The Blackfish is not powerful enough

[Wiki 1558]

Hey guys.

Is it just me or isn't the blackfish powerful enough?

Don't you think BIS should increase the damages it can make?

 

I mean, unless you make a direct hit, it almost makes no damage, even with the 105mm.

A hit 1 or 2 meters next to an APC or a car and it's still operationnal...

[snoops_213 75]

Yep I second this! The indirect hit range on its weapons should be increased. The 105mm should be increased by at least 1-2m maybe slightly more. And a loiter autopilot and either the guns zero'd to the crosshairs or a lead indicator for it and the sensor systems stabilized.  

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

I think it's alright, the accuracy just needs to be tweaked. However, I wouldn't mind if they made the Blackfish like the Spectre instead of the spooky and added some ATGMs to the wings for more multirole other than ground saturation

[deltagamer 612]

The V-44 has quite a few problems that haven't been addressed yet sadly. Firstly I feel the model design choice was poorly made as I think the V-44 variants should have been a quad rotor design instead of the normal V-22 design. Secondly the V-44 (Armed) isn't really suited for player use unless there is good communications and piloting taking place (which isn't always available, especially in SP). I also think the guns are setup incorrectly as there isn't any use of the FLIR pods on the nose and side of the aircraft by any of the gunners or co-pilot. I think a 360 IDWS would have been more suited for the V-44 (Armed) as that allows a less gimmicky way in order to use the system (also lets the V-44 cover its own LZ without an escort aircraft since most helicopters can't keep up with it). As much as I love the AC-130 design of the weapons I don't think its very friendly to use in MP or SP as other factors can effect accuracy especially at high distance/speeds.

 

I understand that the V-44 will not receive any model adjustments as its way beyond its dev stage however having a few of the issues at least fixed in this ticket I made would be great. https://feedback.bistudio.com/T117966

 

Overall I personally think the V-44 (armed) is outmatched by the Y-32 Xi'an, I would love to fix the V-44 myself but with no samples released its not possible

 

Edit:

 

I just noticed the V-44 now allows the Co-pilot to use the forward FLIR pod which is great, although there is a lod selection issue when viewing from the camera and the Pod itself not moving with the direction of the camera its still a good step forward.

 

 

 

[CaptainAzimuth 714]

Yeah, it's not quite the solo vehicle that's for sure, however I have done it a few times and made good use of it. It's more of a special purpose asset, not well used for most situations, and can only take 3 rockets before going down.

 

Also, Quad Rotors aren't practical URL, especially in such a massive aircraft. Take a quad wing utility vehicle and shoot One wing off. Now it's going to crash and you lose 3 expensive engines, not to mention the instability of 3 rotors, which would be no different than simply 2. Lose one and you only lose one more engine on crash. Less money for asset loss and Maintainence.

[deltagamer 612]

1 hour ago, darksidesixofficial said:

Yeah, it's not quite the solo vehicle that's for sure, however I have done it a few times and made good use of it. It's more of a special purpose asset, not well used for most situations, and can only take 3 rockets before going down.

 

Its not so much that its a bad solo vehicle its more the fact its role as a vtol gunship was wrongly placed. It really should have had an IDWS to allow the V-44 to defend itself un-escorted when landing/departing at an LZ instead of the AC-130 style weapon system. Personally the AC-130 style would have been better suited for a plane in the Jets DLC. 

 

1 hour ago, darksidesixofficial said:

Also, Quad Rotors aren't practical URL, especially in such a massive aircraft. Take a quad wing utility vehicle and shoot One wing off. Now it's going to crash and you lose 3 expensive engines, not to mention the instability of 3 rotors, which would be no different than simply 2. Lose one and you only lose one more engine on crash. Less money for asset loss and Maintainence.

 

I'm not too bothered about it being a QTR or not but if it was I would imagine it would have worked exactly like the V-22 but with a greater carry capacity. If one rotor got damaged it would still continue to work similar to how the V-22 currently does it IRL. If both the V-22 and V-44 had a wing ripped off then they both would be screwed as they won't be able to perform an emergency gliding landing, a V-44 (QTR) may have more chance of survival but that's just theory.

 

Check out page 14 (26) of the V-22 handbook, the rest of it is quite a good read as well : http://www.boeing.com/ospreynews/2011/issue_01/final_8jun2010_179638.pdf

 

 

[Wiki 1558]

- The blackfish doesn't make enough damages IMHO. They should be increased.

- There is no accuracy with the visor - we must always estimate where the shots will hit and count on luck. There should be something to indicate it or have a zeroing on the crosshair - come on, it's 2035! Even the AC-130 is more accurate!

