HAFM NAVY v1.5 Release

[Timo B. 1]

Aii, it's a shame external mods with anti ship rockets may still be able to kill them. but oh well ey. Amazing stuff anyways.

[Devastator_cm 434]

like Aplion said ESSM kind of missiles has a miss ratio. CIWS on the other hand, has a success ratio. So there is no guarantee that they can intercept. Ofcourse the more defence measures comes into play against a single thread, the higher chances to eliminate it

[Devastator_cm 434]

1 minute ago, Timo B. said:

Aii, it's a shame external mods with anti ship rockets may still be able to kill them. but oh well ey. Amazing stuff anyways.

 

if we notice or informed by someone that there is another mod which is usually used to hunt our vehicles, we might extend the defence protocoll 

[Polyus 139]

Oh that is seriously impressive.

[Timo B. 1]

I'm not sure if this is possible with the arma 3 engine, but will you lads make heli's capable of landing on these things?

[Αplion 1122]

2 minutes ago, Timo B. said:

I'm not sure if this is possible with the arma 3 engine, but will you lads make heli's capable of landing on these things?

 

We already have this scripted but only when heli is controlled by human ...

[Timo B. 1]

then my follow up question will the pilot be able to get out of the heli when it's loaded on the ship? (as in walk on it)

 

[Αplion 1122]

1 minute ago, Timo B. said:

then my follow up question will the pilot be able to get out of the heli when it's loaded on the ship? (as in walk on it)

 

 

If your question is if the ships will be walkable then the answer is no ... maybe the heli crew and passengers could be get out when landed and ship is not moving at all ... we'll see about that due to many game engine restrictions.

[Timo B. 1]

Anyways, cool stuff i'm excited to see it.

[Αplion 1122]

Russian Buyan-M class Corvette in game - WIP (colors need to be tweaked) ... btw ... I know that I'm posting WIP on wrong area as this is for completed mods ... so in case any Moderator want me to stop doing that, I'll open a new thread on the right area ... in any case this will be a totally different mod than it was ... (apologize for inconvenience).

 

[LeBrun35 7]

I'm really looking forward to your work  wich is amazing !!!

 

I'm curious to know if main gun will be able to make indirect fire with an artillery computer ? 

[Αplion 1122]

3 minutes ago, LeBrun35 said:

I'm really looking forward to your work  wich is amazing !!!

 

I'm curious to know if main gun will be able to make indirect fire with an artillery computer ? 

 

Don't know yet (about main gun and artillery) as this is "hardcoded" on default game and maybe we have to look on it using scripts ... can't answer yet on this .. 

[Devastator_cm 434]

27 minutes ago, LeBrun35 said:

I'm really looking forward to your work  wich is amazing !!!

 

I'm curious to know if main gun will be able to make indirect fire with an artillery computer ? 

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%22/54_caliber_Mark_45_gun

That gun is for shore attack. So ballistic computer will make it unrealistic as it has no inland attack capability 

[LeBrun35 7]

24 minutes ago, Devastator_cm said:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%22/54_caliber_Mark_45_gun

That gun is for shore attack. So ballistic computer will make it unrealistic as it has no inland attack capability 

 

Hmmm shore attack require inland attack ability, they are some example like vietnam war , operation desert storm, invasion of irak in 2003 where destroyer with 5"/54 where ask to do infantry support. 5"/54 is nowadays the only artillery support that could be used for naval landing made by US marines and for those operation use Naval gunfire liaison officer with infantry to direct the fire of ships in support of those infantry men . 

 

Those mission are important and that's a reason the last destroyer of US navy is equiped with 155mm to increase the firepower. I'm sure that all naval gun >100 mm have in reality "ballistic computer" to calculate trajectory for inland fire ( do not forget that velocity of naval gun is low so they have pretty curved trajectory)

 

But i understand that technically it may be hard to implement in arma ^^ 

 

[Devastator_cm 434]

it is not hard to implement. It is related to reality.

Check the links what you have send to me first by yourself. Those are the ww2 kind of battleships which does inland attacks. Modern ships does not have anymore old style guns like by  USS Missouri,  USS Wisconsin or Iowa anymore.

Modern naval battles are based on missiles. The gun on the frigates are to hit other ships, boats or support infantry landing to shore by hitting the shore. They are not used to make indirect fire behind mountains or hills.

