Recoil and it's simple solution

[cornholio308 11]

I can't believe how easy it is to make recoil simulate much more like the real deal by forcing you to use semi automatic fire to hit your target. Anyone in the military realizes the worth of automatic fire, suppression. Not for killing your target's with a hail of lead. In arma though using semi automatic in anything but sniper rifles is the idiots choice. player "setUnitRecoilCoefficient 3" cures that issue. I can't believe how easy that was to fix arma, now only if it was officially supported... 

[wsxcgy 1960]

I was never aware of any significant recoil issues, though maybe I'm better at managing it. Though I personally feel like automatic fire used anything other than dedicated MGs is the stupid choice, and prefer semiautomatic and deliberate shooting. Machinegunners and Autoriflemen (and grenadiers though thats a different situation) suppress the enemy while everyone else provides accurate and deliberate fire to actually eliminate the enemy, but Arma doesn't really do suppression anyways. Accurate and deliberate fire is generally not possible in fully automatic fire, only semiautomatic fire. And still, Autoriflemen and Machinegunners do not engage without supporting their weapons unless in emergency situations generally in close quarters, and deploying weapons effectively stabilizes the weapon for sustained fire. Nerfing recoil values so rifles shoot like laserguns would be bad, controlled automatic fire is not for everyone in the squad and it requires knowing how to adapt or compensate. And luckily we already have everything we need to adapt and compensate.  And I think you can order AI to provide suppressive fire now too, so there's really nothing wrong here as far as I can see. 

[drdetroit 77]

Yea, nothing wrong at all.  Not sure if you ever fired an AK or M4 in full auto, but it's not a good thing to do all the time.  Not good for the weapon (at all), not good for your ammo loadout, and not good for your accuracy and kill ratio.  That is why dedicated MG guys carry spare barrels and another guy carrying ammo boxes.

 

The US military, and most, if not all, modern militaries, train you to aim at your target in semi-auto and fire at a target in a deliberate and controller manner, not full auto pray and spray.  That is why properly trained soldiers have much much higher kill ratios than say ISIS or Taliban.  These paramilitary guys, if you can call them that, hide behind cover, lift their weapon above their head and just shoot without even looking at what they are shooting at (pray and spray).

 

Full auto is mainly for CQB only and emergency suppression.  The M16A1/A2 didn't even have full auto, only three shot burst.  Like WSXCGY said, there are machine gunners that do the suppressive fire roles, not the rifleman.  

[BroBeans. 279]

I think what hes trying to say is the recoil is too low for automatic fire .. Giving no penalty if you choose to spray down your enemy .. By setting the Recoilcoefficient higher he is making it 'harder'. Giving more penalty to autofire

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

15 hours ago, cornholio308 said:

player "setUnitRecoilCoefficient 3" cures that issue. I can't believe how easy that was to fix arma, now only if it was officially supported... 

Vanilla settings seem fine to me.

After all you're playing as a trained soldier.

Nothing stops you from increasing recoil in your own missions.

 

Cheers

[cornholio308 11]

15 hours ago, wsxcgy said:

I was never aware of any significant recoil issues, though maybe I'm better at managing it. Though I personally feel like automatic fire used anything other than dedicated MGs is the stupid choice, and prefer semiautomatic and deliberate shooting. Machinegunners and Autoriflemen (and grenadiers though thats a different situation) suppress the enemy while everyone else provides accurate and deliberate fire to actually eliminate the enemy, but Arma doesn't really do suppression anyways. Accurate and deliberate fire is generally not possible in fully automatic fire, only semiautomatic fire. And still, Autoriflemen and Machinegunners do not engage without supporting their weapons unless in emergency situations generally in close quarters, and deploying weapons effectively stabilizes the weapon for sustained fire. Nerfing recoil values so rifles shoot like laserguns would be bad, controlled automatic fire is not for everyone in the squad and it requires knowing how to adapt or compensate. And luckily we already have everything we need to adapt and compensate.  And I think you can order AI to provide suppressive fire now too, so there's really nothing wrong here as far as I can see. 

You have somehow completely misunderstood what I am saying, the recoil in this game is far too soft, increasing it 3x results in a far more accurate depiction of what it's like to fire a fully automatic weapon, first shot on target, everything past that everywhere but. Second, third shot should always be high. 

[cornholio308 11]

14 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Yea, nothing wrong at all.  Not sure if you ever fired an AK or M4 in full auto, but it's not a good thing to do all the time.  Not good for the weapon (at all), not good for your ammo loadout, and not good for your accuracy and kill ratio.  That is why dedicated MG guys carry spare barrels and another guy carrying ammo boxes.

 

The US military, and most, if not all, modern militaries, train you to aim at your target in semi-auto and fire at a target in a deliberate and controller manner, not full auto pray and spray.  That is why properly trained soldiers have much much higher kill ratios than say ISIS or Taliban.  These paramilitary guys, if you can call them that, hide behind cover, lift their weapon above their head and just shoot without even looking at what they are shooting at (pray and spray).

 

Full auto is mainly for CQB only and emergency suppression.  The M16A1/A2 didn't even have full auto, only three shot burst.  Like WSXCGY said, there are machine gunners that do the suppressive fire roles, not the rifleman.  

You have the right idea but start your comment off with nothing is wrong? Have you ever played arma 3 where fully automatic fire is like watering down your targets at 400+ meters. 

[cornholio308 11]

13 hours ago, BroBeans. said:

I think what hes trying to say is the recoil is too low for automatic fire .. Giving no penalty if you choose to spray down your enemy .. By setting the Recoilcoefficient higher he is making it 'harder'. Giving more penalty to autofire

And the reward for being able to comprehend the message goes to! Lol 

[cornholio308 11]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Vanilla settings seem fine to me.