- The blackfish doesn't engage infantry. Only vehicles and AA infantry guys. But a simple platoon, it won't fire at it.

 

Please, fix it!

For the moment, it can't be used in mission making...

 

Plus, the loiter waypoint and the blackfish = doesn't work properly...

 

I can't make a proper "defend your position" mission with enemy infantry coming in while overhead a blackfish provides air cover because it's broken... :-(

[-SaS- Setinha 7]

really need a buff, does't has a lock is hard to hit someone running

[snoops_213 75]

Latest dev branch added weapon pediction point to blackfish yay thanks guys will try this in the next couple of days. 

[dragon01 902]

It's still hard to hit anything. Hopefully, they'll see my post on the issue. It doesn't need much, just the ability to lock on the ground (like UAV turrets and the TGP) and the ability to move the guns horizontally so that the predicted impact point is closer to the reticle.

[snoops_213 75]

All the Blackfish needs now is the man sensor and for the damn thing to stop doing strafing runs! This last one is the big one imho when it comes to these and AI in missions. While i can get it to work ok with the loiter wp it usually wont attack groups of people unless i somehow make the crew aware of them or it goes completely bat shit and starts strafing them, with no success because of the side firing guns. I would love to see the default behavior to be climb to say 300-500m and start to circle on its targets. Do this and the Armed Blackfish would be pretty much complete, well maybe increase indirect hit range on the 105mm and 40mm   would be nice too :) 

[OMAC 254]

I tried the Blackfish for the first time this weekend, in the editor.  As far as I can tell, the Armed variant is completely useless whether human or AI-controlled in SP without extensive scripting.  At this time, it appears that Blackfish is an MP-only weapon that can be used effectively only with human pilot and gunners.

 

SP, AI-piloted:

• Will not engage infantry
• AI gunners will not engage at all when flyInHeight altitude is above ~400m
• With human gunner, the AI pilot will NEVER fly counter-clockwise around enemy in Loiter waypoint so that guns are pointed toward enemy.  As gunner, I never could get even one shot off with AI pilot
• AI-crewed aircraft will be destroyed in 15-30 seconds in any engagement with autocannon- or missile-equipped forces at default flying altitudes.  Any Marid, Kamysh, or Tigris with default skill will take down the Blackfish so quickly that it is useless for any type of engagement, at least with no support from other types of friendly forces.  In about 10-20 tries, AI-crewed Blackfish scored zero hits on enemy ground forces using Loiter waypoints.  Several enemy tanks and IFVs took out a wing of 6 AI-controlled Blackfish in about 5 minutes.  With one or more Tigris, the Blackfish will be taken out in even less time.
• AI pilots only perform direct strafing runs even though aircraft has no forward-facing weapons

 

SP, human pilot:

• Armor is so weak, and weapons so ineffective (low splash damage for 105mm) and difficult to aim, that every mission against mechanized forces is a suicide mission.  AI gunners score nowhere near enough hits to be effective against multiple mechanized ground units.  AI ground forces score hits on the slow-moving Blackfish 90+% of the time.  After 2-3 volleys of ground fire, Blackfish is going down. 

 

What would be cool is if co-pilot could mark a target or ground point with front-facing FLIR pod around which pilot would then loiter in counter-clockwise direction, tilted to left so that guns would point near the marked target/point...  In a sense the co-pilot would be setting a loiter WP for the pilot based on a laser marker.

 

[Wiki 1558]

Now that the last DLC is out, can BIS team focus on improving the V-44X Blackfish please?

 

It's still very underpowered.

The 105mm splash radius is 0.

 

Just tried it, a 105mm hit  3meters to a human and the guy is still alive and running.

Seriously...

 

Also, the AI gunner will (almost) never engage ground targets - unless the  V-44X Blackfish is engaged - and still, not very well.

 

Just put a riflemen squad and V-44X Blackfish loiter over them : it flies but never shoot.

I must fire at it for him to engage ground targets otherwise it will do nothing.

 

Last thing: has the visor / HUD been changed? Or is it just me?

It doesn't seem to be the ones it used to be and the "approx hit spot" doesn't show up anymore.

 

I wish there could be something like this for this plane:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=10136

 

So, what really needs to be done:

 

• improved damages value and damages area
• improved AI behaviour (AI gunner finally engaing ground units)
• restore the HUD for the gunners

Thx

 

EDIT:

I'm uploading a video to show what I mean.

105mm at infantry units and no damage (or barely).

