The Iraq Thread

[Guest]

CNN interview with Chirac

Lots of sweet words proclaiming love and friendship to America. You be the judge of how sincere it is

[ralphwiggum 6]

bah! following the great tradition of De Gaulles, he is waving his hands up in the air as the she-man Amanpour launches assault!

on the serious note, he sure has some delicate way of spinning things around, but so obvious.

[bn880 5]

I was wondering why so many U.S. citizens, and U.S. administration inluding bush seem to be carving away at the French only? Why not take some hits at Germany, the Russians and Chinese? They are just as opposed to the war effort.

Actually I think I know, it's easiest economically to challange France. No problem, after all, Americans actually import culture from France, we all know Americans don't want any more of that.

[SirLoins 0]

Very soon, like it or not, Saddam will have chosen war as the last option.

We will soon have the advantage of discussing this issue with the advantage of hindsight.

One side will have bragging rights to say "I told you so."

I hope its the anti-war crowd.

I hope they find absolutely nothing hidden away in the bowels of Saddams cities and countrysides.

I hope the US and it's allies are proven wrong.

I hope you guys are right and I and all the other "warmongers" are wrong. God I hope you are right.

I will be the first to admit defeat.

I will be the first in line to ask, "what can I do to make it right."

I will eat crow, and humble myself before all of you if I am proven wrong.

God I hope all the little doves are right and I am wrong, because if I am right and WMD's are allowed to get into the hands of terrorist willing to use them, then we all loose, not just the US, but we all loose.

I'll take the chance of being humiliated before this crowd before I take the chance of letting this fiasco of UN inspectors and a spinless UN, willing to do nothing, continue any longer.

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SirLoins @ Mar. 17 2003,04:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><span id='postcolor'>

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Very soon, like it or not, Saddam will have chosen war as the last option.<span id='postcolor'>

No he won't - you've already done that!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">We will soon have the advantage of discussing this issue with the advantage of hindsight.

One side will have bragging rights to say "I told you so."

I hope its the anti-war crowd.

I hope they find absolutely nothing hidden away in the bowels of Saddams cities and countrysides.  

I hope the US and it's allies are proven wrong.    

I hope you guys are right and I and all the other "warmongers" are wrong.  God I hope you are right.

I will be the first to admit defeat.  

I will be the first in line to ask, "what can I do to make it right."

I will eat crow, and humble myself before all of you if I am proven wrong.  

God I hope all the little doves are right and I am wrong, because if I am right and WMD's are allowed to get into the hands of terrorist willing to use them, then we all loose, not just the US, but we all loose.

I'll take the chance of being humiliated before this crowd before I take the chance of letting this fiasco of UN inspectors and a spinless UN, willing to do nothing, continue any longer.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah, bla bla bla.....

[OxPecker 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Mar. 17 2003,05:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, bla bla bla.....<span id='postcolor'>

I have to agree with you there brg, one of the great nonsensical posts in this thread.

Was there a point to it?

[brgnorway 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (OxPecker @ Mar. 17 2003,05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (brgnorway @ Mar. 17 2003,05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yeah, bla bla bla.....<span id='postcolor'>

I have to agree with you there brg, one of the great nonsensical posts in this thread.

Was there a point to it?<span id='postcolor'>

I honestly don't know  

However, my point is that I couldn't care less about who's humiliated or not! This conflict is not about who looses their face - but who is going to kill or get killed!

I mean some people obviously believe in ifs and that could justify anything really!

[FSPilot 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Better to err on the side of caution. No, we don't know what Iraq will do in the future, but we do know that attacking Iraq now will kill civilians.<span id='postcolor'>

Civilians Saddam Hussein has killed - 1,500,000

Civilians killed in the Gulf war (according to Iraq even) - 2,278

That's 1/658th of the total number of people killed by Saddam. Who do you think the bigger threat is again?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Whatever FS...<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah there's a lot of "whatever" flying around this thread.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">You said my sources or me in special is biased, but didn´t come up with any proof to show that.<span id='postcolor'>

Proof? It's my opinion.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">To answer that question about the airplane boneyard, it is quite impressive. There are intact aircraft from every era dating back to pre-World War II up until today's planes kept there. We just got some B1B's in the other day. If you ever visit Tucson, take the tour. They drive you around on a little cart and you can get off and check out any plane you want.

