Devs! Please return the control of the tank from the commander, as it was before!

[Belbo 462]

Still: Moving vehicles with the mouse (eg. not using vehicle free look) heavily interferes with the new system. As a commander you can't rotate your turret without moving the vehicle.

[mickeymen 324]

On 05.12.2017 at 4:42 PM, blackburnrus said:

go to option-contols-command  and set diffrent buttons to your driver-comands. I set ctrl+wasdqe

U stiil can use old command system,

Your glitch happends because on default buttons for old and new driver-command system are the same. Set another buttons and all'll be fine

 

And yet not everything is smooth. It seems to me that now I got a hybrid control!

 

The Forward / Back / Right / Left commands work just like in the old system! This is good, but I can not understand how it works, if I in the game settings installed it to Ctr + W / Ctr +A / Ctr +D / Ctr + S?  Why does this work without Ctr !, only with  W / A / D / S?

 

I also can not make the tank move slowly as it was before. I still have to hold the keys, as in the new system.

In the old system, I did not have to hold the buttons down. If I assign a different keyboard shortcut (for example Ctr + Q, not Ctr + W!) to a slow advance, then when I press of Ctr + Q, the game does not sound the command (the commander does not say "Slow") and the game requires holding this buttons(Ctr + Q), while (Ctr + W) will still voice the Stop command and will still works , even though I removed this key-combination in the settings of this command.

[lex__1 422]

13 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

I also can not make the tank move slowly as it was before. I still have to hold the keys, as in the new system.

In the old system, I did not have to hold the buttons down.

Configure the keys in the settings \ control \ command - the command "slow" \ "fast."

1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

what's the point of comparing the game of 2017 with the game that was released in 2001? Yes, OFP is the parent of Arma, but in 2001 the technical issues of gameplay could have lesser requirements. If you want to compare, then it will be more logical to compare the new tank-control of Arma with modern games.

The comparison is related to the behavior of the AI on the commands of the commander.
In the OFP on the ground there were no obstacles between which often had to lead the tank. In Arma3, there are many obstacles, many bottlenecks, and the driver's AI response is important.

 

[mickeymen 324]

20 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

Configure the keys in the settings \ control \ command - the command "slow" \ "fast."

 

Thank you @lex__1, the voice command has appeared.

However, the slow-foward command does not work as before.

 

I set the slow-foward command in \ control \ command as a Ctr + Q (the Ctr + W combination was deleted)

I set the slow-foward command in \ controls / vehicle movement as a Ctr + Q (the Ctr + W combination was deleted)

 

but this only works when the buttons are hold down, while the forward and backward (W / S) buttons work without holding, as was the case with the old system.

And among other things (Ctr + W) continues to work! I've deleted it, why the hell does it continue to work?

[lex__1 422]

6 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

but this only works when the buttons are hold down, while the forward and backward (W / S) buttons work without holding, as was the case with the old system.

And among other things (Ctr + W) continues to work! I've deleted it, why the hell does it continue to work?

My settings are:
- forward - "W"
- "fast" - W * 2
- "slow" - "Ctr + W"

[mickeymen 324]

8 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

My settings are:
- "slow" - "Ctr + W"

 

 

In order for your tank to move slowly forward, you must hold "Ctr + W"?  In the old system, it was not necessary to hold it. I want to restore the old system completely. I already have a backwards/right/left without a hold, as it was in the old system! Now  need to "slowly" work the same way

 

[lex__1 422]

3 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

In order for your tank to move slowly forward, you must hold "Ctr + W"? 

 

This works without holding, when I change "fast" to "slow".

 

[mickeymen 324]

7 minutes ago, lex__1 said:

This works without holding, when I change "fast" to "slow".

I want it too! Probably I missed an error somewhere. because my command "slowly forward" always requires holding the buttons

 

but still, if you do not change "fast" to "slow". !? Does it work for you?  Remember in the old system, it could work simply from idle to slow movement and without holding the buttons

[lex__1 422]

8 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

I want it too! Probably I missed an error somewhere. because my command "slowly forward" always requires holding the buttons

- forward - "W"
- "fast" - W * 2
- "slow" - "Ctr + W"

This works in any order of command execution, the tank saves the specified motion. Only the "W" command saves execution when pressed.

