Uniform/Vest Addon Makers: Keep Mission Makers in Mind PLEASE!

[singleton 22]

I am not sure where exactly I should put this, so if it can't go into discussion feel free to move it wherever. Nonetheless I wanted it to actually get some visibility.

Seriously, addon makers, I LOVE most of your work but there is a trend that if addressed, could really make it easier on us mission makers. There are some of us around that not only make missions, but try out best to represent equipment as authentically as possible for different forces. One of the biggest gripes I have as a mission maker, is that addon makers throw flags and patches on everything! Hey news flash, this is ArmA3! Guess what? I could have used your Crye Precision OCP for Russian SF, British SF, African SOF, Canadian SF or even a representation of insurgent forces who have been funded well and have privately owned gear. But no, I can't...why? Because it has US flags thrown all over it! Now I'm limited to using that uniform to represent one single force whereas I could've used it for almost an infinite amount of scenarios.

Your LBT 6094 or your chest rig? Yeah, not only US guys use chest rigs! Literally by throwing all of this stuff on it, you are limiting us mission makers incredibly. Now I'm not saying to change your addon, because after all it IS yours and you can do whatever you want with it. However, I do ask that a little bit of consideration is given and maybe add one texture with flags, and another texture free of all identifiers.

Now some of you may say, well just don't use the addon...like I said, I am not complaining about the addon being made, I am just stating the facts that an addon maker can increase the amount of usability for their addon exponentially if they keep us mission makers in mind a little bit. I'm sorry for this rant, but I've been creating a scenario with Brits, Americans and Aussies and the amount of uniforms I COULD use, is absurd. A3 is great because I can mix and match addons all I want to suit my needs, but I cant' because what would be good for Aussies, Americans and Brits to use, I can only use for Americans because it has US flags thrown all over it.

/endrant

[tasksoldier121 80]

I understand and agree your point, and I think this something that should happen already, and just to remeber we got the emblem system now. But national flags aside, how you feel about moral patches?

[singleton 22]

For example, theres some vest out there which has a 'Dont Tread on Me' morale patch. I was going to use the vest for independent Russian Ultranationalists but now I can't. Because why would a Russian UA throw on a plate carrier with a US military morale patch lol? Just to clarify, I have no issues with patches, they're great and add a bit of flair and individuality except #1 you have a team of 12 guys all with the same "Dont Tread of Me" patch...doesn't look right. My gripe is that there are no options for us mission makers who try to go above and beyond for the sake of immersion. Sure, add the patches, but add a clean vest with nothing also. Same for uniforms.

[Chapple 1]

10/10 Keith well done

[tasksoldier121 80]

maybe hiden selections

so you can put your patches too

[singleton 22]

Hidden selections would work too, it would be great if there were a few choices but then that has to be re-ran every time that unit respawns and for every client. IMO it would be better to just leave it bare. The only guys who religiously litter their kit with patches are airsofters anyway. Yes, we do it in the military but it's not like everyone throws patches everywhere like its a game or something.

[themistercat 11]

I like to put patches everywhere like it's a game, because well, it is a game :D

[singleton 22]

I like to put patches everywhere like it's a game, because well, it is a game :D

I never said it wasn't a game, but remember there are others playing the game also. And the addon maker who actually gives a bit of extra thought to the guys who will ultimately be responsible for distributing their addon, will win the day. Like I said, do whatever you want with YOUR addons. But it wouldn't be dreadfully hard to finish a clean model, make a config for it THEN add patches and make another config with the same inheritance just different texture path. But what do I know, I'm only a community administrator for ~160 people. Who cares lol

[BadHabitz 235]

I think people are going to make the mods they want, and they're not always really thinking of what the greater community wants... and that's perfectly fine. If I want to make a mod that has national specific patches, then perhaps I really don't care if you want to use it for whatever it is you're doing. It's fairly obvious that some of the choices I make might decrease the overall options that end users can take advantage of. Maybe I want my mod to be used by the greater community, and if so then I should know that I need to make design choices that make my work palatable by a wider spectrum of users.

You're saying mod makers should keep in mind flexibility and usability of their mods, but in the end we're making the mods the way we want them to, and I don't think you need to tell anyone anything.

[singleton 22]

Something tells me you didn't read the OP.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

For the Re-skins I make for my community, I include a combo for every nation represented in my group. So no one feels left out or forced to rock another nations colors unless they want to.

[BadHabitz 235]

Something tells me you didn't read the OP.

Really? What makes you say that?

If I want to make a mod of the US 101st Airborne division, and I put all of the patches on the uniforms, well maybe I'm not too worried about you using it for another purpose.

