    • This is usually the result of the previous two listed issues
  • Re-arm doesn't refill all magazines on vehicles
    • We specifically see this with Commander Turrets on vehicles, which normally have a magazine loaded and a spare, but rearming only refills the loaded mag and never gives the spare/reload
    • We've seen a few times where the various cannon loads aren't refilled, e.g. HE-T is reloaded, but not APFSDS-T or HEAT, etc.
    • subsequent attempts are rearming doesn't result in the missing ammo being refilled and wasted cash
  • Units steal locked vehicles
    • We had a number of artillery pieces back at a base locked while we were taking a town, came back and they were missing. Later on we found the AI driving them around.
  • Vehicles are listed under different categories for different prices
    • A few armored vehicles, like the Gorgon and Rhino are listed under Cars and Light Armor, for hugely different prices
  • Hostile units spawn on top of you in an AO
    • We have a consistent problem with where we're taking a town or grid, and the garrisoned force will spawn directly on top of us
    • Sometimes the units also won't spawn for several minutes
    • Defending fortified bases/bunkers is especially bad, as we had one where there were over 100 units remaining, and they would spawn right inside the bunker and shoot you in the back
    • This might be a QoL improvement to have all units spawn at once

 

• QoL Improvements
  • Sell/trade vehicles back
    • Logging off the server and losing any hardware that you've accumulated is a real kick in the nads
  • Only display the vehicles that are available to be purchased
    • It seems like not having the light/heavy factory doesn't remove the vehicles from the listings
    • Same for airfields, etc.
  • Commanders assigning a town or grid should lock that objective in to prevent gridlock
    • This should help alleviate a few issues listed above

 

As we play more, I'll definitely be coming back here to provide more feedback.

 

This mission is awesome, I hope you can really take it to the next level with a few fixes/tweaks.

Thanks for the report, I will take a look into what I can do during my weekend (Sunday - Tuesday) for addressing some of these issues. Might as well make a video out of it. Especially with such a lovely formatted bug report :D Very helpful - I do appreciate that.

 

A few things that I thought were going over:

 

Units passing through unconquered grids on the way to take a town, cause a gridlock, making the town unconquerable until the grid(s) are taken care of

I think I might need to completely re-do the grid/town system - Grids do not count toward the total number of ACTIVE towns. However, they do not seem to spawn reliably either.

 

We had a number of artillery pieces back at a base locked while we were taking a town, came back and they were missing. Later on we found the AI driving them around.

I really find this one funny...although I have also noticed this issue. This is more related to Vcom AI, and I need to find a better way to prevent AI from stealing vehicles that are player owned.

 

Vehicles are listed under different categories for different prices

I never noticed this...huh...that should be a simple fix.

 

Hostile units spawn on top of you in an AO

Town spawning is tricky, and I might have to make it more into a "wave" system - I am not sure. Currently it works like this

1) Towns will utilize a limited number of buildings to spawn AI from first. Once all towns have spawned the max number of AI they can handle, it will begin spawning AI in the center of the town. Before it was setup where the AI would spawn randomly AROUND the town and attack in - creating a frustrating experience for players on the edge of an AO and a weird "We are always surrounded" feeling. 

2) Spawning all the AI in at once is not feasible as some towns can have up to 100 units. That's way too many AI at once.

 

This creates an interesting design puzzle that needs to have an eloquent solution - finding proper AI spawning points has proven to be relatively difficult. I am beginning to consider even more "arcade-y" option, with 3-4 preset spawn points in a town for AI (randomly chosen every assault) so players know exactly where AI will spawn from, with a reduction of secondary objectives being placed directly onto a the center of the town, where AI like to spawn.

 

Sell/trade vehicles back

This is implemented, but simply under the player base structures. Although adding this option to the light/heavy factory would not be a bad idea.

 

Only display the vehicles that are available to be purchased

It seems like not having the light/heavy factory doesn't remove the vehicles from the listings

This should be do-able. Currently, when you go to purchase and aircraft without an airfield it will not let you spawn one in.

 

Commanders assigning a town or grid should lock that objective in to prevent gridlock
The commander targeting system needs another improvement. Potentially even force locking down other towns from being activated until the current objective is taken. Allowing only 1 primary objective at a time per side would drastically reduce CPU/GPU strain, and allow players/AI to focus on one AO at a time. I'm not the biggest fan of this option, but it does resolve many issues.