[mickeymen 324]

1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

I returned the old system

 

As a whole, I achieved the result. Now everyone is happy) 

Thanks to all for the discussion...

 

Yet I hurried, Lol! There is no way to return it completely (via controls setting)

[lex__1 422]

28 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

 

Yet I hurried, Lol! There is no way to return it completely (via controls setting)

Do you create a combination of keys in setting up control commands, or are you trying to use a combination of keys (for different commands) in driving a vehicle?

[mickeymen 324]

1 hour ago, lex__1 said:

Do you create a combination of keys in setting up control commands, or are you trying to use a combination of keys (for different commands) in driving a vehicle?

 

sorry, did not understand your question clearly.

 

I saw that there is no possibility to return the old system, it turns out only confusion(

[lex__1 422]

16 minutes ago, mickeymen said:

sorry, did not understand your question clearly.

 

I saw that there is no possibility to return the old system, it turns out only confusion(

Configure commands

- forward - W  (operates by pressing and holding the key)
- command fast - Left Ctrl+W (does not require holding the key)
- command slow - Left Shift+W (does not require holding the key)

[mickeymen 324]

7 hours ago, lex__1 said:

- forward - W  (operates by pressing and holding the key)

Lex_1 Thank you for your efforts to help me, but I do not want to hold the buttons at the commander position/

Only drivers must hold buttons! Please note! This is exact - that it was the old control system. At old control, to move forward, player did not need to hold the W button down!

I want to either return the old system completely (where I do not need to hold even a one key) or I will be forced to use the new system and suffer trouble further. It seems to me that what you are offering me is a hybrid control system. A hybrid system will create a confusion for me

If I'm wrong, correct me ...

[lex__1 422]

These keys I used for the old AI control system, the same keys I use for the new control system.
For this reason, I see in the new control system only the quick response of my commands in the actions of the AI driver.

The WSAD voice commands - need correction, as they do not correctly sound, and do not end correctly, for a moving vehicle.

 

Reported it here:

 

[biggerdave 56]

1 hour ago, mickeymen said:

Lex_1 Thank you for your efforts to help me, but I do not want to hold the buttons at the commander position/

Only drivers must hold buttons! Please note! This is exact - that it was the old control system. At old control, to move forward, player did not need to hold the W button down!

I want to either return the old system completely (where I do not need to hold even a one key) or I will be forced to use the new system and suffer trouble further. It seems to me that what you are offering me is a hybrid control system. A hybrid system will create a confusion for me

If I'm wrong, correct me ...

 

So, I was dicking around with control settings, based on Belbo's comments about mouse turning (still not idea what he's going on about, btw? There isn't mouse turning for commanders, at least on my instance?), and, it appears I owe you a minor apology, but, still;

 

You need to have the command move (under the command settings) bound differently to the driver commands - so, if you have both driving and commanding bound to the same keys, you get sort of a "hybrid" command structure, that's a bit weird (so, you get the audio cues as if you're using the old method, but it controls like the rework, albeit slightly less precise). I've currently got it set up with WASD as direct control, and arrow keys for command controls (maybe numpad would work better?) - what's important is that you delete the common bindings, so, what you've got set for "command forward" and what you've got set for "accelerate" aren't the same! (ie, if you've bound W to move forward, you need to delete the binding for W to command forward)

 

Ideally, yeah, there definitely needs to be, at the very least, an option to disable the direct controls for commanders, so you can bind them the same. (and maybe, while we're on the subject, a button for the commander to say "point the gun exactly here" (so we don't need to deal with the AI not being ""aware"" of the target you've just directly pointed them at) and "point the front armour exactly this direction", in lieu of trying to micromanage direction)

 

(Turning behaviour is still the same between the two, though!)

[Belbo 462]

13 minutes ago, biggerdave said:

 

(still not idea what he's going on about, btw? There isn't mouse turning for commanders, at least on my instance?)

 

Set "Mouse Left" for "Car Left" and "Mouse Right" for "Car Right". You can no longer turn your turret without moving the whole vehicle in the commander seat. Or additionally enable freelook and go in 3rd person: You can't look around without moving the vehicle.

