smallarms NIArms Release Thread

[LoNiC 0]

Awesome package, just installed the complete package on my exile server.

 

Got some question, hope someone can give a rough and quick overview:

1. How does the damage compare with standard fictional arma3 weapons?

E.g.

M60/MK MOD vs. Zafir

AWM vs. LLR/CYRUS/LYNX/MAR  (is the awm damage on that level or more on 762 sniper level?)

FN FAL 762 vs. MK18

M14DMR vs. Exile DMR(Arma2)

With standard rounds.

 

2. Many weapons have CIS version. What does it stand for? 

 

3. Are there any weapons in that have this fixed attachment glitch which allows duping?

 

Greetings and thanks for the pack! Hope that someone can especially give some information about the overall weapon damage philosophy of this pack compared to standard A3 weapons.

Edited January 25, 2017 by LoNiC

[Pagan Min 0]

delete

Edited January 26, 2017 by Pagan Min
Posted on wrong account

[Chaingunfighter 103]

9 hours ago, LoNiC said:

Awesome package, just installed the complete package on my exile server.

 

Got some question, hope someone can give a rough and quick overview:

1. How does the damage compare with standard fictional arma3 weapons?

E.g.

M60/MK MOD vs. Zafir

AWM vs. LLR/CYRUS/LYNX/MAR  (is the awm damage on that level or more on 762 sniper level?)

FN FAL 762 vs. MK18

M14DMR vs. Exile DMR(Arma2)

With standard rounds.

 

2. Many weapons have CIS version. What does it stand for? 

 

3. Are there any weapons in that have this fixed attachment glitch which allows duping?

 

Greetings and thanks for the pack! Hope that someone can especially give some information about the overall weapon damage philosophy of this pack compared to standard A3 weapons.

1. The damage is based off of the real ballistic systems. Sometimes you may see them perform "worse" than vanilla guns against armored units, but that's not how it's actually supposed to work and a fault of the base game's handling. Luckily all of the packs are fully compatible with ACE so you can always use that if you want consistency with the vanilla weapons. In practice, too, you'll still get generally the same performance (I.e. the NIArms M14 and 'MK18' will kill an unarmored guy in one shot.)

2. Assuming you mean "RIS", which stands for Rail Interface System. These versions have a MIL-STD-1913 "Picatinny" rail attached somewhere (usually for optics, sometimes for bipods/lasers/lights, often both) in lieu of a proprietary system (such as the AKs which have their own unique optics) or ones that have none at all because of their age or inherent design. They're just designed to give you more options during play.

3. AFAIK no.

[LoNiC 0]

Thanks for that quick reply.

 

So when you say real balistics system, it means that an AWM with 762 caliber and 5 shot magazine does about the same damage as any of the vanilla 762 weapons which have e.g. 10 or 20 size magazines? That would be a bit of a bummer, as I hoped to get another higher tier sniper with that AWM.

 

So some non RIS version of weapons that have RIS versions of the exact same type cannot hold any or some attachments, right?

 

I am for sure going to do tests on my own as soon as I get someone to help me out with that and feels like shooting at me ;-). Just want to get clear about as much as possible before I start hours of tests with different kind of bullets etc.

 

Edit: I just found that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/111f0poB2GtEIAGbJwNxs2Gwaj9oQ79wVNr2tBBUexQ8/edit#gid=1286392137

I am a lucky guy I guess, if these values are still correct.

 

 

According to this list Mk.316 and Barrier Ball are the strongest types of ammo when they are available. Still trying to figure out why they are sometimes even at the very same level and why numbers of equal caliber mags vary that much. Do some of these numbers get discounted vs. non-armor or armor targets?

Edited January 26, 2017 by LoNiC

[war_lord 934]

Okay, let me explain. Arma 3's vanilla ballistics are all pulled out of nowhere. Arma 3's guns also only have generic "FMJ" ammo.

NIA arms ballistics are provided by a bloke called Spartan, who gets his results from the actual ballistic performance data of rounds in reality. So for example Bohemia's 5.56 in quite anemic, but the NIA version is much more powerful. There's no such thing as "stronger ammo" look:

This is an EPR round It's the standard round issued by the US Army, and it's designed to punch through body armour and light cover with that big steel penetrator. But it's not as effective against flesh because it's prone to over penetration (going right through the target).

This is an MK262 round It's a match grade round designed for use out to 700 meter by Special Operations Forces. It has an open tip to increase accuracy and lethality, but because the tip is hollow and there's so much space in the nose it's going to have trouble going through cover.

This is an MK318 round It's a compromise between penetration and lethality. And it's what US SOF currently load their SBR's with.

None of these rounds are "strongest", just doing different things. To answer your 7.62x51 question, MK 316 is a match grade round for long range sniping. The "Barrier ball" is actually MK 319, and it's basically the 7.62 equivalent of MK318, good accuracy and lethality without sucking against cover. 

 

[LoNiC 0]

Alright but in arma all that somehow gets translated into a single damage value.