[LeBrun35 7]

31 minutes ago, Devastator_cm said:

it is not hard to implement. It is related to reality.

Check the links what you have send to me first by yourself. Those are the ww2 kind of battleships which does inland attacks. Modern ships does not have anymore old style guns like by  USS Missouri,  USS Wisconsin or Iowa anymore.

Modern naval battles are based on missiles. The gun on the frigates are to hit other ships, boats or support infantry landing to shore by hitting the shore. They are not used to make indirect fire behind mountains or hills.

 

I'm sorry but i've not read the same thing as you ^^ 

 

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_gunfire_support

 

"Task Unit 70.8.9, the US Naval Gunfire Support Unit, was made up of destroyers, armed with 5"/38 or 5"/54 guns, and continuously patrolled the coast of South Vietnam to provide NGFS at short notice. "

 

"Despite the reduction in calibre size to 5-inch (127 mm) guns, even ground-based NATO forces' artillery observers (FOs)[citation needed] and Forward Air Controllers (FACs)[citation needed] are taught the rudiments of calling in and adjusting naval gunfire. With the exception of a few procedures, the controlling principles are quite similar in both land and naval bombardment. While the ground-based FO starts his adjustment mission by saying, "Adjust Fire", the naval gunfire spotter says, "Fire Mission"; from that point on the procedures are almost identical."

 

Also  US marines have some soldiers specialized in naval fire guidance :  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_gunfire_liaison_officer and Air Naval Gunfire Liaison Company whore are trained to guide shells , something useful when the boat can't see the target. 

And nowadays 5"/54 is the only gun in navy than can do this mission since they are no more USS missouri , wiscon or Iowa. But they can do it.

 

31 minutes ago, Devastator_cm said:

The gun on the frigates are to hit other ships, boats or support infantry landing to shore by hitting the shore. They are not used to make indirect fire behind mountains or hills.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5"/54_caliber_Mark_45_gun 

5"/54 has a muzzle velocity of 762.0 m/s , that's pretty low so if you want to hit shore from far you have to lob your shells, it can easily go behind hills just a question of ballistic.

 

 

EDIT : 

If someone is interest in the subject i recommend "Joint and Interdependent Requirements: A Case Study in Solving the Naval Surface Fire Support Capabilities Gap" : http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a481976.pdf

 

Who talk about naval fire support and lack of firepower of modern guns for modern conflict for those missions etc .... 

[Devastator_cm 434]

from the intial page you sent

"Additionally, the United States Marine Corps maintains three active (1st, 2nd, & 5th) and three reserve (3rd, 4th & 6th) ANGLICO units. ANGLICO members are temporarily assigned to combat units of the United States and foreign nations that lack inherent fire support capability, such as naval gunfire. The ships equipped with the large caliber guns of the early and middle of the 20th century have all been decommissioned. The last battleship, USS Wisconsin, was decommissioned in 1992 and struck in 2006. The aircraft carrier and sea to land missile have been used instead. Naval guns used on modern ships are smaller caliber weapons, generally with more advanced targeting systems. It is unlikely that the large caliber guns will make a return and much of the traditional role of Naval Gunfire has been taken over by naval air power and missiles."

 

and also

 

"Within the U.S. there was a long debate over the role naval gunfire support should play in warfare. This took on a greater sense of urgency with the removal of the last two battleships from the NVR. In 2007, a thesis report submitted to the Joint Forces Staff College/Joint Advanced Warfighting School by Shawn A. Welch, a Colonel in the Army National Guard's Corps of Engineers analyzed the current capacity for naval gunfire support (NGS) and made several conclusions based on the progress made since the retirement of the last two Iowa-class battleships. Welch's thesis report, which earned the National Defense Universities award for Best Thesis in 2007, estimated that the full force of DD(X) destroyers needed to replace the decommissioned Iowas would not arrive until 2020–2025 at the earliest, and anotes that the U.S. Navy had not accurately assessed the capabilities of its large caliber gun ships since 1990. The report notes that the Navy has consistently scaled back or outright cancelled programs intended to replace naval gunfire support capacity, in the process making no significant gains for offshore fire support since the retirement of the last Iowa-class battleship in 1992. This failure by the navy to meet Congressional mandates to improve naval gunfire support caused a rift with the United States Marine Corps and to a lesser extent the United States Army; in the case of the former, the concern is great enough that several three and four star generals in the Marine Corps have openly admitted to the press their concern over the absence of any effective ship based gunfire support, and two separate Commandants of the Marine Corps have testified before the Senate Armed Service Committee on the risks faced by the Marines in the absence of any effective naval gunfire support.[5]"

