Grass concealment and stances

[lev 21]

Hi guys,

Has there been any word from BI whether or not the current state of grass concealment will be worked on in the marksmen update?

The main problem that we're experiencing right now is that a player who is prone in grass is actually at a disadvantage in terms of visibility compared to someone who is prone on a road/tarmac or crouched or standing. The main reason for this is draw distance where the prone player is seeing all the rendered grass while someone on a tarmac/road, crouched or standing is not seeing the rendered grass. I'm sure many Arma players are familiar with this scenario where you are prone crawling through what appears to be pretty high grass and then suddenly you are being shot at despite not being able to see your attacker and being surrounded by grass.

Since the marksmen DLC aims to improve weapons handling and includes features like weapons resting and bipods, this would be a great opportunity to fix the grass issues as well since weapons resting and bipods probably depends on the player being prone in many cases. I know BI still uses their "sinking" the model into the ground solution but this is still inadequate as it results in the problems described above. Fixing this issue will "revolutionize" the base game play in a lot of ways by changing how basic combat is conducted over terrain.

An interesting solution has been posted about here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3505

Any word from BI on if this issue will be fixed or addressed?

[dnk 13]

No.

I severely doubt it will be in the next DLC. It's not specific to weapons. I also doubt it will be in the expansion, simply because such are my expectations.

Something needs to be done, but midrange textures and grass concealment are two things BIS is dragging its feet hard on.

[HaZZarD 2]

Indded, now that bipods are coming I think the two big missing are working concealment and working suppressive fire

[st_dux 26]

[we're missing] working suppressive fire

What constitutes "working suppressive fire"? Suppressive fire is just a high volume of fire in the direction of the enemy. Are you referring to the AI reaction (or lack thereof) to such fire?

I'd say that while grass (and shadow!) concealment at distance is a very important missing feature, the most important feature missing from the series is the ability to create trenches and foxholes that are beneath the surface of the terrain. This is a critical component of infantry combat that has simply never been modeled in the series.

[nullsys 10]

What constitutes "working suppressive fire"? Suppressive fire is just a high volume of fire in the direction of the enemy. Are you referring to the AI reaction (or lack thereof) to such fire?

I'd say that while grass (and shadow!) concealment at distance is a very important missing feature, the most important feature missing from the series is the ability to create trenches and foxholes that are beneath the surface of the terrain. This is a critical component of infantry combat that has simply never been modeled in the series.

Sadly due to the way the terrain/map is created, this will never be available in the current engine.

As far as distance and grass goes, I'm sure they are concerned with generating low FPS, due to the strain. As such, I can't really see them adding it in.

It's why I always disable grass when I can. Snipers will just have to hide in bushes.

[Janez 531]

This could be "fixed" very easily. Mod does this for Arma 2 and probably for Arma 3. Just lower grass height. Ground still look nice up close and you can fire while prone perfectly. Currently I have it off. Ground looks ugly but grass in this state is just a gimmick.

I'm not sure how distant targets are done now, BI switched it around quite a bit trough out Arma games. Half of target being sunk into the ground and the part in the ground being invincible is a terrible solution. Especially with their shield.. em I mean rifle in front of their head :D.

[ajsarge 10]

Last I knew, if your grass detail is turned down low, the terrain mesh is raised to cover the grass. Prone soldiers are covered by this mesh, and if you zoom in the mesh is lowered so you can see their head. When I have a chance I'll dive in and do a test at multiple detail levels.

[jakerod 254]

Sadly due to the way the terrain/map is created, this will never be available in the current engine.

As far as distance and grass goes, I'm sure they are concerned with generating low FPS, due to the strain. As such, I can't really see them adding it in.

It's why I always disable grass when I can. Snipers will just have to hide in bushes.

I'm not normally a "VBS has it so we can have it" type but this is one instance where I think it applies. A trench system probably not but a single foxhole I think would work. In VBS, the AI has a hard time moving around "underneath" the surface which is probably why we don't have tunnels and trenches yet. But in a foxhole they wouldn't have to move. They would just have to stand there and shoot. Maybe crouch once in a while. There might be more to it than I realize though.

[KeyCat 131]

Last I knew, if your grass detail is turned down low, the terrain mesh is raised to cover the grass. Prone soldiers are covered by this mesh, and if you zoom in the mesh is lowered so you can see their head. When I have a chance I'll dive in and do a test at multiple detail levels.

It's the same on the other settings, i.e soldiers outside the grass range sinks down a bit if the go prone in a grassy area. Would love to see a better solution because now it's easier to spot one that is lets say 100 m away in the grass than if he was 10 m and thats the opposite of how it works in RL.

/KC

Edited January 25, 2015 by KeyCat

[Bouben 3]

It's the same on the other settings, i.e soldiers outside the grass range sinks down a bit if the go prone in a grassy area. Would love to see a better solution because now it's easier to spot one that is lets say 100 m away in the grass than if he was 10 m and thats the opposite of how it works in RL.

/KC

Absolutely.

[kocrachon 2]

Day Z has a better concealment settup, the ghillie suit there actually fools people... So perhaps some day.

[roberthammer 582]

Day Z has a better concealment settup, the ghillie suit there actually fools people... So perhaps some day.

Well you can fool people even in arma 3 (if you find good place to hide) just the AI spots the ghillie suit almost instantly after you fire :p

[roguetrooper 2]

In the Arma series grass has always served two purposes:

* singleplayer: eye candy

* multiplayer: a disadvantage for the one lying in grass (it blocks the view for this person but this person can be seen by others from far away, since the grass is not rendered).

[Roddis 27]

To celebrate the Splendid step ahead  on this aspect two and an half years later!!!

 

 

[brightcandle 114]

The sinking in the ground to attempt to compensate for the lack of grass rendering is just as big a concern really. It makes marksmanship a lot harder since the feet disappear into the ground even when there is no grass and does little to aid visibility reduction. A better solution using shaders to blend them into the background would be very welcome at this point, but also extremely unlikely.