 

So does the HLC ammunition have these hidden attributes behind that single damage value still or were these attributes you name just used to determine that single damage value and therefore that value is all that counts without any discounts and increases?

 

I want to create somewhat stringent price and rarity tier levels.

 

Ingame trader tells me the following:

HLC M60 mag:        9 dmg

HLC M60 mk319:  14 dmg

Zafir mag:              12 dmg

PKM mag:              16 dmg

SPMG mag:           14 dmg

Navid mag:            18 dmg

 

Here it barely makes sense to me (from a gameplay and balance perspective) that the PKM mag does more dmg than the zafir, m240 mag and even the spmg one.

The mags have different muzzle velocities though. The m60 mags are the fastest, followed by the zafir mag.

 

 

Out of the sheet that I posted above:

HLC M60 mag:        9.1 dmg

HLC M60 mk319:  13.8 dmg

Zafir mag:              12.9 dmg

PKM mag:              - dmg

SPMG mag:           15,6 dmg

Navid mag:            20 dmg

 

Are the values from the sheet potentially either incorrect or a result of any math consisting of raw dmg value multiplied with velocity?

 

Trying to make an order in tier for these weapons and the corresponding ammo. Of course including all the lower calibers as well. But to keep it easy I wanna understand it with just them first.
 

If I just added the 6.5 mag 100/200Rnd to that list

Trader: 100/200Rnd 10dmg

Sheet: 100Rnd: 10.7; 200Rnd: 11.2

it becomes even more troublesome as then the standard 7.62x51 caliber rounds would do less dmg than the 6.5 caliber one. Of course I could fix that by just allowing higher dmg mags for the 7.62x51 weapons. Realisms is important for me, but most important is a somewhat stringent tier graduation for balance/gameplay reasons. An M60/MK MOD with 9 dmg would not make much sense to use here if you can have 200Rnd 6.5 with 10 or even more dmg or a PKP with 16 dmg.

 

 

[war_lord 934]

Delete

[war_lord 934]

Toadie's gonna take this question shortly.

[toadie2k 799]

7 minutes ago, LoNiC said:

Alright but in arma all that somehow gets translated into a single damage value.

 

So does the HLC ammunition have these hidden attributes behind that single damage value still or were these attributes you name just used to determine that single damage value and therefore that value is all that counts without any discounts and increases?

Short answer, Arma ballistics aren't a single variable damage equation, even without ACE ballistics added to it. Damage is calculated by -

• Speed : The speed at which the bullet traveling that inflicts the highest damage- as the bullet's speed slows, it deals less damage
• Air Friction : Controls the rate of decelaration on the bullet. It's simulating the relationship between the ambient atmosphere and the aerodynamic efficiency of the bullet. The less aerodynamic, the faster it bleeds speed.
• Caliber : Not actual caliber, it's a cover-all number to determine the piercing capabilities of a bullet when it strikes anything. Tin Shed, Body, Body Armour.
• Hit : Base impact damage. The only way to achieve the full value of this is with the bullet at it's ideal/max speed.

Every gun in arma uses these, it's the standard ballistics model. When you fire, all of this comes into play, plus gravity. Speed affects damage, Friction affects speed, Speed and caliber affect penetration of objects (like armor), hit,caliiber and speed determine how much damage a shot will impart.

 

There's no real "best" bullet round for any gun, as what your target is changes which one is more suitable. Subsonic Are GREAT for up close with a suppressor (preferribly not against kevlar), but they're worse than useless for long range shooting, and likewise you wouldn't want to use SPR up close in amongst no-shoot targets. Best advice I could give is if you're ever unsure, EPR/Ball/FMJ is probably fine enough for most blind dates with the enemy. Other stuff is when you know which lipstick you want to paint him with.

 

Speaking of blind dates -

Coming soon.

[LoNiC 0]

Thanks man, that clears up alot for me.

 

Just one thing left to ask.

 

Is the damage value that the trader shows for each kind of mag the value that goes into the equation to determine the real damage with all the other factors you named or is it a kind of averaged damage value that comes out of that equation in the end after taking all other factors into account?

 

I guess the first must be the case. That would explain the values from the sheet alot better.

[toadie2k 799]

In Exile? I'd assume the first, it's kind of hard to make definitive statement on that though. Would recommend asking the the Exile devs to be sure.

[LoNiC 0]

Yes exile. I guess the trader is reading out values correctly (rounded). 

 

And sorry for being pertinacious and that this is not about the HLC weapons/mags:

So out of that equation it is relatively safe to say that the PKP/PK with the PKM mag (16 dmg, 800 velocity) deals more damage than the zafir (12 dmg, 800 velocity) in any situation of close range, as they both have the same caliber and therefore piercing capabilities? Any statement about longer range performance would need to take air friction into account, which values I don't possess, right? (assuming the dmg value of the trader is the on hit damage you explained which goes into the equation with velocity etc.).

 

Actually it would make sense to just drop the vanilla weapons altogether at this point.

 

[alessiomoreno 43]

Hi there folks (:

Had a couple of questions I just wanted to drop here:

First - in regards to the "new" soundscape feature I wondered how many of the NIArms Weapons already got their fair share of polishing in this department?
In very rough figures, how much has been already done?