After all you're playing as a trained soldier.

Nothing stops you from increasing recoil in your own missions.

 

Cheers

You clearly don't understand physics, you can not train to defeat physics, the only way you can recreate recoil patterns of fully automatic fire while standing with for example the akm in arma would be by finding a way to mount the gun to a tripod. In game I can keep 30 rounds of fully automatic fire in a cone size of about 4-5 inches at 25 meters. This is unheard of accuracy, even from an automatic 22lr. The recoil in this game is another crutch given to players and results in poor use of automatic fire selected weapons. FYI automatic fire is used to suppress the enemy, not snipe them with a hail of lead. You wouldn't hit shit past your first round. If you don't believe me it just tells us that you have never had the chance to use a firearm with a fire select switch. But go on youtube and look up some spray patterns when trained and experienced shooters switch to fully automatic fire, some of them might even point out how pointless and hard it is to hit the target. Educate yourself buddie. 

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

28 minutes ago, cornholio308 said:

You clearly don't understand physics, you can not train to defeat physics, the only way you can recreate recoil patterns of fully automatic fire while standing with for example the akm in arma would be by finding a way to mount the gun to a tripod. In game I can keep 30 rounds of fully automatic fire in a cone size of about 4-5 inches at 25 meters. This is unheard of accuracy, even from an automatic 22lr. The recoil in this game is another crutch given to players and results in poor use of automatic fire selected weapons. FYI automatic fire is used to suppress the enemy, not snipe them with a hail of lead. You wouldn't hit shit past your first round. If you don't believe me it just tells us that you have never had the chance to use a firearm with a fire select switch. But go on youtube and look up some spray patterns when trained and experienced shooters switch to fully automatic fire, some of them might even point out how pointless and hard it is to hit the target. Educate yourself buddie. 

 

5 inches? Thats the size of a CD cover. A full 30 round mag with full auto standing upright at 25m? With the in game AKM?

I'm impressed, care to share a video of that?

 

This popup target is at 25m, the upper circle is roughly 5 inches. Knock yourself out.

 

 

Cheers

 

[wsxcgy 1960]

1 hour ago, cornholio308 said:

You have somehow completely misunderstood what I am saying, the recoil in this game is far too soft, increasing it 3x results in a far more accurate depiction of what it's like to fire a fully automatic weapon, first shot on target, everything past that everywhere but. Second, third shot should always be high. 

Oh, haha, sorry. Your post was structured a little unusually so I kind of misunderstood. Vanilla weapons definitely have unrealistically low recoil, that .338 SPMG that has basially zero recoil is ridiculous, I mean,  I'm sure weight would help a little but .338 is a big fuckin bullet and that thing has a significant rate of fire. I mostly use modded content like RHS which more realistically portrays weapons in so many aspects. Unfortunately, BIS has a policy of everything being in the future so thus denying current day limitations and laws of physics and of balancing everything for PVP and fairness, so I doubt its going to change. 

[peegee 118]

IMO it's fairly good approach, vanilla game works in itself as a game and it's relatively "balanced" in PVP and PVE, and mods add the milsim aspect for those who desire it.

[drdetroit 77]

5 hours ago, cornholio308 said:

You have somehow completely misunderstood what I am saying, the recoil in this game is far too soft, increasing it 3x results in a far more accurate depiction of what it's like to fire a fully automatic weapon, first shot on target, everything past that everywhere but. Second, third shot should always be high. 

 

Yea, I misunderstood as well, sorry about that.  I thought you were saying the recoil is too harsh for full auto and you should be able to use nothing but full auto in combat.  

 

As it's been stated, you are probably correct!  In any event I usually just keep it in semi unless I'm in CQB mode.  

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

@cornholio308

Still waiting for that video.

 

Cheers

[Imperator[TFD] 444]

On 4/27/2017 at 10:22 AM, wsxcgy said:

but Arma doesn't really do suppression anyways.

 

Yes, yes it does.  Just not for players which is just the way I like it.  Games that have to tell a player to get down and be suppressed via mechanics are stupid.

[Ѧ 56]

On 26.4.2017 at 11:06 PM, cornholio308 said:

I can't believe how easy it is to make recoil simulate much more like the real deal by forcing you to use semi automatic fire to hit your target. Anyone in the military realizes the worth of automatic fire, suppression. Not for killing your target's with a hail of lead. In arma though using semi automatic in anything but sniper rifles is the idiots choice. player "setUnitRecoilCoefficient 3" cures that issue. I can't believe how easy that was to fix arma, now only if it was officially supported... 

 

Just tried it out and got to say the weapons feel way better and powerful/realistic now.

Wish BIS would make that the vanilla value.

[domokun 515]

I tend to agree that the recoil is too low.

So, In which file is the parameter setUnitRecoilCoefficient found?

Also, if defined on the server, is it enforced on other players?

[Grumpy Old Man 3545]

@domokun

If you want to enforce it on players simply put

player setUnitRecoilCoefficient 3

into both initPlayerLocal.sqf and onPlayerRespawn.sqf, which are placed in the missions root folder.

 

Cheers

[domokun 515]

OK. Isn't this parameter variable via the in-game Options/Game menu?

[Midnighters 152]

7 hours ago, domokun said:

OK. Isn't this parameter variable via the in-game Options/Game menu?

Available on server as well, but i believe the options menu for accuracy is for ai. Otherwise you'd have people running around with zero recoil