The AI enemy detection is broken

[VanZant 48]

Testing things to make some concealment improvements while this is happening ... Not new by the way.

The blue line is the enemy's line of sight, the hint panel shows the distance between us, and in the hud at the upper left corner can be seen the knowsabout value.

The video starts with me crawling as fastest as possible with the enemy 53 m away. Then I pass his line of sight nearly perpendicular (maximum perception of speed), and later at 75 m I'm suddenly spotted. And just in the moment that a rock wall and a bush are in between.

With such inconsistency in AI decisions it is normal to see people who say that they are spotted without reason, perhaps they are.

 

 

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Fast crawling increases the chance of him spotting you. If you're in the field of view of an AI it's best not to make sudden movements and if so, only slow ones.

Might be something in the config of the bush or rock that makes them not work as intended.

AI and concealment has never been better.

 

 

And by far my favorite:

 

 

Cheers

[VanZant 48]

Yes to all, but the problem is still there. The speed is the same all the time, the direction, everything, but I'm still being spotted without reason at +20 meters from the beginning precisely when there should be the less probability.

The AI has improved, nobody doubts that, but something is wrong with enemy detection and that's why I hope some developer takes a look on that.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

9 minutes ago, VanZant said:

Yes to all, but the problem is still there. The speed is the same all the time, the direction, everything, but I'm still being spotted without reason at +20 meters from the beginning precisely when there should be the less probability.

The AI has improved, nobody doubts that, but something is wrong with enemy detection and that's why I hope some developer takes a look on that.

As I said, it's probably not in the enemy detection which is working great from what I've seen, it's more likely a wrongly configured bush or rock.

Do you have the coordinates where this is happening or maybe a simple repro mission?

 

Cheers

[Midnighters 152]

God damn, im so tired of seeing these posts over and over again. THE AI ISNT BROKEN! It just operates and works on a level that you cannot see visually. Maybe not even in the way you want it to. 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

45 minutes ago, Midnighters said:

God damn, im so tired of seeing these posts over and over again. THE AI ISNT BROKEN! It just operates and works on a level that you cannot see visually. Maybe not even in the way you want it to. 

It's the 'GENERAL' forum, what did you expect?

Most people aren't even aware that you can sneak up to a manned hostile tank and place a satchel right underneath it.

*sneaks back into darker areas of this forum*

 

Cheers

[Midnighters 152]

9 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

It's the 'GENERAL' forum, what did you expect?

Most people aren't even aware that you can sneak up to a manned hostile tank and place a satchel right underneath it.

*sneaks back into darker areas of this forum*

 

Cheers

People just need to use their brains instead of just posting non sense and jumping to conclusions. 

Ill make sure to check my asss now whenever im in a armouree vehicle, might have people like you GOM with huge fucking bombs ready to detonate at a moments notice. 

[McCaffrey 1]

The AI is terrible in this game. They either aimbot and spin around 180 degrees and headshot you from 1km away and wallhack where you cannot hide anywhere without them seeing you or they are completely dumb and don't even shoot at you and just walk around like zombies

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

39 minutes ago, McCaffrey said:

The AI is terrible in this game. They either aimbot and spin around 180 degrees and headshot you from 1km away and wallhack where you cannot hide anywhere without them seeing you or they are completely dumb and don't even shoot at you and just walk around like zombies

There has been plenty of proof that the AI does not do what you state.

Yet there has been almost no proof that the AI "aimbot spins 180 degrees and headshots you from 1km".

Upload a video of AI doing this.

 

Cheers

[Rich_R 1087]

5 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

There has been plenty of proof that the AI does not do what you state.

Yet there has been almost no proof that the AI "aimbot spins 180 degrees and headshots you from 1km".

Upload a video of AI doing this.

 

Cheers

 

But isn't it easier to come on the forums and state 'X' is broken or 'Y' sucks instead of the poster admitting they may not be the uber-super player they think they are?

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Here something from a post I made last year:

Pretty much debunks the 1km headshot myth.

On 23.7.2016 at 3:43 PM, Grumpy Old Man said:

x3kj is right, the handledamage eventhandler fired even when a bullet left the selection and then again when entering another selection, leading to these huge hit counts.

