Recoil Overhaul Feedback

[roshnak 41]

Maybe learning to pull down your weapon manually after each shot is easy if you've played Counter Strike for years, but to most people it will be extremely unintuitive.

Yeah, you're probably right. Using the mouse to control where you're aiming in a first person shooter is totally unintuitive. I know that everyone I've ever played with has started shooting and immediately shouted, "Whoa! Where's my aim going!? I don't know what to do! This is so confusing!"

Yeah, point taken, i'm getting simillar results with targets @20m, no zoom.

Zoom decreases dpi, so it's a trade-off.

Thanks for the vid.

How much zoom are we talking, here? Just the regular "hold mouse 2" zoom, or are you slapping a magnified optic on your SMGs?

Edited May 9, 2015 by roshnak

[NotMoreZombies 10]

You have a mouse to aim with, use it, IRL it's not like the weapon sets itself back into the position it was before shooting, it's the shooter doing it, period.

You want to take gravity into play, fine, the guns fall to the ground without the player countering it, not back on target, sounds very fun indeed.

Regarding the intuitivity, what's more intuitive thing to do when your crosshair isn't on target than to put it there? Wait for it to go there on its own? That's bullcrap.

That's pretty much exactly what happens IRL. The gun bounces up from recoil, and then falls back to it's original position through the combined effects of gravity and the shooters unconscious muscle memory. Making the player manually control something that is automatic to real soldiers is as silly as, I don't know, having the player constantly push their gun upwards to counter the gun's weight. That's not something soldiers have to constantly worry about, so why should the player?

The more intuitive thing is to expect guns to behave as they do in reality. In real life, automatic bursts of fire don't leave machinegunners confused and staring at the sky.

And again, I'm not alone on this:

[twisted 128]

Why expect the character to have 'muscle memory' with a rifle which you yourself cant develop with your mouse? but a little practice and you get better at it (im pretty crap but i go slow and use cover so that makes up for it in my case)

At the range my gun never centres itself. If i just used 'muscle memory' the grouping would be embaressing and probably wouldnt even hit the targets. I have to line each and every shot up. Arma3 at least gets a little close to that.

maybe be helpful if you dont go full auto so often. try use semi auto unless you are prone and preferably with your bipod deployed. many militaries teach their guys to use semi auto, and while arma 3 isnt a military simluator it does some things nicely.

Edited May 9, 2015 by twisted

[Brisse 78]

Semi auto should be considered the default mode. Full auto is just for room clearing and suppression. This goes for reality as well as the game.

[Kerc Kasha 102]

That's pretty much exactly what happens IRL. The gun bounces up from recoil, and then falls back to it's original position through the combined effects of gravity and the shooters unconscious muscle memory. Making the player manually control something that is automatic to real soldiers is as silly as, I don't know, having the player constantly push their gun upwards to counter the gun's weight. That's not something soldiers have to constantly worry about, so why should the player?

The more intuitive thing is to expect guns to behave as they do in reality. In real life, automatic bursts of fire don't leave machinegunners confused and staring at the sky.

And again, I'm not alone on this:

Just saying other people agree with you doesn't mean you are correct.

Shooting in game needs skill, managing recoil needs skill. If our arms were rock solid 100% of the time and there was zero recoil there'd be zero effort to actually hit targets. If you do not like recoil at the moment make a mod don't ask the devs to remove all sense of recoil just because you can't be bothered to learn how to shoot

[enex 11]

It's boils down to 2 schools of thought.One is your mouse controls recoil with your input,

while the other argues that hands themselves control recoil with muscles.

I'm with second option since I believe that in real life you learn to control recoil with your

muscles, stance and hand position, while in game all that applies on weapon return after climb

which is subtracted with time.(shot pause, shot pause -> accuracy / shot,shot,shot -> inaccurate climb)

You take shot, you wait your muzzle to go down, repeat the practice.(The muscle, the stance

and hands position returns weapon down.

[machineabuse 11]

Both methods are expressive abstractions of reality. Depending on your method of handling a firearm, many weapons do not exhibit muzzle rise at all in full auto. Staying on target is a matter of trying to keep the 'hose' pointed in a chosen direction, not necessarily just "down", but wherever the muzzle wants to point after recoil has pushed it against your body and your body has pushed back on it. ArmA 3's expression as simple muzzle rise give the player something they can exert some control over with familiarity that can be learned and the end result is relatively authentic. Over time it has improved greatly from what it was at inception, will better systems exist in the future that are better facsimiles of reality than what is currently in game? Probably. Do any exist in other games now? That's debatable.

Having to drag down muzzle rise is something you as a player can get better at, just like putting a hard limit on muzzle rise and redirecting the cone when you hit that hard limit. Both are abstractions of the same thing and both have pros and cons.

I do think that ArmA's system can break down a bit for a low mouse sensitivity user. Not a problem for me but I think people who are effected may want to focus on that grievance rather than try to find reasons the whole system sucks.

[ratszo 17]

The recoil system is good.

I just think the vermint ain't performing up to spec.

Watch the real-life Vector in action:

[CaptainObvious 95]

That's pretty much exactly what happens IRL. The gun bounces up from recoil, and then falls back to it's original position through the combined effects of gravity and the shooters unconscious muscle memory. Making the player manually control something that is automatic to real soldiers is as silly as, I don't know, having the player constantly push their gun upwards to counter the gun's weight. That's not something soldiers have to constantly worry about, so why should the player?

The more intuitive thing is to expect guns to behave as they do in reality. In real life, automatic bursts of fire don't leave machinegunners confused and staring at the sky.

And again, I'm not alone on this:

That video is hilarious, yea, you get a bad time if you aren't even trying to control your gun.

I don't have to think putting my sights back-ish on target, not at the range nor in Arma, it comes from the spine.

[machineabuse 11]

Not much point in discussing the recoil of a build of the game 2 years out of date y'knowwhatI'msayin?

[twisted 128]

one thing im finding is that the recoil is its too slow on the initial upward/reaerward/sideward impulse. should be a very sharp fast motion. the newer marksman weapons have it better.

SO was wondering if there's anyway to speed up the initial force of the rifle to be more like the real thing in the new settings?

Edited June 4, 2015 by twisted

[kOepi (DayZ) 3]

class CfgRecoils 
{
class recoil_zafir
{
	kickBack[] = {0.02*1.4, 0.08*0.04};
	muzzleInner[] = {0,0,0.0,0.1,0.1};
	muzzleOuter[] = {0.5*0.2,1*1,0.4*1,0.3*1};
	permanent = 0.1*0.4;
	temporary = 0.01;
};



what do those * mean? Can the threadstarter explain this, please? Thanks