Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[PolyG 69]

Hey,

I'm just someone that's been following this thread actively and I'm yet to see a single reply from BI. Am I missing something here? As I do see that this thread is getting monitered as members are still getting warnings etc.

Is it possible Bohemia is in fact acting on this, but just not doing it publicly.

BI has answered.. Multiple times.. I believe it was MattLightfoot. He's BI Public Relations.. He's explained why they can't do things to..Or tried to.

[naizarak 4]

BI has answered.. Multiple times.. I believe it was MattLightfoot. He's BI Public Relations.. He's explained why they can't do things to..Or tried to.

yeah very convenient for them to wash their hands of the entire matter. not like they could blacklist a3l servers or anything like that :rolleyes:

[andersson 285]

It's easy for us users to say whatever we like, true or not. BI must be more careful what they officially state (yes, a BI employee's forum post can be considered an official statement).

What is stated though is that they need solid proof that their eula is breached. Which we do not have. What solid proof there are is up to other game companies, persons and paypal to do someting with. It's understandable that BI cannot help everyone as soon as someone's eula is breached. Should they take it to court on behalf of M$? No, that is obviously up to M$. Or even worse, should they take it to court on behalf of a user? They would have their hands full then as soon as any user's addon is used without permission.....

I'm sure they agree with most of us that what has happened and what is happening is bad, but as MattLightfoot told us; we must give him solid proof that their EULA is breached. If not it will not hold up in court and it will be all for nothing. It will probably be very bad publicity for BI if they try to take down users of their game and loose.......

[ProfTournesol 956]

This A3L group psychotherapy is somehow pathetic.

[Mr-Pink 10]

Does anyone have hard evidence that A3L breached EULA?

Surly some of you have screenshots / video recording / teamspeak recordings of what goes on over there (especially the former members who bailed because of what they saw)

The evidence is probably scattered across a few hundred hard drives, but it wont last forever. Act now or forever hold your peace.

[eggbeast 3673]

take the time to read it

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?184772-Legal-violations-by-A3L-Arma-3-life&p=2838036&viewfull=1#post2838036

$100k income = commercial use of A3 = breach of A3 EULA

dayZ content in the mod = breach of dayZ EULA

4 private games companies models imported for cash = breach of their EULAs

restriction of access t othe materials, unless a fee is paid, or you wait 2 weeks = breach of A3 EULA

lots of mods/code included from milkman, roberthammer, Tonic, kiory, etc = breach of their EULAs

likely fraudulent sale of mod to 3000 customers for $100,000 = breach of NL law regarding distance selling regulations and trading standards

accumulation of $100,000 by 2 18 year-old kids = very likely tax avoidance issue to follow

[andersson 285]

take the time to think about it

$100k income = commercial use of A3 = breach of A3 EULA - Even if it's obvious it's still hard to prove as they are "voluntary donations" and it's claimed to be a free server.

dayZ content in the mod = breach of dayZ EULA - YES should be possible to give solid proof and it's BI eula.

4 private games companies models imported for cash = breach of their EULAs - BI probably can't do anything about that? It ends up on the other game companies I guess?

restriction of access t othe materials, unless a fee is paid, or you wait 2 weeks = breach of A3 EULA - Even if it's obvious it's still claimed to be a perk for donators to be bumped in the access que.

lots of mods/code included from milkman, roberthammer, Tonic, kiory, etc = breach of their EULAs - Up to them as BI probably can't take legal actions for all members broken EULA's.... Sadly.

likely fraudulent sale of mod to 3000 customers for $100,000 = breach of NL law regarding distance selling regulations and trading standards - Up to Netherlands.

accumulation of $100,000 by 2 18 year-old kids = very likely tax avoidance issue to follow - Death and Taxes, up to Netherlands.

So apart from dayZ content BI probably do not have much to go on. And the misuse of dayZ content probably will not get more than a slap on the wrist. "Cross pollination" has happened before and never received more than a warning and they have been told to remove it. Which they have done as noone in the community will use it if it's not ok. To take it to court would be overkill. "User blabla used assets from one of our games into another of our games"....

Don't get me wrong. What's done is very bad and the overall picture is very clear. But what BI is left with is not very much I'm afraid. In the past misuse of content and addon makers work have been stopped as noone wanted to be cast aside of the community. But in this case they clearly do not give a shit and we have to hope that paypal and taxes will catch up.

Please prove me wrong, I would love it.