Revisited script to use HitPart EH:

  Reveal hidden contents

allHits = [];
allHitsTilDeath = [];
allLethalShots = [];

GOM_fnc_hitTest = {

    params ["_unit"];
    _unit disableAI "MOVE";
    _unit setUnitPos "UP";
    allUnits apply {_x reveal [_unit,4]};

    _unit addEventHandler ["HitPart",{

    {


        _x params ["_unit","_shooter","_bullet","_position","_velocity","_selectionName","_ammo","_direction","_radius","_surface","_direct"];

        _hitsTilDeath = _unit getVariable ["GOM_fnc_HitsTilDeath",[]];
        _selCheck = !(_selectionName isEqualTo "");
        _directText = "direct";
        if !(_direct) then {_directText = "indirect"};
            _selections = _selectionName joinString "+";

        if (_selCheck) then {allHits pushBack (format ["%1: %2",_directText,_selections])};

        if (alive _unit AND _selCheck) then {

            _hitsTilDeath append _selectionName;
            _unit setVariable ["GOM_fnc_HitsTilDeath",_hitsTilDeath];

        };
    } foreach _this;

    }];

    _unit addEventHandler ["Killed",{

        params ["_unit"];
        _hitsTilDeath = _unit getVariable ["GOM_fnc_HitsTilDeath",[]];
        _initPos = _unit getVariable ["GOM_fnc_InitPos",getposatl _unit];
        _result =(format ["%1 hits til death, lethal shot: %2 - %3",count _hitsTilDeath,_hitsTilDeath select (count _hitsTilDeath -1),(_hitsTilDeath call BIS_fnc_consolidateArray)]);
        allHitsTilDeath pushback _result;
        allLethalShots pushback (_hitsTilDeath select (count _hitsTilDeath -1));
        hintsilent _result;

        _spawn = creategroup west createUnit [typeOf _unit,_initPos,[],0,"NONE"];
        _add = [_spawn] call GOM_fnc_hitTest;

        {_x reveal [_spawn,4]} foreach allUnits;

        deletevehicle _unit;

    }];
true
};

{

    _x setVariable ["GOM_fnc_InitPos",getposatl _x];

    if (side _x isEqualTo west) then {

        [_x] call GOM_fnc_hitTest;

    };

    if (side _x isEqualTo east) then {

        _x setcaptive true;
        _x addEventHandler ["Reloaded",{

            params ["_unit","_weapon","_muzzle","_newMag","_oldMag"];
        _unit addMagazine (_oldMag select 0);

        }];

    };

} foreach allUnits;

 

This post is being dedicated to everyone that claims AI always headshot him at 2km during full fog with no scope.

 

 

 

Hits from one blufor rifleman "B_Soldier_F" standing upright, 300m away from a regular opfor fire team with every unit in prone position in VR.

From 101 kills total:

 

All lethal shots:

[["head",12],["rightupleg",4],["spine3",23],["spine1",36],["leftupleg",7],["rightarm",11],["rightforearm",3],["leftarm",4],["rightleg",1]]

Hits til death:

[
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["spine1",1],["head",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: rightupleg - [["leftforearm",1],["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1],["rightupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["head",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",2]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["spine1",2],["rightarm",1],["leftupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["leftforearm",1],["spine1",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftforearm",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["leftupleg",3]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["rightforearm",1],["leftforearm",1],["spine3",1],["leftupleg",1],["head",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine3",1],["spine1",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",2],["spine3",2]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",3]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["rightarm",2],["spine3",2],["head",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: rightforearm - [["spine3",2],["spine1",1],["leftforearm",1],["rightforearm",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]"
,"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",3],["rightupleg",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["leftupleg",1],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",2]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightupleg - [["spine1",1],["rightupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",2],["rightupleg",1],["spine1",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["spine1",2],["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["leftupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"6 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",2],["spine1",1],["spine3",2],["head",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightleg",1],["rightarm",1],["spine3",3]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine1",1],["leftarm",1],["spine3",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",2]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1],["leftupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",1],["leftupleg",1],["spine1",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine3",1],["spine1",2]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine1",1],["spine3",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["leftupleg",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["leftforearm",2],["spine1",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",2]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine1",1],["rightarm",1],["spine3",1]]",
"7 hits til death, lethal shot: rightupleg - [["spine1",2],["spine3",2],["rightleg",1],["head",1],["rightupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: rightupleg - [["rightupleg",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftupleg",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["spine1",1],["leftupleg",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["leftforearm",1],["rightforearm",1],["rightupleg",1],["spine1",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",2],["spine3",3]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",3],["spine1",2]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: leftarm - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",1],["leftarm",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["rightleg",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["spine3",1],["head",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",2]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightarm",1],["spine1",2],["leftforearm",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",3],["rightupleg",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["spine3",3]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["head",1]]",
"6 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightforearm",1],["leftforearm",1],["spine1",1],["spine3",2],["rightarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",1],["head",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: rightleg - [["rightleg",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftleg",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["leftforearm",1],["leftarm",1],["spine1",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",1],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: leftarm - [["rightforearm",2],["spine3",1],["leftarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["leftleg",1],["spine1",1],["spine3",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["rightarm",1],["spine1",1],["spine3",2],["leftupleg",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["leftforearm",1],["head",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightupleg",1],["leftupleg",1],["rightforearm",1],["spine1",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: leftarm - [["leftupleg",1],["leftarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: leftarm - [["leftforearm",1],["spine3",1],["leftarm",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine3",1],["leftupleg",2],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",2],["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",2],["rightarm",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: leftupleg - [["spine3",2],["rightforearm",1],["leftarm",1],["leftupleg",1]]",
"5 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["leftforearm",1],["spine1",2],["rightarm",1],["spine3",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",2],["leftupleg",1],["spine3",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",2]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftforearm",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",2],["rightupleg",1],["leftupleg",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["head",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightupleg",2],["spine1",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["head",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",2],["spine1",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["spine1",1],["leftarm",1],["head",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftupleg",2],["spine1",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: spine3 - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",2]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: rightforearm - [["leftforearm",1],["spine3",1],["leftarm",1],["rightforearm",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["rightleg",1],["rightarm",2]]",
"6 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["leftforearm",2],["rightforearm",2],["spine3",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: head - [["spine3",1],["head",1]]",
"4 hits til death, lethal shot: rightforearm - [["rightarm",1],["spine3",2],["rightforearm",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["rightupleg",1],["spine1",1]]",
"2 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["rightforearm",1],["rightarm",1]]",
"1 hits til death, lethal shot: spine1 - [["spine1",1]]",
"3 hits til death, lethal shot: rightarm - [["rightforearm",1],["spine3",1],["rightarm",1]]
"]

 

 

Cheers

[froggyluv 2136]

 

 While Grumpy Old Pants is right -this has and will be observed and stated by many, especially newcomers and casuals until worlds end. The truth is while they cannot "turn and headshot you from 1km with an AK" and their detection system is for the most part very technically sound -they just dont feel right.

 

 The reason for this is many but as usual, I blame lack of reactionary animations, banter and calibrated skills that offer any variance of skill or class - so they all feel 'samey'. If one were to judge the AI of any official content like a campaign - the AI would all feel super Uber and samey because all of their skills are above the magical .2 threshold and I have PLENTY of evidence that this is where the magic dies. A pilot is as proficient as a marksman is as deadly as a crewman etc ad nauseum.

 

 Animations and banter. Games like FarCry and the like are very good at creating tension right before the point of you are detected or not with AI starting to 'question' their surroundings and start searching or getting alerted with accompanying banter. In Arma it is binary - on/off -they see you or they dont. They express no fear, no worry, no aggression -just robotic reaction often way too accurate return fire. This makes engagements far less interesting than they could be with but a little love to this area. We get all of these useless animations for deck crew etc which may be cool once or twice but are soon forgotten -how about if we had 5 new animation for Ai reactions such as startled, pointing at possible threat, scared and running etc...

 

Yes its easy for us vets to become complacent and explain away that the Ai are technically sound leaving the newbie flustered as they are unable to properly articulate their frustration but the feeling will remain and drive many away with a shrug and disappointment.

[dmarkwick 261]

I have had great experiences with AI in this game, but recently I've noticed that once you are spotted, or that once you are noticed (i.e. you fire at them and they hear you) you can be seen and tracked far more accurately than in the past. In the past it was still a chore to lose an AI's attention, but lately it seems..... worse. As an experiment I upped the fog to high levels, and they seem to ignore the fog, which I'm pretty sure they didn't used to. Vanilla ArmA3.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

1 minute ago, dmarkwick said:

I have had great experiences with AI in this game, but recently I've noticed that once you are spotted, or that once you are noticed (i.e. you fire at them and they hear you) you can be seen and tracked far more accurately than in the past. In the past it was still a chore to lose an AI's attention, but lately it seems..... worse. As an experiment I upped the fog to high levels, and they seem to ignore the fog, which I'm pretty sure they didn't used to. Vanilla ArmA3.

Not true, as long as you break line of sight they may know where you have been but you can easily outflank them.

Check the last video I posted above, I reveal myself to the AI, so he knows I'm "somewhere" near him, but he has no clue about me sitting behind that bush, not more than 1m away.

