Enhanced Movement

[nickorr 11]

As for me it looks like climbing is performed flawlessly, but the fact#1: the bed (and other furniture) doesn't have walkable surfaces on top - this makes the character hovering over such objects. And arma's usual mechanic is to push the hovering characters up till they maybe find surface to stand. And here comes the fact#2 - the ceiling is quite close, so arma pushes the character up till he slips through the ceiling.

 

While looking at the code in the mod I came to idea, that the easiest way could be to check if there is free space (no intersections) right above the "target point", lets say, for 1.5 meters. So that if there is a possibility that arma could push through the ceiling - than just disable the ability to climb in this point (on the detection phase).

But I'm not sure that all the mod's code is designed exactly as I imagine, and my possible solution even possible.

[nickorr 11]

Here's video to show what I am talking about. Note that this is another room, where the ceiling looks a bit higher, so the character doesn't slip through, but it is seen that it's very close one.

 

[nickorr 11]

The similar problem with hopping over:

 

 

 

 

 

And another building as another example on the same topic:

 

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by nickorr

[Vasily.B 529]

Is there some way to make Ai using this as well? That would be extra hard game then :P

[DarkSilencerZA 2]

nickorr, these obstacles are not able to be walked on, which is why it's glitching like that. It can do the same thing on certain ArmA 3 roofs etc. It's not a bug within the mod, it's you trying to be a cake by trying to climb onto obstacles that cannot be climbed and / or walked on.

[bad benson 1733]

 

As for me it looks like climbing is performed flawlessly, but the fact#1: the bed (and other furniture) doesn't have walkable surfaces on top - this makes the character hovering over such objects. And arma's usual mechanic is to push the hovering characters up till they maybe find surface to stand. And here comes the fact#2 - the ceiling is quite close, so arma pushes the character up till he slips through the ceiling.

 

exactly.

 

as i said i'm pretty sure there is a check like that already. of course i could go back in there and increase the range or something, and i will at least try that, but my experience is that it will break another situation where it works as intended right now.

 

generally keep in mind that indeed you can go and try to find ways to abuse this specifically and you will surely find some. but it's always down to the geometry of the models themselves too combined with the nature of this mod being dynamic and not like in a AAA title where all climbable edges are carefully prepared.

 

by in-/decreasing limits you can easily cripple the whole thing in a lot of other places. it's all a fine balance to make it work where it should. an example would be smaller windows right inside the limits. i can already see them being broken by giving that specific check more/less range (talking about that bed).

 

i'll try to see if that can be fixed easily with zero effort that doesn't break anything else though. don't get your hopes up though.

 

 

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

EDIT: so i might have fixed a place similar to the one you have with the bed. remains to be seen if all else still works. it's not the exact same though since it looks like some mod stuff so more info would be useful.

 

the one in the super market where you climb over the locker through the wall, i can't reproduce. tried several times on chernarus (CUP) couldn't get through. i remember some issue similar to that though. might need to investigate more.

 

thx for the feedback so far though. the code is pretty complex and it has been ages sicne i worked on it so i try to stay away from it to not break it. but by a quick look i only checked upwards from the player's upper body. checking from the resulting pos upwards like you suggested in addition seems to work to restrict most of those cases in your videos. could've sworn i already did that but couldn't find it by a first glance.

 

cool thing is that i found some awesome new parkour places thx to this lol. gonna show a video soon.

[ineptaphid 6413]

I wouldn't worry too much about one or two things being un-climable BB. The fact that this addon works so well on basically every obstacle is quite amazing and I dont really see a need to change things. I am very impressed with how it works on Tanoa-climbing on the temple ruins works great.And it makes moving through the jungle very fun-being able to climb over fallen tree trunks etc is great.

 

The only thing that might make it better-although it is still a tiny thing, would be to be able to get onto the roof of vehicles etc. But even that i dont think I would use much-so it's perfect as it is :D

[nickorr 11]

Surely the possible fix should not damage the existing mechanics of the mod (it works really well and fair). The described problem is pretty much rare, compared to overall amount of arma maps and map objects.

My concerns are about usage on public servers, where - if the exploit is found by players - will cause trouble, because it is hard to track the abusing of it, and it is very non-obvious for players, that such go-through-wall event can occur. I, for example, found this bug when originally intended just to climb on the bed to get better view out of the window.