[snoops_213 75]

27 minutes ago, Wiki said:

Now that the last DLC is out, can BIS team focus on improving the V-44X Blackfish please?

 

It's still very underpowered.

The 105mm splash radius is 0.

 

Just tried it, a 105mm hit  3meters to a human and the guy is still alive and running.

Seriously...

 

Also, the AI gunner will (almost) never engage ground targets - unless the  V-44X Blackfish is engaged - and still, not very well.

 

Just put a riflemen squad and V-44X Blackfish loiter over them : it flies but never shoot.

I must fire at it for him to engage ground targets otherwise it will do nothing.

 

Last thing: has the visor / HUD been changed? Or is it just me?

It doesn't seem to be the ones it used to be and the "approx hit spot" doesn't show up anymore.

 

I wish there could be something like this for this plane:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=10136

 

So, what really needs to be done:

 

• improved damages value and damages area
• improved AI behaviour (AI gunner finally engaing ground units)
• restore the HUD for the gunners

Thx

AI gunner issue is an easy solve, adding the man sensor component to the axis of one of the guns set to around 1200m works great. In a loiter wp set to careless and open fire the AI spot and engage men with all the weapons and dont tend to go into the stupid dive attack they usually  do. As for the weapons i think they all  need a slight tweak on hit range, but not by much, if the man sensor is ever officially put into the Blackfish that alone greatly helps without the need to over extend ammo range. 

 

Yes the gunners HUD/UI has been changed. Look at a spot then Lase spot ( T button or whatever you use) and your rounds will land where your sight is aimed at instead of having to lead into the target. 

[Wiki 1558]

Here is a video:

 

 

 

The guys can survive several hits of 105mm...

 

ArmA 3, no mod, stable branch, version 1.82

 

This really needs to be fixed!

 

 

EDIT:

Also, I put myself as gunner, because the AI gunner would never engage at all those ground units - whereas there were as "aware" and "fire at will".

The behaviour "not engaging" really needsto be fixed aswell.

[Harzach 2517]

HEAT-MP is not an anti-infantry round. The Blackfish should have a mix of HEAT/HE, or just HE. That's the real problem, IMO.

[Wiki 1558]

I am no expert, but I doubt that a hit within 1 or 2 meters raduis wouldn't kill you - even with HEAT shell.

 

A direct hit can destroy a Marid but not kill a man.

Come on...

[Harzach 2517]

It's essentially an explosively formed penetrator, there is no huge explosion or fragmentation. It is designed to defeat armor by focusing all of its energy in a very small area, similar to APFSDS. I'm not at my PC now, but I wonder if there is an HE round available for that weapon type. It would be a serious oversight if not.

[Wiki 1558]

Yes, but the blast of a 105mm ammo should be sufficient enough.

[Harzach 2517]

For what? To shape the penetrator and propel it through armor? Certainly. 

 

I'm not saying there's no problem, I'm saying the problem is outside of your focus. The 105 should absolutely be far more effective against infantry, but the solution isn't increasing the splash damage of an ammo type that shouldn't have it, the solution is using the correct ammo. The 105 should be using HE-FRAG, not HEAT.

[Wiki 1558]

I totally ageee.

Have HEAT against vehicles and HE against infantry.

 

I'm just saying that, even with HEAT ammo, I think that the blast of a 105mm shell would kill or severely damage a human.

[Harzach 2517]

The explosive content of a HEAT round is in the form of a shaped charge, and is focused solely on forming and propelling the penetrator. There really isn't much area of effect, and firing it at a high angle into earth would mitigate AOE even further.

 

The last round in this video is HEAT:

 

[Harzach 2517]

I suspect this is another one of those ill-conceived balance-driven limitations that our otherwise beloved devs have cursed us with.

[Grumpy Old Man 3546]

19 hours ago, Wiki said:

Yes, but the blast of a 105mm ammo should be sufficient enough.

As stated by @Harzach, the default loaded ammo in the blackfish 105mm cannon is a HEAT round, without HE or MP.

These are all available magazines for that 105mm cannon:

["40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Red","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Green","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Yellow","100Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow"]

This will add 10 of every compatible magazine to the blackfish:

{vehicle player addMagazines [_x,10]} forEach ["40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Red","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Green","40Rnd_105mm_APFSDS_T_Yellow","100Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Red","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Green","20Rnd_105mm_HEAT_MP_T_Yellow"]

 

Go wild.

 

Cheers

[Wiki 1558]

Thx for the tip, very useful.

 

However, my point was just that, the blast of a 105mm shell, HEAT or not, should be sufficient enough to kill 1 man within 2 or 3 radius.