 

While the sameyness froggyluv mentioned is true, it's also a feat of the sandbox. In games like morrowind or similar you got writers writing dialogue, interaction and whatnot, in a sandbox like arma it's entirely up to the mission maker.

 

Cheers

[dmarkwick 261]

10 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

Not true, as long as you break line of sight they may know where you have been but you can easily outflank them.

Check the last video I posted above, I reveal myself to the AI, so he knows I'm "somewhere" near him, but he has no clue about me sitting behind that bush, not more than 1m away.

 

While the sameyness froggyluv mentioned is true, it's also a feat of the sandbox. In games like morrowind or similar you got writers writing dialogue, interaction and whatnot, in a sandbox like arma it's entirely up to the mission maker.

 

Cheers

 

I've done that also, but still the feeling pervaded, which is why I tried the fog. In situations where I cannot make out the enemy because of fog, the enemy can always track me if there's "line of sight" and I was previously revealed. So I cannot use fog to lose an enemy, which I might expect to do.

 

I also tried affecting the setUnitTrait "camouflageCoef" property, although I can hide if not revealed, once revealed that coef seems to mean nothing any more.

 

(There's also some recent problem with smoke sources, so I expect smokeshells may no longer have their previous obscuring powers, but I haven't tested  that.)

[froggyluv 2136]

45 minutes ago, Grumpy Old Man said:

While the sameyness froggyluv mentioned is true, it's also a feat of the sandbox. In games like morrowind or similar you got writers writing dialogue, interaction and whatnot, in a sandbox like arma it's entirely up to the mission maker.

 

Cheers

 

 Lets look at that.

 

~Skills: Mount and Blade is a great example of skills being seen and actualized in real time and it is most definitely of the sandbox genre. You can physically see, ingame, a higher skilled AI reactions and movement as compared to a lower tiered one. Hell you can even feel and sense it of your own player character's skill level. Swords move faster with more intricate combinations, speeds, chambers etc. For Arma -the math is all there in subskills but for some reason it is calibrated totally wrong. Yes we can re-calibrate them to our liking but their official content is supposed to represent the game -the challenge we have before us - and they do it all wrong. Asking us to do it ourselves is like saying

 

"Hey have have you heard of this great game Chess?"

"No, how do the pieces move?"

"Anyway you want!"

 

 ..kinda leaves ya with an empty checkered board...

 

Wouldnt you find Arma far more interesting if in a mission you were told your small recon team was going to infiltrate a barracks stationed with lowly Supply guys -and it actually play out that way. Or vice-versa -your being stalked by a highlevel Spec Op team and actually feel more fear and tension? That the experience would actually offer something different, exciting and worth remembering?

 

In short, BI officially calibrating their skills to represent class and level to a more reaslistic military levels would not impact the sandbox nature of the game -those that wanna play Life should be the ones asked to recalibrate them to Bartender or Dope Dealer -not us.

 

~Animations/Reactions: Well last time I checked Arma is still sold as a Military sandbox -not Zombie, Life or even Survivalist - Tho even those wouldnt suffer as low tier vs high tier troop reactionary animations were placed in the game. A low level Civilian would be the equivalent of a very green type of troop vs a more firefight technically sound Spec Op/Policeman - I really see no problem here and at the very worst, give us a trigger to pull the Vanilla button if it interferes so much. really, the vanilla animation system of 'prelude to a firefight' really really needs a buff to make them a more unique experience. I actually use a script given to any spec op troop that if a gun is pointed at him at less than 20m CQB, he may do that fancy side-step animation and his skill temporarily buffed to 1 to make him that deadly up close. Its cool but comes off as hackey (especially since they glide in that animation which was pulled from the game) and just expect BI to be leading in this area -not dropping the ball to us in lieu of MP.

 

 Again I dont see the problem of implementing more interesting 'tension time' animations that would benefit Arma and all of its bastard offspring the same.

 

 

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

Well put.

AI definitely needs some work in terms of animations and optical/audible feedback to their surroundings regarding their own skills/abilities.

Made a snippet that lets AI scream when being hit or cheer when taking down an enemy.

Entirely different atmosphere.

 

Cheers

[VanZant 48]

Here is the exact mission of the video Download. Crawl fast towards the red sphere and you will be detected always at the same place.

[Greenfist 1863]

There is something fishy about that those rocks. Or maybe it's the rock and bush combined, or the ground right on that spot where he detects you, maybe the grass heights is incorrectly defined.