The reason they keep the aircraft there is in case of another world war. America will have a variety of ready to go aircraft in case the shit hits the fan. Also, they use them for spare parts and refurbish some and sell them off to foreign nations. The newer planes are all tarped up and sealed airtight with plastic to protect the engines and electronics. An interesting sidenote: A local pilot recently bought an F-4 Phantom from the boneyard. He had to get Congress' permission because it is illegal to sell a Mach 2 capable plane in the U.S. Hes currently upgrading the engines and electronics. Gonna be an expensive plane to fly though.

Also interesting is that a lot of the A-10's and F-16's that were stored in the yard have disappeared in the last month, which leads me to believe the U.S. is getting them ready in case of a conflict with the North Koreans. Lets hope not.<span id='postcolor'>

Do you know if they give tours? I would love to walk around that place, but I doubt they'd let me do it with all the terrorist stuff. Just being so close to such historic planes would just make my day.

[FallenPaladin 0]

I`m not going to post in this topic anymore.

We have two groups on the one hand the "hurray-we-go-to-war-and-kill-an-evil-dictator-and-free-the-whole-world-and-everythin

g-becomes-nice-and-McDonalds" and on the other hands the "we-don`t-want-war-because-it-will-lead-to-no-good-like-seen-before-so-many-times-in-

history-especially-in-the-arabic-area" bashing each other. That`s no dialogue anymore, it`s just saying: "Your statements are wrong, I have the right opinion!" and that repeatedly for a lot of pages...  

That`s FallenPaladin live from Germany, also known as EurowimpPaladin. We`ll discuss the TBA`s next year`s war next year  

And all that mess started with Paul Wolfowitz in the Reagan time...    

[Tex -USMC- 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ Mar. 17 2003,07:55)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">it`s just saying: "Your statements are wrong, I have the right opinion!" and that repeatedly for a lot of pages...  <span id='postcolor'>

Shit, I coulda told you this would happen around page 50

[Guest]

Well, looks like there's going to be a war anytime now, so we'll have some other things to debate.

One thing that I read now that just made me smile (although it's really sad):

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CNN @ ,,,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At a press conference following the Azores summit, President Bush made his frustration with France clear.

"We have an expression in Texas that says, 'Show your cards'," he said.

"France has shown its card. Now we have to see tomorrow what that card meant."

<span id='postcolor'>

Kennedy would have quoted a classical writer. Bush Sr. would have quoted Thomas Jefferson or some other American ikon. Clinton would have made a humanitarian appeal. What do we get from W? A poker reference! It's like having Homer frickin' Simpson in the White House

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 17 2003,08:08)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (CNN @ ,,,)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">At a press conference following the Azores summit, President Bush made his frustration with France clear.

"We have an expression in Texas that says, 'Show your cards'," he said.

"France has shown its card. Now we have to see tomorrow what that card meant."

<span id='postcolor'>

Kennedy would have quoted a classical writer. Bush Sr. would have quoted Thomas Jefferson or some other American ikon. Clinton would have made a humanitarian appeal. What do we get from W? A poker reference! It's like having Homer frickin' Simpson in the White House  <span id='postcolor'>

you got problem with that? RalphWiggum is a moderator. what's the difference?

back on serious on topic note:

i have to agree that not on quoting material, but how this administration is acting is quite impressive. i won't be surprised if historians look back at this era and call it "a display window president and his group."

dick cheney, condoleeza rice, and colin powell all have some reasons in their brain, but Rumsfeld seems to be not. I wonder what Bush sr has to say about current situation.