 

Regarding the question, where have I found such problematic buildings - I was testing it on the Panthera island:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=27416

 

Anyway, would be glad to hear good news about this issue :) I can assist in testing new build, if needed. If this problem is solved, I can surely say this mod would become essential due to its self-sufficiency and universality.

[bad benson 1733]

ye i might be able to fix some of those and i will surely try but it will never be perfect. so you should not expect this to ever be unexploitable. just to keep your expectations realistic ;)

 

roof of cars: this is yet another issue with the model. everything you do the floating animation on lacks walkable geometry. this is why i try to explain the limitations and the lack of control i have in certain areas everytime this stuff comes up. still it comes up over and over. i get it and people lack the full understanding of the details. but still to me it's like a stab in the heart everytime because it's out of my reach entirely and oen of the reasons that killed my passion for this project and arma modding in general.

it's easy to think that making EM was effortless because in most situations it works great but it was far from it. just getting to this point took ages and endless trial and error.

 

 

don't let this discourage you to lobby for walkable vehicles in addon threads though. this is just the wrong place to ask for walkable vehicles since it's a geometry thing. but it'S entirely possible as can be seen when looking at the boat that hatchet_AS made. it's jsut a matter of addign a simpel lod that has the walkable surfaces like MOST houses have.

 

the bed issue you can consider fixed i guess. the other one i'm investigating still. i will see if i get somewhere but i might just give up when shit gets crazy again.

 

i won't have much time for a week or so but i wanted to push a tiny update soon anyways so this will be a good test bed for those possible fixes.

[nickorr 11]

Naaah, I am familiar with arma long enough not to expect that modding will do what developers should've done :)

 

This one particular problem gnaws me cause it is game-breaking and non-obvious at the same time ("I just wanted to hop on the bed, but instead I slipped through the roof, where the enemy player was hiding", which is really awkward situation on the public server). As for me, it is better not to allow to climb couple of places excluding the risk of some not intended behavior.

 

As it was said before - the current mechanics are very well done and the described problem is rather an exception. It would be super great to cover it with a patch, so that the mod will be 100% self-sufficient. But there's no reason to put too much effort in that, as tomorrow developers may change few things in buildings' configs and the things go wild. You know, usual arma staff :)

 

Thanks for the response, will wait for the mod update then.

[ineptaphid 6413]

Oh i wasn't lobbying for walkable vehicles at all-i think EM is perfect exactly as it is-and I can see the huge amount of work that went into itsince you first announced it. I for one am totally satisfied with EM as it is, and I hope you dont get too discouraged from modding like you were saying.

[bad benson 1733]

Oh i wasn't lobbying for walkable vehicles at all-i think EM is perfect exactly as it is-and I can see the huge amount of work that went into itsince you first announced it. I for one am totally satisfied with EM as it is, and I hope you dont get too discouraged from modding like you were saying.

 

oh no you misunderstood. you SHOULD be lobbying. i'm just not the right address :lol: i'd love to harrass vehicle addon makers all day so at least all mod vehicles could be walkable but there's so many out there . so i gotta count on you guys and the power of the crowd. i guess the same goes for building addons and BI models although i don't see them change their lazy modelling ways as long as the base game doesn't include climbing. atleast on Tanoa all rocks are climbable not liek on Altis where the most pretty type of rock was missing the right lods entirely (probably to this day). so in a way i get it but i still hate it with a passion.

 

again. no harm and all. i just prefer to explain why i won't tackle a thing instead of just ignoring post. it's my biggest weakness :lol:. secretly i'm still very passionate about this and i don't want to be too whiney because i did this all without being forced to. my fault for even trying this lol. it can just really grind on your nerves and soul after a while. trial and error against all odds that is.

 

that being said. looks like i mostly fixed the issues that nickorr brought up by just adding some additional fail safes at the end of the function (i won't go in there deep, too complex, don't even udnerstand it fully myself anymore at this point). so breaking other stuff is way less likely like this.

 

thank god for coffee!

[cosmic10r 2331]

Personally I think it would be amazing if some effort was put into the LODs for the things that aren't able to be stood on.

Partly because of enhanced movement and now with urban rappelling there will be many instances of players getting to new places.

It is very immersion breaking when you climb and run across 3 buildings and then go to climb a knee high hedge and get stuck in a floating animation, float for 9 seconds then fall off and get injured.

It is quite likely that the dev time would not be worth the return at this point though...

[tortuosit 486]

Enhanced Movement already features safe drop including custom animations. walk to the edge, look straight down, press the climb/jump key.