That's what I'm going on about.

[lex__1 422]

24 minutes ago, Belbo said:

Set "Mouse Left" for "Car Left" and "Mouse Right" for "Car Right". You can no longer turn your turret without moving the whole vehicle in the commander seat. That's what I'm going on about.

I have no such behavior. The mouse turns the tower in the direction of the arrow, in the driver's position the mouse turns L \ R.

I have no such behavior. The mouse turns the tower in the direction of the arrow, in the driver's position the mouse turns L \ R.
The mouse options "Mouse Left" and "Mouse Right" are used as commands:
car more left - "Mouse Left"
car more right - "Mouse Right"

[biggerdave 56]

35 minutes ago, Belbo said:

Set "Mouse Left" for "Car Left" and "Mouse Right" for "Car Right". You can no longer turn your turret without moving the whole vehicle in the commander seat. Or additionally enable freelook and go in 3rd person: You can't look around without moving the vehicle.

That's what I'm going on about.

Oh, that makes sense.

 

(But, why, though? I mean, is it better than the default mouse controls? 'cause I've always felt like the mouse steering has been a bit off since ArmA.1 compared to OFP)

[Belbo 462]

22 minutes ago, biggerdave said:

Oh, that makes sense.

 

(But, why, though? I mean, is it better than the default mouse controls? 'cause I've always felt like the mouse steering has been a bit off since ArmA.1 compared to OFP)

"Car More Left" and "Car More Right" have a completely different behaviour than "Car Left" and "Car Right". You have a much more proper input. "Car More XYZ" give you a kind of delay between mouse movements and vehicle steering. But with direct controls it's no longer suitable.

Additionally: "Car More Left" and "Car More Right" should just as much be direct ai commands as "Car Left" and "Car Right" or "Car Left Analog" and "Car Right Analog". There's no reason to include the one and exclude the others. It's as if noone has even thought about this direct control mess before implementing it. There should simply be an option if you want direct control or not - because it breaks so many systems (like controlling your vehicle with mouse commands).

[mickeymen 324]

12 hours ago, biggerdave said:

 and, it appears I owe you a minor apology, but, still;

I already forgot about it. All Ok)

 

12 hours ago, biggerdave said:

 I've currently got it set up with WASD as direct control, and arrow keys for command controls (maybe numpad would work better?) - what's important is that you delete the common bindings, so, what you've got set for "command forward" and what you've got set for "accelerate" aren't the same! (ie, if you've bound W to move forward, you need to delete the binding for W to command forward)

 

 

If we talk about the settings -\ control \ command

These settings will move the vehicle, this is not only voice commands. This is a setting must be only for the commanders of vehicles, do I understand correctly!?

I've tried it several times already. I always have one result - If I change the buttons in these settings, then I always get a new control system but with another buttons.  I would like for these settings to work in the old way, (without holding the buttons on the commander position), but no matter how I change it, I always get a new control system (with holding the buttons on the commander position).

 

If we talk about the settings -\ control \ vehicle movement 

Note! However, if I change those settings, then I get a strange thing! As far as I understand This is the setting for drivers of all vehicles, not for commanders. But it is when I change these settings that I get partially the old control system for the commander. This will affect directly the commanders and this is strange! Then for what the player has those settings - "\ control \ command" ? It seems to me that the BIS is confused and has two settings, which both affect the commanders. This creates a confusion. This should not be!

 

For example, I changed in \ control \ vehicle movement  the (W / A / D / S) to (Ctr + W/Ctr + A/Ctr + D/ Ctr + S)  and I see that I have partially - the old control system for commanders again.  What is the relationship, I can not understand!  Now, This will work with the usual buttons - W / A / D / S and without pressing the keys! What the heck? I've installed new buttons with the Ctr + prefix, but this will work just with - W / A / D / S!

In Principle is not important, the player has partially a old system. But why am I not happy with this !?