 

(red = he sees me, green = I'm out of sight)

I tried to replicate this by moving closer to the rock wall, and moving the AI unit in different places, but your repro was the only place where the detection seemed off.

edit. after a little more testing, it seems a bit too random to be a faulty model/config. It could be just that my ass is showing above the grass right there. And as we know the grass doesn't effect the AI exactly as it does us.

[dmarkwick 261]

5 hours ago, dmarkwick said:

 

I've done that also, but still the feeling pervaded, which is why I tried the fog. In situations where I cannot make out the enemy because of fog, the enemy can always track me if there's "line of sight" and I was previously revealed. So I cannot use fog to lose an enemy, which I might expect to do.

 

I also tried affecting the setUnitTrait "camouflageCoef" property, although I can hide if not revealed, once revealed that coef seems to mean nothing any more.

 

(There's also some recent problem with smoke sources, so I expect smokeshells may no longer have their previous obscuring powers, but I haven't tested  that.)

 

Here is a sample test mission where I display my idea of how AI visibility in fog is skewed.

Test 1

1.1 Start mission, fire 1 shot into the air.

1.2. Slowly walk toward the enemy (forward along the runway).

1.3. Observe he will spot, identify and kill you way before he ought to.

 

Test 2

2.1.Same as above, but try to flank him instead in the deep fog. Note that you cannot, fog seems to be irrelevant.

 

And actually, the camouflageCoef and smokeshells seem to be working. So no worries there.

[BohemiaBeck 305]

Thread cleanup removing offtopic. Locked.

 

Edit: Re-opening this so discussion can continue. Please keep it on topic.

Edited May 16, 2017 by BohemiaBeck
re-opening

[Romanze 16]

The AI see through the smallest crack and shoot me. Once, I was laying down behind them, not moving, and they spin around and 1 shot me. If I am trying to shoot over a crest of a hill with grass, they see me before I can even see them, and kill me. I wish there is a way to change how much percent of me they have to see. Right now if they see my pinky nail through 2 leaves, at 1km away they shoot at me. IRL people would not be inspecting every crevice of every bush, grass, and buildings at all times. Maybe it can be changed to where their vision range is close up unless their alarmed. For sure, the AI needs work. Those who disagree must not experienced this yet.

[Khazul66 4]

In general I find the AI will see me through visual obstacles when I cannot see them:

- Fog - even way beyond the distance threshold of visibility for us.

- Prone in long grass at several hundred meters - neither me nor team mates have fired a shot, nor broken cover and yet were are getting shot with precision and should have no reason to be known to the enemy.

- Behind most bushes/foliage (perhaps tanoa is better marked up?). 

- Tanks shooting at buildings/towers that I am in when I have been lying down since long before any enemy could have seen my location (during invade and annex)

 

When playing invade and annex most of us have learned that the only cover to trust for concealment is terrain and even then you have to over-compensate. Rocks and buildings may protect, but they do not seem to reliably conceal. I often hear experienced squad leads telling people not to trust the elephant grass or trees or bushes etc to conceal you and only trust 'hard cover' ie rocks, walls and terrain and abandon towers (because being prone and hiding isnt good enough) when tanks are nearby etc. Long grass when prone seems to be basically useless and non-existent from the AI view point and only seems to serves to obscure our view (not that of the AI).

 

Perhaps this works better on the newer maps? Maybe its a markup and terrain level of detail problem?

 

Reaction times including aiming seems to be generally unreasonable, particularly tanks being able to react, and perfectly aim their guns or turret (when previously aimed away from you) in an unreasonable amount of time.

 

 

[VanZant 48]

There are some flaws regarding enemy detection and definitely the enemy sometimes has superman eyes, but it could be solved via modding mostly with the command setUnitTrait.

I was trying to do that, testing sight ranges, and as seen in the video and the repro mission REALLY there are magic spots where the enemy sees you without reason. Maybe it's a problem with geometries, not the AI itself.

 

If the developers could expose some harcoded AI features there would be possible to do a lot of interesting stuff to make corrections:

- Manage the "Automatic combat/danger mode".
- Manipulate the "KnowsAbout" level.
- Other kind of AI levels.

[EDcase 87]

I agree the AI spotting has some problems:

My suspicion is that the AI are using low resolution terrain geometry to determine line of sight.

 

Other issues:

AI share your position exactly between them.

They can spot and identify you with only a tiny portion of you visible.

Trees do not block AI vision as much as human vision is blocked. (I suspect the viewblock geometry does not extend as far as the foliage so they can see through the outer edges)

Fallen trees do not viewblock at all.