[PolyG 69]

I think people are going to make the mods they want, and they're not always really thinking of what the greater community wants... and that's perfectly fine. If I want to make a mod that has national specific patches, then perhaps I really don't care if you want to use it for whatever it is you're doing. It's fairly obvious that some of the choices I make might decrease the overall options that end users can take advantage of. Maybe I want my mod to be used by the greater community, and if so then I should know that I need to make design choices that make my work palatable by a wider spectrum of users.

You're saying mod makers should keep in mind flexibility and usability of their mods, but in the end we're making the mods the way we want them to, and I don't think you need to tell anyone anything.

^ +1. I'm making a mod in my free time.. Out of my own desire. If I want to make a "Fuck all!" Vest with Nothing but a Red white and blue scheme, I will down right do that. Its my own decision as the creator. Granted as he said, if I want more to use it I'd consider it and change it. But in the end its a modders right to add whatever patches and flags they want, since they are taking the effort and making it.

[singleton 22]

Really? What makes you say that?

If I want to make a mod of the US 101st Airborne division, and I put all of the patches on the uniforms, well maybe I'm not too worried about you using it for another purpose.

Seriously, addon makers, I LOVE most of your workbut there is a trend that if addressed, could really make it easier on us mission makers. There are some of us around that not only make missions, but try out best to represent equipment as authentically as possible for different forces. One of the biggest gripes I have as a mission maker, is that addon makers throw flags and patches on everything! Hey news flash, this is ArmA3! Guess what? I could have used your Crye Precision OCP for Russian SF, British SF, African SOF, Canadian SF or even a representation of insurgent forces who have been funded well and have privately owned gear. But no, I can't...why? Because it has US flags thrown all over it! Now I'm limited to using that uniform to represent one single force whereas I could've used it for almost an infinite amount of scenarios.

Your LBT 6094 or your chest rig? Yeah, not only US guys use chest rigs! Literally by throwing all of this stuff on it, you are limiting us mission makers incredibly. Now I'm not saying to change your addon, because after all it IS yours and you can do whatever you want with it. However, I do ask that a little bit of consideration is given and maybe add one texture with flags, and another texture free of all identifiers.

Now some of you may say, well just don't use the addon...like I said, I am not complaining about the addon being made, I am just stating the facts that an addon maker can increase the amount of usability for their addon exponentially if they keep us mission makers in mind a little bit.

First and foremost: This thread is addressing the addon makers who frankly; care about the following of their mod. And are willing to give consideration to those who download their addons and want to see their addons used as much as possible and don't mind lending a hand where it is feasible.

If you are not one of those authors, and you are making an addon for yourself and solely yourself and you do not feel the need, or desire to listen to community input from people who love you addons, then so be it. This thread is NOT addressing you. This thread is for those who may be trying to get into addons, or maybe an addon maker who didn't pay any mind but didn't make a conscious decision to disregard mission makers. Or someone who might not mind taking few extra minutes to help someone else out besides your own personal desire.

Like I said, I am asking for a little consideration, for those who want to use your addon. If you want to choose the low road and go the 'well I'm making it in my spare time' then sure, have at it. I won't use an addon from an author that won't support those that support them, and as you have made clear, you do not care. But there are authors out there who care about the greater community and the usability and longevity of addons being made.

I am not asking for a completely different uniform to be made. I am asking for 2 or 3 lines in the config and an extra texture path to make things easier on us mission makers. Literally that can be done in 20 extra seconds BEFORE you throw whatever patches you have on. It is truly not that difficult and would go a long way for some of us, but that's fine. I administrate a private community, so we can change it on our own and it stays in-house. It would be nice for the consideration to come out of the box. But that's just my $.02

It was people like us who supported most of YOU through MANW.

Edited December 27, 2014 by Singleton

[Rich_R 1087]

I think your message may be lost in your approach, not just with the OP but also your responses.

I've read your type of request from others; 'Mr mod maker, please make your creation open enough for me to add (blank)'. Bearing in mind I agree with you, the manner the thread was presented and handled may limit the cooperation of the mod makers.

If I had mod making skills, I would certainly make any creations with hidden textures. But some don't and that's their right. Maybe they're moving onto the next creation or maybe they don't want the likes of you and I tinkering it? Who knows.

But to react to Mistercat who is making some nice stuff, ironically vests and I believe with hidden sections, with 'Sonething tells me you didn't read the op' and nothing else? Charming.

I will say what you should've replied to him. Thank you for your hard work and from what I've read on your threads, you seem to agree with the focus of this thread. What else can I say to modmakers to help further this cause of hidden selections and replacable patches?

More bees with honey.

[iamthesux 10]

But to react to Mistercat who is making some nice stuff, ironically vests and I believe with hidden sections, with 'Sonething tells me you didn't read the op' and nothing else? Charming.

