Diplomatic incident between Russia and Turkey

[red oct 2]

I doubt anything will come of this.Turkey isn't some little poor country that can be pushed around. I read somewhere that the area where the incident occurred was populated by ethnic Turks. 

[semiconductor 309]

I doubt anything will come of this.Turkey isn't some little poor country that can be pushed around. I read somewhere that the area where the incident occurred was populated by ethnic Turks. 

Well, while a direct military response is indeed unlikely there are couple of ways Russia in which can retaliate. Some of them political and economical, one of them is... uhm... humanitarian support to certain oppressed nationality (Russia is notoriously good at it).

Turkey might not be little and poor but it certainly doesn't have the brightest leaders either. Apart from feeling of national pride Turkey got nothing from this attack and will most likely suffer a substantional damage to its reputation, political and economical interests. The only party that have gained from this incident is ISIL.

[dontknowhow 33]

I doubt anything will come of this.Turkey isn't some little poor country that can be pushed around. I read somewhere that the area where the incident occurred was populated by ethnic Turks. 

Yes, turkmen. Supported by Turkey.

Turkey will have to calm down, even NATO said it.

[red oct 2]

Yes, turkmen. Supported by Turkey.

Turkey will have to calm down, even NATO said it.

I can't really fault them though for wanting to look out for their own though, after all Russia invaded 2 countries and annexed territories from both under that pretext. I think if Europe had just allowed Turkey membership into the Union some years back, they wouldn't feel the need to go and try to try to expand their sphere of influence east towards Syria. 

[semiconductor 309]

I can't really fault them though for wanting to look out for their own though, after all Russia invaded 2 countries and annexed territories from both under that pretext.

[X] did that first, so it's completely justified for [Z] to do that now, huh? Humanity wont last a week with that approach.

[dontknowhow 33]

I can't really fault them though for wanting to look out for their own though,

I agree, but the way they did it wasn't very smart.

The real problem is that maybe the Turks (actually, moderate rebels) are not getting more support. On the other side, they are not being very nice to the Kurds, which at the end are saving the day, or at least trying. Unlike everybody else

 

I think if Europe had just allowed Turkey membership into the Union some years back, they wouldn't feel the need to go and try to try to expand their sphere of influence east towards Syria. 

Not sure about it, but taking Turkey in this condition is out of the question. Not even this mass migration was enough.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I can't really fault them though for wanting to look out for their own though, after all Russia invaded 2 countries and annexed territories from both under that pretext. I think if Europe had just allowed Turkey membership into the Union some years back, they wouldn't feel the need to go and try to try to expand their sphere of influence east towards Syria.

But in between, Erdogan and Muslim brothers were elected in Turkey. The political change isn't only nationalist, it's also ideologic.

[dontknowhow 33]

Russians say the plane has been in Turkish airspace 30 seconds or less. Sounds about right.

Even without being an expert I think I can say the Turks are getting out of their mind. I hope more will be made clear.

[sudayev 27]

Speech of the Chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Lt.Gen. Sergei Rudskoy on provocative actions of the Turkish Air Force

 

 

http://eng.mil.ru/en/news_page/country/more.htm?id=12066682@egNews

 

 

In order to evacuate the Russian pilots from the landing point, a search-and-rescue operation was conducted by two Mi-8 helicopters. In the course of the operation, one of helicopters was damaged by small arms fire and performed an emergency landing in the neutral area. One contract serviceman – member of Marine Troops – was killed.

The personnel of the search-and-rescue team and the helicopter crew were evacuated and are now at the Hmeymim airbase. The helicopter was destroyed by mortar fire conducted from the territory controlled by illegal armed groups.

[d_lukin 16]

(eng subs)

 

 

 

Everyday the news makes playing Fallout 4 less and less fun..

[semiconductor 309]

Everyday the news makes playing Fallout 4 less and less fun..

No wonder, interesting and captivating plot have never been Bethesda's strong point.

 

On a serious note, I'm sure neither the rest of NATO countries nor Russia want to wipe eachother out of existence over a stupid action of Turkish government. So unless someone makes another very dumb move I think it's safe to assume that Bethesda will be able to release a couple of boring DLCs.

[St. Jimmy 272]

(eng subs)

 

Everyday the news makes playing Fallout 4 less and less fun..

S-300 will be deployed on the shore of Latakia. That means if Turkish aircraft will even cross the Syrian border by an inch, somewhere around the point where Russian one was shot, it will(could, depending naturally if it can be locked) be targeted and shot on sight.

[sanctuary 19]

Where and when was this fabled alliance signed? :rolleyes:

No alliance signed of course but you know what i mean  :rolleyes: ,  the base of such alliance/cooperation is implied for the countries that accepted of the recent UN resolution .

http://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12132.doc.htm

[Nicholas 5]

The Russian warplane, although in Turkey's airspace, obviously did not have any malicious intentions.  It should not have been shot down, especially when it was only passing through the airspace.  I feel that Turkey should be removed from NATO.