One of the most important mods for me. ArmA should do all this in vanilla..

Now I wasn't aware of this safe drop, always wanted to ask for a safe climb down :) Will check, yeah!

 

endless trial and error

Sums up "ArmA modding" perfectly.

[Vasily.B 529]

Is there some way to make Ai using this as well? That would be extra hard game then :P

For example for units in the group - for easier formattion following.

[bad benson 1733]

For example for units in the group - for easier formattion following.

 

sorry missed that one. although this has been answered numberous times before. but while i'm here.

 

no, not going to happen. there is a way to make AI units perform the climb that i added a while back for AI modders, but i will not attempt this (anymore) because even when i was able to get a unit to climb, they become totally useless in places without paths (built inside the model). let alone gettign an AI to look at a wall and get close to it reliably. all a total nightmare.

[Vasily.B 529]

sorry missed that one. although this has been answered numberous times before. but while i'm here.

 

no, not going to happen. there is a way to make AI units perform the climb that i added a while back for AI modders, but i will not attempt this (anymore) because even when i was able to get a unit to climb, they become totally useless in places without paths (built inside the model). let alone gettign an AI to look at a wall and get close to it reliably. all a total nightmare.

Ah, ok, thanks for asnwear.

[bad benson 1733]

ok here's a test version with the fixes applied. this is not a release or official update. just a test for nickorr and anyone interested. i noticed a bug with animation speed which i'm not sure if i missed so far or is caused by the modificatiosn i made.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Y0VNgK9JXianNFaklCQjZwWkU/view?usp=sharing

 

^wrong link

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5Y0VNgK9JXiNmMwQlZPYnJSTzA/view?usp=sharing  <-----this one!

 

nickorr please try this and see if it fixes those things you showed in the video.

 

i'll be gone for a bit so there's a little time for testing before i merge this into the update later.

[Boose82 14]

Is there a way to make AI use this? 

 

note

 

Might be a silly question sorry

[Bamse 223]

Just read like three posts up man, first post on this page :P

[cosmic10r 2331]

Is there a way to make AI use this?

note

Might be a silly question sorry

I was all excited about this too...

But after we tested it it was as BB said... a total nightmare.

The fact that a lot of things don't have a walkable surface on top creates situations where they will climb and get stuck...

The AI becomes more of a deadweight in that scenario unfortunately...

Tied into my previous comment that it would be great if BIS could look at the LODs to enable this but I'm not sure it was ever their intention to have players walking on every surface and as a result in a number of cases we see modders pushing these boundaries...

[bad benson 1733]

for AI it's also about lack of pathway lods (premade AI navigation nodes inside the model itself) on roofs. the AI won't know how to navigate up there at all and in most cases just walk off.

[ineptaphid 6413]

for AI it's also about lack of pathway lods (premade AI navigation nodes inside the model itself) on roofs. the AI won't know how to navigate up there at all and in most cases just walk off.

Yeah.Considering my ai team often cant find their way up a flight of stairs..I think parkour is a little out of their league.Even for someone of your talents :)

[sttosin 67]

Yeah.Considering my ai team often cant find their way up a flight of stairs..I think parkour is a little out of their league.Even for someone of your talents :)

Never say never! He does have many talents and a few tricks up his sleeves. If AI can be scripted to rappel down a building, they may just be able to climb a few walls.

[Sir Fluffy 0]

Hello, I broke and decided to ask for help, after tons of troubleshooting, I can not get this mod to work on a server, I have no RPT Errors and I receive this message.

12:37:43 "default/BIS_fnc_log: [postInit] BABE_CORE_fnc_init (0 ms)"
12:37:43 "default/BIS_fnc_log: [postInit] BABE_EM_fnc_init (0 ms)"
12:37:43 "default/BIS_fnc_log: [postInit] BABE_INT_fnc_init (0 ms)"
12:37:43 "default/BIS_fnc_log: [postInit] BABE_LASER_fnc_init (0 ms)"
12:37:43 "default/BIS_fnc_log: [postInit] BABE_NVG_fnc_init (0 ms)"

I have tried launching clientside only, and clientside/serverside. I have placed keys in correct key directory. The mod works great in singleplayer/editor, but I cannot for the life of me get it on a server, am I doing something wrong?

 

I also tried running the @EM folder as a -mod and -serverMod, no luck.

 

I cant seem to be able to do it, would someone please help me with this?

 

I can/will provide more info, I just don't know what to do.

 

Thanks!

-Fluffy