[eggbeast 3673]

commercial income is not hard to prove - i really don't know how you fail to see that.

re-read the page i wrote on commercial use definition, look again at their sale of expedited access to a BIS game, which has a non-commercial use term in its EULA. then consider from this, they made $100,000. they also sold access to pirated content - documented also. that is commercial use. albeit illegal commercial use.

lastly, consider that they put in place a barrier (queue system) which is a technological barrier as determined in the EULA, that is not allowed under EULA.

the only way to get past this barrier, was to wait for 2 weeks, or pay $30. that is clear commercial gain from applying a technological barrier to access the game.

proof - it's a done deal.

[10pb 12]

I'm pretty sure $100,000 in donations doesn't qualify as commercial usage. It just means they get a lot of donations.

Whether or not they need to pay tax on those donations is a different issue, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Isn't this mainly about addon theft from the community, not how much money they're making in donations?

I don't really see how getting the Netherlands taxman to take X% of the money is a victory either.

It's pretty clear Bohemia doesn't care much. I doubt they're pleased about the usage of DayZ material, but they're unlikely to shut down A3L for that. They've also already said that A3L is no longer violating the non-commercial usage parts of the Arma 3 EULA. Their donator shop is in the past, and the "donate to get whitelisted quicker" thing, while shady, is a gray area.

It's not really a done deal yet is it? Nobody with any authority has said anything is actually being done about it.

[kbbw123 115]

I'm pretty sure $100,000 in donations doesn't qualify as commercial usage. It just means they get a lot of donations.

Whether or not they need to pay tax on those donations is a different issue, but I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Isn't this mainly about addon theft from the community, not how much money they're making in donations?

I don't really see how getting the Netherlands taxman to take X% of the money is a victory either.

It's pretty clear Bohemia doesn't care much. I doubt they're pleased about the usage of DayZ material, but they're unlikely to shut down A3L for that. They've also already said that A3L is no longer violating the non-commercial usage parts of the Arma 3 EULA. Their donator shop is in the past, and the "donate to get whitelisted quicker" thing, while shady, is a gray area.

It's not really a done deal yet is it? Nobody with any authority has said anything is actually being done about it.

read everything before comenting and you would have figured out they they forced donations. and it is alo shown they they still do it only not as "openly" as before

[10pb 12]

I have read before commenting, don't patronise me please :)

Heavily encouraging people to donate in order to get faster whitelisting != forcing people to donate. It's a dick move but it's not "forced donations".

[StevenW129 10]

I have read before commenting, don't patronise me please :)

Heavily encouraging people to donate in order to get faster whitelisting != forcing people to donate. It's a dick move but it's not "forced donations".

In the first instance it was forced as you could not gain access any other way. Please stop trying to fight a lost battle.

[10pb 12]

In the first instance it was forced as you could not gain access any other way. Please stop trying to fight a lost battle.

"was" being the operative word here - Bohemia have already said A3L are no longer in violation of the commercial usage part of the EULA.

Other mods have charged for access in the past, e.g DayZero Podagorsk, and no serious action (if any) was taken by Bohemia.

[StevenW129 10]

"was" being the operative word here - Bohemia have already said A3L are no longer in violation of the commercial usage part of the EULA.

Other mods have charged for access in the past, e.g DayZero Podagorsk, and no serious action (if any) was taken by Bohemia.

So the amount they made in the first instance which DOES total over 50% of their overall earnings doesn't matter right? That wasn't illegal right?

[10pb 12]

Mate, IMO yes it does matter, and yes they were violating the EULA, but it's not down to me or you or the community to enforce the EULA. It's down to Bohemia, who have washed their hands with the whole affair. The donation scandal is in the past. The present issue is stolen code and violated copyright - neither of which Bohemia will get involved in (except maybe a slap on the wrist for the DayZ hatchet).

I want to see A3L shut down as much as the next guy, but it's not looking likely unfortunately.

[StevenW129 10]

Mate, IMO yes it does matter, and yes they were violating the EULA, but it's not down to me or you or the community to enforce the EULA. It's down to Bohemia, who have washed their hands with the whole affair. The donation scandal is in the past. The present issue is stolen code and violated copyright - neither of which Bohemia will get involved in (except maybe a slap on the wrist for the DayZ hatchet).

I want to see A3L shut down as much as the next guy, but it's not looking likely unfortunately.

You don't know the half of it unfortunately.

[andersson 285]

commercial income is not hard to prove - i really don't know how you fail to see that.

re-read the page i wrote on commercial use definition, look again at their sale of expedited access to a BIS game, which has a non-commercial use term in its EULA. then consider from this, they made $100,000. they also sold access to pirated content - documented also. that is commercial use. albeit illegal commercial use.

lastly, consider that they put in place a barrier (queue system) which is a technological barrier as determined in the EULA, that is not allowed under EULA.

the only way to get past this barrier, was to wait for 2 weeks, or pay $30. that is clear commercial gain from applying a technological barrier to access the game.

proof - it's a done deal.