 

It has a few problems:

1) If I change in \ control \ vehicle movement  the ( W / A / D / S ) to (Ctr + W/Ctr + A/Ctr + D/ Ctr + S ), then the drivers of the all land vehicles, will are have to be vehicle control only via - (Ctr + W, Ctr + A, Ctr + D, Ctr + S), while the player in the commander position, for control will have - ( W / A / D / S). This will strange. This is inconvenient because it affects all land vehicles and complicates their controls. 

 

2) If I change in \ control \ vehicle movement  the ( W / A / D / S ) to (Ctr + W/Ctr + A/Ctr + D/ Ctr + S ), then at turnings and specific movement (command right in place, command Left in place, command slow foward, command fast foward) - I will still need to holding down the buttons to make it work. While standard moving - (forward / backward/ right at the movement/left at the movement) - will not require holding down the buttons. I'm getting a hybrid control!

 

This is strange to say the least. I could close my eyes to this, but the first point is very bad for me.

So it seems to me impossible to return the old system completely...I'm sad

 

 

 

[Sniperturtle 1]

I know it's an old topic, but then i don't use vehicles in ArmA if i can avoid it. So happens now that i have a port of the CWA campaign and there you actually have to command tanks, and that "direct-control-'feature' is just driving me mad. Tell your crew to keep formation, works fine until you accidently touch your mouse or somehow just cause a slight change in you commanders turret/view. Same with waypoints, or even traversing along a fight... this novelty gameplay arcade is a major pain in the butt. PLEASE, at least give me an option to get the original way of tank ops back, i am not a CoD-kid.

 

 

P.S.: Also the chassis turns away from the sight, and since the actual positioning of the tank is no longer shown in th HUD you get confused as to what "forward" or "backward" now even mean, because as you look around and try to issue targets and fire commands the driver turns to where he thinks you are looking, but just not... Oh my gosh i could make this list endless about what enrages me so much about this, just the fact that i am forced to go into 3rd person (not always an option by the way!!!) to realign my tank makes me so ***(/)§$%&)=(/Q§&$%***....

[lex__1 422]

2 hours ago, Sniperturtle said:

I know it's an old topic, but then i don't use vehicles in ArmA if i can avoid it. So happens now that i have a port of the CWA campaign and there you actually have to command tanks, and that "direct-control-'feature' is just driving me mad. Tell your crew to keep formation, works fine until you accidently touch your mouse or somehow just cause a slight change in you commanders turret/view. Same with waypoints, or even traversing along a fight... this novelty gameplay arcade is a major pain in the butt. PLEASE, at least give me an option to get the original way of tank ops back, i am not a CoD-kid.

 

 

P.S.: Also the chassis turns away from the sight, and since the actual positioning of the tank is no longer shown in th HUD you get confused as to what "forward" or "backward" now even mean, because as you look around and try to issue targets and fire commands the driver turns to where he thinks you are looking, but just not... Oh my gosh i could make this list endless about what enrages me so much about this, just the fact that i am forced to go into 3rd person (not always an option by the way!!!) to realign my tank makes me so ***(/)§$%&)=(/Q§&$%***.... 

If you change the control method, turns and moves forward / backward from the keys, and the mouse control does not participate in the turn - you will have no problems with control.
The only thing that remains a problem is an order for continuous movement and waypoints (their influence on the driver of the crew).

1. Command Commands for the AI driver - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T127310

2.AI the driver doesn't keep the Tank position - https://feedback.bistudio.com/T127626

[Belbo 462]

1 minute ago, lex__1 said:

If you change the control method, turns and moves forward / backward from the keys, and the mouse control does not participate in the turn - you will have no problems with control.

Except that the steering behaviour is very different with the different modes - and the seemingly preferred (or with the commander steering now only viable) option is the worst of all.

[lex__1 422]

5 hours ago, Belbo said:

Except that the steering behaviour is very different with the different modes - and the seemingly preferred (or with the commander steering now only viable) option is the worst of all. 

In which version are you checking it now?

I do not know, unfortunately, as it is in 1.90 and RC1.92, since I am on DEV 1.93. I checked it today in DEV 1.93.145618. Tank control is broken and has problems. The problem is that under certain circumstances, the commands of the commander will not be carried out by the driver of the tank. This problem occurs when the tank commander takes control of the tank movement.

Can someone check this for RC 1.92?