 

so as conclusion none of the ships which will be in the next release of this mod has guns which was used by Iowa or will be used by  Zumwalt-class, a.k.a. DD(X). If one day DD(X) is added to mod then we can consider the ballistic computer for that specific vessel

[LeBrun35 7]

I'm a bit obstinate so sorry if i continue on the subject.

 

I'm agree that naval support has been taken in majority by missile, but many ships keep the ability to do indirect fire , not as good that with 406 mm of the iowa since the velocity with 127mm is a bit higher so you can't pass higher hill or mountain than as big but you can do it , just not as effective and surely not as powerful. Here are some proof like a training document of fire support for marines or some videos from manufacturer of those gun : 

 

Spoiler

 

 

https://www.trngcmd.marines.mil/Portals/207/Docs/TBS/B2C0289XQ Principles of Fire Support.pdf?ver=2015-12-02-124100-797 (page 16 to the end of the document) 

 

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a514807.pdf document made in 1999 "Naval Surface Fire Support: Meeting Operational Maneuver From The Sea And Future Requirements"  about how they could increase those capabilities that were already existant.

 

Australian training to naval fire support 

 

 

2003 - Naval fire support for commando from HMS Marlborough (113 mm gun)

 

 

Video about training of spotter (Anglico) where they sy they train for naval gun fire (3 min 30)

 

 

Commercial video for OTO Melara 76mm with ammunition purpose for this task : 

 

Commercials videos for the 5inches gun (127mm) who sell it by saying " mission objectives : control inland area" (30s for the both)

Commercial video again for vulcano for OTO melara (79 and 127mm)  with the purpose of inland support

 

 

 

 

To conclude from my point of view naval fire support with gun is something that may not be very used  but that is something that all navy take into account for naval landing or coastal support. 
 

Also it would be a great thing for your mod to give the opportunity to player who will play as gunner during multiplayer mission to be able to make direct fire to  kill other naval targets but also to make indirect fire to support players on land. It would permit to integrate the ship in a support role more easily and give more mission to do and be able to play in coordination with ground forces with the opportunity for them to ask for fire mission.  

I hope i did not bother you with that subject , and i'm sure than i will take great pleasure playing the next update of your mod : )

 

Edit : add one document "Naval Surface Fire Support: Meeting Operational Maneuver From The Sea And Future Requirements" 

[Devastator_cm 434]

I think I am somehow convinced although in first videos they use direct fire. 

 

[JohnKalo 657]

The Russian Buyan-M class Corvette looks really nice!

About the choppers landing on to ships, a refuel, rearm and maybe repair function would be great alone since the Arma 3 engine has issues with walking on movable surfaces.

An issue I have not reported is that the AI are really pissed off with the enemy hence they fire all missiles at once causing ammunition shortages. They just continue firing until the target is destroyed without waiting for the first missile to actually reach its target.  That way boats which can be dealt with the cannon cause issues and players have expressed confusion. Thanks.

[Αplion 1122]

Please don't report any issues as the old mod will be completely deleted in fact and this one we are working on will be totally different. Consider the mod as you have it now ... just "finished" by any mean :)

 

Just FYI ... only some small ships will be remain from current status mod ... the new one will have just 4-5 new "big" ships and maybe in future will be added more. Thats all for the moment.

[JohnKalo 657]

Sure thing BUT will missions which have the current version of the mod as a requirement be playable after the update???

[Αplion 1122]

1 minute ago, JohnKalo said:

Sure thing BUT will missions which have the current version of the mod as a requirement be playable after the update???

 

No they were not as the classnames will be different I'm afraid ... Sorry but I can't do something on that ...

[chops 111]

Fantastic work here fellas! Really impressive. Looks like you have put a lot of time and effort in.

[Polyus 139]

The Buyan looks excellent!!