[Col. Kurtz 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 17 2003,16:22)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder what Bush sr has to say about current situation.<span id='postcolor'>

Well according to an article I read about a week back, Bush Snr. was warning his son about Bush Jnr's current stance on Iraq saying something along the lines that it was abit over board. If I can find the article I will post it.

[Longinius 1]

"Civilians Saddam Hussein has killed - 1,500,000"

And all of those civilians were killed when the US supported Saddam. They were killed with America funded equipment, and probably with weapons from America. How does that make the US look? They didnt care about jack shit when he was killing Kurds, in fact, they were very buddy-buddy at the time. But NOW its so terrible. If anything should have been done, it should have been back then.

"Civilians killed in the Gulf war (according to Iraq even) - 2,278

That's 1/658th of the total number of people killed by Saddam. Who do you think the bigger threat is again?"

Iraqi civilians killed by US imposed sanctions - Countless

[Necromancer- 0]

Threads closed by moderators - countless

If saddam didn't get the weapons from the Americans..... he prolly would have killed them with counterfeit AK-47's.

[Longinius 1]

"If saddam didn't get the weapons from the Americans..... he prolly would have killed them with counterfeit AK-47's."

So that makes it right?

[Skul 0]

Well Sadass has until midnight tonight (17 March) to disarm... after that... well it may mean war...

This damn world... it's never done with wars. There's always a war going on somewhere... WW1 and then WW2... wars in between wars.. we also have the Vietnam War followed by the Cold War which, in turn, preceeded the Gulf War. We're going to destroy this planet with all the shit we're pulling...

[Longinius 1]

And you forgot all the wars which are not classified as wars, merely "conflicts" or "hotspots". Like in Colombia, East Timor, Israel, to many African places to mention, Balkans, Chechnya etc.

[Pete 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FSPilot @ Mar. 17 2003,05:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Civilians Saddam Hussein has killed - 1,500,000

Civilians killed in the Gulf war (according to Iraq even) - 2,278

That's 1/658th of the total number of people killed by Saddam.  Who do you think the bigger threat is again?<span id='postcolor'>

that is a false way to put statistics.

how about like this: amount of iraqis killed during + after gw1?

if you are not counting the iraqi soldiers killed in the war (as you shouldnt) then you also shouldnt count the iraqis killed trying to revolt against saddam (civil war) after american promises of support.....

in this case we are simply counting the amounts of civilian death who were not involved in the fighting.

amount killed as collaterial damage.

us: 2.278

iraq: not known (but i quess a less, iraqis didnt fight on own territory much at all..and why should they shoot there own people?)

amount killed becouse of sanctions.

us: countless..perhaps up to a million by now.

iraq: could done more to get the sanctions lifted, gets part of the blame.

amount killed becouse of depl. uranium rounds.

us: not known, but can be thousands (more than 300 tons of uranium was spread over iraq...)

iraq: doesnt use that kind of ammuntion.

ooohh...wtf??...now im making saddam look like a saint and usa as a murderous bastard??, must be something wrong with the way i count....

ok...new try.

saddam has ruled for, what, 20-30 years??..in this time he killed 1.5 million?

how many usa killed during the same period of time??...only in vietnam usa killed the double.

oooohh..wait, something is wrong, my counting just goes on saddams favour all the time!!

ok, lets see...the last 2 years bush been president.

us started 1 war and threatening to start another, with civilian casualties

iraq started no wars and is not threatening to start any.

mmmmm...someone help me, please....how possible i continue making usa look so bad?

you know....bush has killed more americans than any other mayor during his time as a mayor...but now as he is president he has a much wider variety of victims..now he has much more power and doesnt have to consentrate on own people anymore.

its sooooo easy to talk shit about bush for some reason, and america for that matter...actually, all countries that ever existed has done some dirty deeds, saddam is no exception, neither is usa, or even small sweden that been without war longer than any country on the planet...all has done dirty things.