I don't fail too see it. It's obvious. But is it good enough for proof in court? I hope you're right.

[A.Cyprus 16]

@Eggbeast

What/who was the source of the screenshot you posted documenting the $100K received so far?

I've been doing my best to follow all posts here and stay current with the thread, so apologies if I've missed the obvious.

Also, a polite question to MattLightfoot:

My basic understanding of BIS involvement so far is that A3L was formerly found to be in breach of your EULA, told to cease by yourselves and when this was done to BIS satisfaction the case was closed without further action or penalty.

BIS' current position is you can no longer intervene without solid proof of further and current breach of EULA. If this requirement was satisfied, are you able to share please what general action BIS would take?

Would it simply be another cease order without penalty?

Many thanks.

[Sensory 10]

In my opinion, this is not a Bohemia Interactive problem. There is obviously no way you can go off and claim that BI's content is made by someone else. They originally had that problem with Codemasters where they stole their original game titled "Operation Flashpoint", and then BI had to continue development under the name of Arma.

Bohemia gave you these tools. In my opinion, this talk about copy pasta or using the same mission/script files is not even worth mentioning. Every AltisLife mission is the same exact one, give or take some small custom additions. Even these are mostly just copy+pasted from segments of scripts already on the internet. Rarely, a scripter can make his own scripts and just do it himself, and sometimes they do. I did scripting in OFP and original games just to mess around when I like 10 yaers old. So obviously looking at you guys now, I just pity you for caring about possible users owning scripts or mods from a game that gave you the tools to make them extremely easily.

The issue here seems to be server owners giving access to scripted features like having e-money, having virtual cars, access to server mods, or even admin. This is no different from any other game. I believe the server owner can do so if the player is actually willing pay for it, based on trust, which is the whole foundation of money. Even as someone who has never used any sort of 'pay-to-win' on any game server I hosted, I don't think it's wrong if someone does so and the user consents to it. I think BI's job, as like a parent, should be to break up the little kids fighting in their sand box. Other than that, nothing was really wrong. This post is kind of long to go on without anyone of importance actually looking at it. They will either ignore it or come to a conclusion and close this thread. This sounds like an individual or small group's feud which escalated and involved a lot more people just based on unintelligence and mismanagement.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Sensory

[StevenW129 10]

In my opinion, this is not a Bohemia Interactive problem. There is obviously no way you can go off and claim that BI's content is made by someone else. They originally had that problem with Codemasters where they stole their original game titled "Operation Flashpoint", and then BI had to continue development under the name of Arma.

Bohemia gave you these tools. In my opinion, this talk about copy pasta or using the same mission/script files is not even worth mentioning. Every AltisLife mission is the same exact one, give or take some small custom additions. Even these are mostly just copy+pasted from segments of scripts already on the internet. Rarely, a scripter can make his own scripts and just do it himself, and sometimes they do. I did scripting in OFP and original games just to mess around when I like 10 yaers old. So obviously looking at you guys now, I just pity you for caring about possible users owning scripts or mods from a game that gave you the tools to make them extremely easily.

The issue here seems to be server owners giving access to scripted features like having e-money, having virtual cars, access to server mods, or even admin. This is no different from any other game. I believe the server owner can do so if the player is actually willing pay for it, based on trust, which is the whole foundation of money. Even as someone who has never used any sort of 'pay-to-win' on any game server I hosted, I don't think it's wrong if someone does so and the user consents to it. I think BI's job, as like a parent, should be to break up the little kids fighting in their sand box. Other than that, nothing was really wrong. This post is kind of long to go on without anyone of importance actually looking at it. They will either ignore it or come to a conclusion and close this thread. This sounds like an individual or small group's feud which escalated and involved a lot more people just based on unintelligence and mismanagement.

Oh look. Another one of the A3L damage control members. Please don't join this forum just to try and fight against the solid proof we have.

[Sensory 10]

I am not part of the Illuminati 'A3l damage control members' like your weird head seems to think. I have never even hosted a server on 'Arma3' specifically.

If anything this just proves you are a person who believes in UFO conspiracy theories and assumptions. I don't argue with unintelligent people, I just ignore them like most people tend to do.

I just posted my opinion on this huge 130 page thread.

If people were being prosecuted for copying scripts/missions in this game, almost every mission maker in existence is guilty for using the Virtual Ammobox Script lolol. This is not BI's problem..