The last RHS Update brought us custom muzzle flashes for almost all of their weapons, hence I've been wondering, whether that's something you've considered for your modpack as well?

I read some where on this thread (or the old one), that a couple of weapons, those where the underlying base model was not originally created for the ArmA Engine, could, in large(r) numbers,
potentially, dampen FPS rates. Now, since I use a lot of NIArms weapons in my missions, but would at times like to equip the AI with NIArms loadouts as well, I wanted to know, whether there
is something like a list of which weapons exactly fall under this category, or whether we could have one. Has anyone ever run into a frame-rate issue, potentially, caused by this? Is it a even thing?

And lastly, as always, thanks a lot for you stellar work Toadie, you're mod pack really elevates the whole ArmA experience! [To quite some degree ;)]
Sincerely hope you're doing well  :)

 ~

[Guest]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:45 AM, war_lord said:

The coming SIGs are all of the "P226" family. The P320 is a Glock-like striker fired polymer pistol.

Does the "P226 family" include just the different calibers of P226 (9mm /.40 Short & Weak / .357 Sig)? Or are we going to see a 227/228/229 as well?

[da12thMonkey 1943]

42 minutes ago, b00ce said:

Does the "P226 family" include just the different calibers of P226 (9mm /.40 Short & Weak / .357 Sig)? Or are we going to see a 227/228/229 as well?

Read the description Toadie posted here

http://imgur.com/wVaN7a5

[shomu1 193]

The RHS muzzle devices (SFMBs and whatnot) used to be able to be compatible with the ARs in NIAarms as of RHS 4.1.1.  Since 4.2 they don't seem to fit right.  Where they used to replace the stock flash hider, now they just sit inside said flash hider.  Is this an issue on RHS' end?  It's a minor thing, but just wanted to check.  I really liked that the RHS muzzle brakes worked with the NIArms guns.

[CameronMcDonald 146]

14 minutes ago, shomu1 said:

The RHS muzzle devices (SFMBs and whatnot) used to be able to be compatible with the ARs in NIAarms as of RHS 4.1.1.  Since 4.2 they don't seem to fit right.  Where they used to replace the stock flash hider, now they just sit inside said flash hider.  Is this an issue on RHS' end?  It's a minor thing, but just wanted to check.  I really liked that the RHS muzzle brakes worked with the NIArms guns.

 

The compatibility PBOs probably need to be updated; IIRC Toadie hasn't had a release since RHS' latest patch.

[Bitesrad 481]

On 25-1-2017 at 2:45 PM, war_lord said:

The coming SIGs are all of the "P226" family. The P320 is a Glock-like striker fired polymer pistol.

 

On 25-1-2017 at 2:47 PM, toadie2k said:

 

No, Too different, Some stuff might carry over, but considering I just got done UV mapping like 5 slides and 6 frames, I'm not keen to add a 7th right now

 

Alright cool, dont really know a lot about sigs so I figured Id ask anyway ;)

[Guest]

19 hours ago, da12thMonkey said:

Read the description Toadie posted here

http://imgur.com/wVaN7a5

Bueno. The P228 is gonna get some use from me because its almost identical to my M11-a1.

 

[Hvymtal 1251]

Yeah unlike the 92 the P228 hasn't changed much over the years so if you're looking for an M11 you'll be in good shape :)

 

I wonder when someone's going to start asking about the P320 now that it won the MHS runoff...

[Pan Samogon 197]

Toadie,do you have plans to make some more MINIMI variants?I mean some nation specific variants.

If yes,I can provide you some references.

[toadie2k 799]

 

38 minutes ago, Hvymtal said:

Yeah unlike the 92 the P228 hasn't changed much over the years so if you're looking for an M11 you'll be in good shape :)

 

I wonder when someone's going to start asking about the P320 now that it won the MHS runoff...

They already have ;)

FWIW to those curious, the 228 will have the German Rolled and Stamped slide, and the 226 comes in a similar form also.

Speaking of the M11, I've posted this on Twitter, but I probably should bring this across to here. Keep in mind so far I've only done 9mm -

 

 

2 minutes ago, Pan Samogon said:

Toadie,do you have plans to make some more MINIMI variants?I mean some nation specific variants.

If yes,I can provide you some references.

Not really, not an immediate concern TBH.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, toadie2k said:

FWIW to those curious, the 228 will have the German Rolled and Stamped slide, and the 226 comes in a similar form also.

Speaking of the M11, I've posted this on Twitter, but I probably should bring this across to here. Keep in mind so far I've only done 9mm

You sir, are a gentleman AND a scholar.

 

Might I suggest slightly tweaking the hand animation to get the web of the thumb higher up on the grip? Kinda like pic related.

[toadie2k 799]

I'll do what I can, but I'm working with arma's animation system, which usually is workable, kind of nosedives into awkward territory for the handling of pistols.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Hi toadie, just letting you know another person is being really helpful and posting your mods on steam... http://steamcommunity.com/id/amit9821