Sonething tells me you didn't read the post above it :p

[PolyG 69]

It was people like us who supported most of YOU through MANW.

I'd like to state. Your missing your MANW Supporter tab. As well as you need to remember what I said earlier - Its OUR Free time. OUR effort. I make mods for MY enjoyment. The few I release are ones friends request, Not that I plan on. If I want to release, I'll release what i want, How I want. Posting a thread and complaining then asking for "A little consideration" is to me, kind of lazy. If you want your own things to match your mission, make your own retextures of the vanilla. Anyone can do it - and if you put the right init line, you can use it. Remember that. Rather than go straight to the Addon makers - Use a little more time on the mission. A lot of us are working hard with Life, Jobs, and Families that come BEFORE modding. I get your frustrated at this or that - But remember. Its our right to do as we please with our content.

[heavygunner 179]

I make mods for MY enjoyment.

As he said before he isn't adressing you and this isn't a complain just feedback.

He should rewrite it a bit, but there is no reason to be upset about this.

[warlord554 2065]

We are sorry that after the sleepless nights, headaches, and countless man hours working on free content for the community that we didnt make everyone happy. We do have you guys in mind, thats why you get public releases. All one has to do is make a simple request to the author, and most would be happy to oblige you. In the end a simple thank you would suffice, not a thread complaining about what you dont get

[lewisd 10]

We are sorry that after the sleepless nights, headaches, and countless man hours working on free content for the community that we didnt make everyone happy. We do have you guys in mind, thats why you get public releases. All one has to do is make a simple request to the author, and most would be happy to oblige you. In the end a simple thank you would suffice, not a thread complaining about what you dont get

This thread is not complaining about anything us mission makers do not receive. It is simple feedback on how many mods could be further improved. It seems like a lot of people are seeing this as an aggressive post when the true aggressor is the one who does not take the time to read. If you make mods for your enjoyment, then that is fine, but as far as I know you are going to be releasing it to a larger community, full of diverse thinkers, that may see your mod and think, what else could this be used for in my mission? To get this thread back on track, I do believe that many mods do include many patches, that may have been required by the mod maker or his/her community. From what I have seen vests and many helmets in real life do not come stock standard with insignia and patches (flags,skulls,etc.). So I think the point that Singleton is making is that he and many other users of said mods would love to also be able to use these vests or helmets for more than one purpose which seems fine to me. With Arma 3 having a really great modular gear system, you can match a ton of different items to get a really good end product for your mission.

As far as re texturing other people's mods for your own needs goes. The time it takes for someone to re texture someone else's mod is time that could also be spent at work, or with family, or w/e. While as a mod maker all it takes is a save, as of when the patches are added. This way you have two versions of the texture and could very easily put that into the mod pack. I know many mod makers who do spend a lot of time making their gear, some more than others. And when their gear is changed or altered whether it be through re textures or just taking the models and using them in your own mods, they do not like that especially when they have not been spoken to prior to that. For those bashing on singleton for not having the voters tag, or somehow bashing on mod makers, as he has stated he administrates and creates missions for a very large community. The time he puts into the missions and the community is huge. When MANW was out there and some great modders were posting their entries, he took the time to go around the teamspeak and get people to vote for those mods, such as ALiVE for example, that got about 200 votes in one day just from the community. May I also add that the opinion of "Maybe i'm not too worried about you using it for another purpose" in my own opinions seems very single minded, considering it is a very large community that is not only going to use your mod but will be judging it. As you have stated, it is your time, and your effort, and Thank You for that time and effort, this is just some feedback on how many people feel about the mods in Arma 3.

/end...

[themistercat 11]

Wow, this thread has really spiraled out of control. Singleton, I think all the negative responses is just because the way you worded your initial post, because when I read it I don't think "Hey the Singleton guy is a cool duderino, I should remove my patches for him". While I do think addons should have the option to remove patches, most modders who wan't this feature, probably have it implemented in their mod, and this thread probably won't change the minds of the other modders who do not offer this option.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

TFA International Pack has no patches on it. Use His stuff.

[Tsark 12]

While the form might not have been the subtlest of all, i generally agree with op' s point, many things nowadays are used by dozens of countries, or at least their elite units, prime example of that are Multicam Uniforms or few years back Eagle Ciras body armors, so when it is not too much added work, it is nice of addon makers to think about it and make patchless/flagless variations.

I fully understand that addon makers aren' t paid and as such are making their contents primarily for themselves of couse, and thus will make whatever they want the way they want.

TFA International Pack has no patches on it

Plus 1 to that, it is great.

[BadHabitz 235]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disagreeing. I like when mod makers make decisions that maximize the use of their mods. It just feels insulting that the OP comes across thinking that people don't already know, and that we're lucky he's here to tell us such things.