This is the problem of hateful individuals against communities or server owners who originally got them to pay for content on their server. If you are unsatisfied, you could have asked them just like if you went to a real life store and 'return it' because you did not need it, or verify what you are buying before throwing money around.

Or if you have a feud, this is not a court forum. You can legally prosecute whoever you want but you need to know your own laws and actually do so instead of sit on a forums of a game.

I fail to see your purpose. I see those servers have a lot of players on them and yet it's like, you want to destroy all of them because you payed some admin 20$ for e-monies and then got insulted, or perhaps realized it wasn't that amazing?

Again: The game gives you those tools to create the mods and a kid can mess with those tools if he has a bit of a brain. Good luck copyrighting a text document if you think that's an issue.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Sensory

[StevenW129 10]

I am not part of the Illuminati 'A3l damage control members' like your weird head seems to think. I have never even hosted a server on 'Arma3' specifically.

If anything this just proves you are a person who believes in UFO conspiracy theories and assumptions. I don't argue with unintelligent people, I just ignore them like most people tend to do.

I just posted my opinion on this huge 130 page thread.

If people were being prosecuted for copying scripts/missions in this game, almost every mission maker in existence is guilty for using the Virtual Ammobox Script lolol. This is not BI's problem..

This is the problem of hateful individuals against communities or server owners who originally got them to pay for content on their server. If you are unsatisfied, you could have asked them just like if you went to a real life store and 'return it' because you did not need it, or verify what you are buying before throwing money around.

Or if you have a feud, this is not a court forum. You can legally prosecute whoever you want but you need to know your own laws and actually do so instead of sit on a forums of a game.

I fail to see your purpose. I see those servers have a lot of players on them and yet it's like, you want to destroy all of them because you payed some admin 20$ for e-monies and then got insulted, or perhaps realized it wasn't that amazing?

I don't think you will kill the game (or killing any server with the category 'RPG game' on Arma3, whatever you think your purpose actually is) and none of those players just messing around on those servers will even bother to look at forums content.

Again: The game gives you those tools to create the mods and a kid can mess with those tools if he has a bit of a brain. Good luck copyrighting a text document if you think that's an issue.

*Sigh* Really, did you just use "Virtual Ammobox Script" as an example... *facepalm*. You are now dealing with two completely different things which proves my point. You don't see the full picture. The commercialization of other peoples content that they released for free to the community in which A3L comes along, takes the content (WHICH IS RELEASED UNDER CREATIVE COMMONS) and resigns it, redistributes it and makes money off of it. That is not only unethical, it is illegal as it breaches the license agreement.

Please read the facts before you post. You contradicted yourself in your own post.

[rautapalli 10]

Funny how BI markets this game as a great mod platform but then don't bother taking any action when shit like this happens. The mod community is the only reason this franchise even exists anymore. This is a good way to make every talented modder leave for other games.

Why create all these licenses and rules if you don't enforce anything.

[Sensory 10]

I honestly feel like you don't have any logic behind the argument. You are saying something contradictory to what I said, but I did not contradict myself. I merely gave an example of why it is not as you think it is. If you go pay a dealer for a small amount of drugs in real life, you would not use half of it and then seek legal action against the dealer because he did not accept the return. You should not be arguing if some scripter tried to copyright a script in this game and then someone else copied it and sold it to people who would pay for it. The same competition happens in real life. It's the scripter who copyrighted his stuff who has to do the persecution and if BI has to stand there like a parent then it's fine. I'm almost certain though that they want to ignore this and not take any part of it.

Either way what I said multiple times still exists and it's there to read if needed. I would say I'm glad that I can see how you think, or the logic behind the angry mob on this thread so to speak, but I'm really not.

[StevenW129 10]

I honestly feel like you don't have any logic behind the argument. You are saying something contradictory to what I said, but I did not contradict myself. I merely gave an example of why it is not as you think it is. If you go pay a dealer for a small amount of drugs in real life, you would not use half of it and then seek legal action against the dealer because he did not accept the return. You should not be arguing if some scripter tried to copyright a script in this game and then someone else copied it and sold it to people who would pay for it. The same competition happens in real life. It's the scripter who copyrighted his stuff who has to do the persecution and if BI has to stand there like a parent then it's fine. I'm almost certain though that they want to ignore this and not take any part of it.

Either way what I said multiple times still exists and it's there to read if needed. I would say I'm glad that I can see how you think, or the logic behind the angry mob on this thread so to speak, but I'm really not.

*facekeyboard* You contradicted yourself three times in one post, and again you just contradicted yourself again. I will not reply to you as you are going to make me destroy all my peripherals by smashing my face against them by reading your posts.