[pulstar 55]

S-300 will be deployed on the shore of Latakia. That means if Turkish aircraft will even cross the Syrian border by an inch, somewhere around the point where Russian one was shot, it will(could, depending naturally if it can be locked) be targeted and shot on sight.

 

Hey, when did Fins suddenly become fans of Russia? :D

 

 

No alliance signed of course but you know what i mean  :rolleyes: ,  the base of such alliance/cooperation is implied for the countries that accepted of the recent UN resolution .

http://www.un.org/press/en/2015/sc12132.doc.htm

 

Russia is in Syria to prop up their ally, while NATO is there for different reasons. The intersection of interests doesn't mean an alliance, only a temporary understanding. They'll get back to bickering over Ukraine soon enough. Putin's fanboys don't seem to get this.

[altis 12]

That was a stupid move by Turkey.

 

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger

 

 

 

"Moscow plans to suspend military cooperation with Ankara after the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish air forces, Russian General Staff representatives said on Tuesday. Further measures to beef up Russian air base security in Syria will also be taken."

[red oct 2]

Turkey might not be little and poor but it certainly doesn't have the brightest leaders either. Apart from feeling of national pride Turkey got nothing from this attack and will most likely suffer a substantional damage to its reputation, political and economical interests. The only party that have gained from this incident is ISIL.

I duno, what kind of damage to its rep do you reckon Turkey will suffer? Its not as if the EU was about to finally grant the Turks full EU membership or that it even had much of a favorable view from Europe to begin with and given the state of the economies of Europe I doubt they would even want anything to do w/ EU membership now. They seem to have good support from the Saudi's and other wealthy Sunni Arab states so I doubt they have anything to fear from possibly getting kicked out of NATO either. I think they realize that and are happy to assert themselves knowing nothing will happen to them that they can afford to do with out. 

[tortuosit 486]

I think Erdogan sees himself in a world leader line beside Putin and Obama. King of the middle east. Glorious illustrious leader. Germans are cheering, when he comes to Germany btw and big arenas are filled.

My guess is, he is more dangerous, as he is not cool enough.

On the Russian side btw., what if we had Vodka Yeltsin? Dangerous. But hey, in Europe we have learnt to blame Russia. But not yesterday. Least I can say is, in German mainstream media there were not many responses of German politicians and there was not the usual Russia bashing. By the way, if a NATO jet would have been shot down, say, by Belarus, who would be blamed by western media? So simple. Our media truths lie so clear and simple in front of us - they can only be wrong. :)

[semiconductor 309]

I duno, what kind of damage to its rep do you reckon Turkey will suffer?

Turkey might be considered as an unreliable and undesirable member of the alliance. Erdogan used NATO membership as an instrument to be able to flex the muscle Putin-style, he basically screwed the interests of all other NATO countries, gave Russia a formal reason to retaliate against the whole alliance, accidentally gave FSA a very bad publicity (there is no "moderate war crimes" in Geneva convention) and then ran to the NATO with his tail between his legs begging for protection. Not to mention that he allegedly did all this to protect his son's oil business that is heavily reliant on ISIL convoys.

[Eight Ball 16]

The russian ambassador in France said to Europe1 (french radio) that a coalition with France, the US and Turkey against Daech was still possible.

He said the russian were looking forward to create a common "staff" (état-major in French) which would go beyond the current cooperation.

 

http://www.europe1.fr/international/alexandre-orlov-une-coalition-contre-daech-est-encore-possible-2625649

 

Also, according to him, the second pilot was retrieved by the Syrian army.

[semiconductor 309]

I think he just keeps Russia's options open while Moscow evaluates the situation and decides upon the best course of action. Meanwhile S-400 systems and additional Su-30 fighters are being prepared for Syrian deployment, so much for the coalition.

[spooky lynx 73]

Here's how rescue group from damaged helo got help from Syrian troops, who covered them with suppressive fire and prevented the rebels to come closer to Russians.

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack,"© Erdogan, after Turkish F-4 been shot in Syrian airspace, 2012.

[d_lukin 16]

youtube.com/watch?v=ROgOqqeQAL4

 

tried to translate this, here's what happened:  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_WLCxqjZG4

[Tonci87 163]

Well we know that Russia isn´t too shy to manipulate or outright fabricate evidence (see Ukraine) but in this case I´m inclined to believe them. Maybe their aircraft did pass over Turkish airspace for a very brief time but that is no reason to shoot it down. Even if it did pass over Turkish airspace it was out of there so fast that the Turkish fighter must have pursued it into Syria to fire off it´s missile.

[ProfTournesol 956]

With AA weapons Russia is going to install on Syrian border, Turkish AF would better not pursue Russian planes into Syrian airspace again.