 

 

 

On 9/20/2018 at 1:42 AM, velzevul said:

let me join the above. one of the best, definitely. :)

 

probably, it is caused by custom reviving system. as i playtested without it enabled, i didn't encounter such problems.

 

please, who can explain? is this parameter affects only number of towns activated? or grids too?

 

confirm

 

yes, this is pain. :) Genesis92x, is it possible to spawn "garrisoned" troops as reinforcement, that is coming into activated grid from nearest town (if their areas overlaps), or from neighbouring nonactivated grid? and in "grid activation" case to spawn only small patrol, that calls others, when being attacked.

and more about grids capturing. this works well when the grids are taken away for the first time, from the greenfor. but when grid is frontline between red and blue, and is heavily contested by, capturing conditions looks unperfect. e.g.: we lost grid because all the units from the "garrison" pool were killed, even though almost all the attackers were also killed and there was stayed plenty of units from mine and other 2 AI squads.

 

 

please, who can explain? is this parameter affects only number of towns activated? or grids too?

Only the towns :D

 

Genesis92x, is it possible to spawn "garrisoned" troops as reinforcement, that is coming into activated grid from nearest town (if their areas overlaps), or from neighbouring nonactivated grid? and in "grid activation" case to spawn only small patrol, that calls others, when being attacked.

and more about grids capturing. this works well when the grids are taken away for the first time, from the greenfor. but when grid is frontline between red and blue, and is heavily contested by, capturing conditions looks unperfect. e.g.: we lost grid because all the units from the "garrison" pool were killed, even though almost all the attackers were also killed and there was stayed plenty of units from mine and other 2 AI squads.

 

Are you suggesting towns forces actively moving out to support grid forces if they are available? I would have to think about that. I also agree that the capturing conditions are flawed - I think redoing the entire capture system during my weekend is warranted.

[velzevul 32]

1 hour ago, genesis92x said:

Vehicles are listed under different categories for different prices

I never noticed this...huh...that should be a simple fix.

 

um,.. if you, anyway, will look at array sorter, maybe it also will simple solution for blacklisting all vanilla stuff (equip, vehs, weapons, statics), when RHS gametype chosen?

 

1 hour ago, genesis92x said:

Are you suggesting towns forces actively moving out to support grid forces if they are available?

 

not, actually. it is similar problem as for towns - enemies spawns in front of players, that is immersive-breaking. especially this hurts the eyes at flat landscapes (Almera desert, etc). i just tried to suggest some way to spawn AI not in line of sight of player.

 

[[DR]Alex 18]

Great job with Dissention, keep updated! Personal test server up, location Europe.

 

Server name: Test Dissension -RHS-ACE-TFAR- veteran
Address: 144.76.140.245:2302
Server version: 184144923
Required game version: 1.84.0
 

[genesis92x 810]

Thank you :) I will be looking to update the way towns work shortly.

 

I am thinking only 1 active resistance town at a time (per side) and 1 active enemy town at a time. Hopefully this will fix a lot of issues.

[VariousArtist 19]

I have to agree with the others that the current grid-capturing and AI spawning isnt well-implemented and killing the immersion. I dont even understand why each grid should be fight for with such high numbers of soldiers anyway? Maybe the whole progress of the Dissension CTI should maybe more about hotspots and critical areas instead of reducing each kilometer into a slog of a shooting gallery?

Overall Dissension currently feels too much like a "wave shooter", with enemies from all kind of random directions, instead of a military operation. (no clear AOs, no frontlines, no angles of attacks, no proper bases, enemies spawning all around you, airborne forces plopping up over your head, tanks spawning behind you).

 

Another massive immersion breaker is the constant forced teleportation. Buying a vehicle, auto-teleport, leaving your AI buddies behind. Yesterday I was suddenly teleported to the AAC airfield (there was a chopper next to the point i was ported too. No clue what was going on). Just with my single AI buddy and forced against enemy spawn tickets of 50 enemy infantries. No other friendlies around. Dafuq?

 

Sorry when I might sound too negative! Thats not intended. I respect the amount of work you put into developing a new, unique take on the CTI concept, but sadly the current concept doesnt seem to work out very well. In developer speak, the gameloop lacks juicyness. I think some core concepts need to go back to the drawing board.

 

Question, whats the advanced barracks good for? You cant spawn there and cant recruit.