BUT...one thing is to have done dirty things, its already history, another and much worse thing is to do what you can to make the world dirtier, war on iraq is not needed...not yet atleast

some people say "what if iraq...", its bullshit, the same as i would say "what if vatican state..." and declare war on them before the pope decides to start armageddon a little bit earlier and send his swiss quard to attack nicaraqua.

to make it all very clear to you all pro-war people...i AM pro-war when it is to defend self or to defend some other country....but i cant, and neither should any of you, be prowar when it is only becouse "bush doesnt like saddam" private personal dislike cause.

not becouse i like saddam...but because the signals it gives to the world, india and pakistan nearly started a nuclear war on the same reasons usa used to attack afganistan, god knows how many countries now decides to start a war to "attack before they decide to attack"

[HellToupee 0]

from what my friend tells me, now he lived their iraq was doing fine untill the gulf war, so sanctions just might have sumthing to do with its current state of civilian population.

[foxer 0]

First FallenPaladin,I think we can all agree that McDonalds sucks.

Iraqi civilians killed by US imposed sanctions - Countless

That wasn't just the US fault,it was iraqs ,un,europe.So split all that between all the countries.

saddam has ruled for, what, 20-30 years??..in this time he killed 1.5 million?

how many usa killed during the same period of time??...only in vietnam usa killed the double.

The kill count wasn't that high in 1973 till 2003.But it wasn't like the vietnam people weren't fighting back,i mean 50,000(few thousands more) thousands died.Plus all the injury soldiers.Oh yeah,let's not bring up agent orange.That was really shitty,heck if you go to cnn and look it up you will find america soldiers are dying from that crap.Plus how many other soldiers died of cancer before they know about agent orange.But the sad part is the people over also dying from that crap.Also birth defects.Which really is sad.

ok, lets see...the last 2 years bush been president.

us started 1 war and threatening to start another, with civilian casualties

iraq started no wars and is not threatening to start any.

1 war was payback.I guess you can count iraq war number 2 though.

you know....bush has killed more americans than any other mayor during his time as a mayor...but now as he is president he has a much wider variety of victims..now he has much more power and doesnt have to consentrate on own people anymore.

I know your from europe,soo he was the state governor,not the mayor.A mayor is someone that runs an city/town.But i can agree with you on this point,but gotta say probably half or more then half killed someone.

i AM pro-war when it is to defend self or to defend some other country....but i cant, and neither should any of you, be prowar when it is only becouse "bush doesnt like saddam" private personal dislike cause.

I agree with you.I'm pro war.But i don't think we should go after iraq right now.But see how i ,we can't stop it.It's better to root for the US forces then Iraq forces.Because if saddam forces win,no idea what will happen then.

[Longinius 1]

"It's better to root for the US forces then Iraq forces.Because if saddam forces win,no idea what will happen then."

And who knows what will happen if the US wins. This war is right, but its being faught for all the wrong reasons, by the wrong people, supported by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. It is wrong, and that's it.

Saddam needs to go, but not this way.

[foxer 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ Mar. 17 2003,11:09)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"It's better to root for the US forces then Iraq forces.Because if saddam forces win,no idea what will happen then."

And who knows what will happen if the US wins. This war is right, but its being faught for all the wrong reasons, by the wrong people, supported by the wrong people for the wrong reasons. It is wrong, and that's it.

Saddam needs to go, but not this way.<span id='postcolor'>

True,I just don't think it's the right time to go to war with iraq.But like i said,we can't stop it.So don't root for the saddam soldiers.I hope they all surrender though.I say wait in a year see what he does about the UN.Also if they find out where he at they should just drop a bomb on his head.But that could be worse.

[DarkLight 0]

One thing is for sure, if this fucking war starts and i'm not on this forum anymore than this has happened. I've moved to Iraq to fight against the invaders.

*NO SMILE INSERTED!*

[interstat 0]

Hi Ho, Hi Ho, its off to WAR we go, dum, dum, dum, dum

I bet CNN can't wait to get going with their gratiutous, over-exposed, insanely subjective media circus.

I haven't got SKY anymore, but when I did CNN was media satire come to life, but they didn't know it.

Journalists waiting for smart bomb footage are probably already queing up outside the pentagon as we speak.