Legal violations by A3L: Arma 3 life

[A.Cyprus 16]

What legal violations? Is their server, they can set the rules they want and that includes fees.

About mods? The mods are available for everyone to grab, they just did it and placed it on their servers. .

It's their server but actually they can't do whatever they want.

Arma 3 Eula states they cannot do what they are doing.

The mod licenses state they cannot do what they are doing.

I own my house, and in my house i make the rules.

But that doesn't give me the right to steal your tv and use it, just because I'm watching it at my house. Neither does it make me exempt from adhering to tv license laws, just because I'm watchin tv in my own house.

[Caiden 1]

Sorry for my late response. This is our official open beta information on the website:

A3L Community,

Open Beta is delayed due to paypal blocking the transaction for a new server. It would not be a good idea to whitelist every civilian and servers being full 24/7. The date has been updated. Also more servers will be added depending on player amount.

OPEN BETA IS STARTING FROM 29~30 OCTOBER (PLEASE ALLOW US TO BUY MORE SERVERS! WE CURRENTLY CANNOT HOLD OUR PLAYERS WITH THE CURRENT TWO SERVERS!)

You can already make your civilian applications (if applications are open). Once accepted you can download the launcher. You can start downloading the files & join the server once we release open beta!

You can donate $30 to receive a gold donator tag which gives you access to the Expedited Application section on the forums. Those applications will be placed on top of the queue for reviewal (Please make sure to post your thread in this section!). This does NOT guarantee your civilian application to be accepted and will be handled like any normal civilian application.

More information will be published to these individuals once they have successfully received their civilian tag on how to download our launcher. Further instructions on how to get whitelisted will be supplied after successfully being allowed into the mod as a civilian.

We would never ask anyone for payment in exchange for a whitelist.

Thanks,

Project Lead Caiden, Zannaza, and Project Manager Mike Baxter

and

A3L,

Obviously some people have some issues with the above information so I will try and make it a little more simple to understand.

Currently were working on opening Arma 3 Life to Open Beta within the next day or so. We pushing for either today or tomorrow but its dependent upon several factors and more servers being configured. So bare with us and we will immediately spam the flood gates that we are opening open beta.

Now people ask how do we get into the game and so forth. Well what will happen is that our system will be updated prior to the announcement so that everyone with a civilian tag will be whitelisted. We will also have in the announcement thread of where to download the launcher so that you can login and begin getting your freak on at the club Mirage or many more things to enjoy when coming to Lakeside Valley.

Hope you all enjoy!

We are not in breach of anyone's license agreement. We won't follow Tonic's non-derivs license since we've found valid proof that he stole our code and claimed it as his own. This proof has been shown to AMAR and they told me that its valid. As far as I know AMAR is going to have a meeting about this, and our project manager will be there to attend it.

Caiden.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Caiden

[A.Cyprus 16]

Hi Caiden

So, are saying that Tonic didn't create the Life code on which your mode is based, or are you saying its ok for you to ignore licenses just because "they did it first"?

Have all those members who have "donated" for gold or higher status to gain access in the past been refunded the $30 now that you are updating your policies?

Edited October 29, 2014 by ACyprus

[Caiden 1]

Hi Caiden

So, are saying that Tonic didn't create the Life code on which your mode is based, or are you saying its ok for you to ignore licenses just because "they did it first"?

Have all those members who have "donated" for gold or higher status to gain access in the past been refunded the $30 now that you are updating your policies?

Tonic based his Altis Life upon Stratis Life. We've shown AMAR the parts which we made and own, and shown proof of Tonic stealing it from our servers, and removing our credits back in Alpha. We didn't care back then, but it's pretty clear that the HUD has remained unchanged and he still uses images which we own in his Altis Life. Download the original Stratis Life, and see for yourself. Regarding donations: People never had to donate in order to play the closed beta, that policy hasn't changed.

Caiden.

[slatts 1978]

What legal violations? Is their server, they can set the rules they want and that includes fees.

No they can't.

About mods? The mods are available for everyone to grab, they just did it and placed it on their servers. I agree its not ethical, its not polite, its not what Arma community was used to. But between these moral values and a legal violation there is a big ocean.

From what people are saying they are doing. It is a legal violation.

I dont see where is the surprise

Neither do I but.

this is how these RPG survival game modes work and this is only the beginning, expect more.

This is not how all of them work. I'm a dev of one for over 4 years, player of 6. Going back to Arma 1. We never did any stuff like this. But yet, I expect more to pull stuff like this.

Oh Wait .. I see .. people was expecting to have these game modes keeping the old good respectful Arma tradition. Oh well, welcome to the new era.

Great. Let's just shut up and let people earn money from other peoples work. People who won't see a cent for all the effort they put into it and gave it to you for free. Let's just screw them over time and time again.

Welcome to the new era folks. If this is the new era of Arma where modders get fucked over and no one cares. I'm out.

[A.Cyprus 16]

Regarding donations: People never had to donate in order to play the closed beta, that policy hasn't changed.

Caiden.

Forgive me, I may have misinterpreted the other thread, now locked.

Is mbaxter a colleague of yours?

Prior there was the ability to pay $30.00 and be a gold donator or higher and get access to our beta testing.

You can NOT donate $30.00 and immediately get access to closed beta as previously.

[Caiden 1]

Forgive me, I may have misinterpreted the other thread, now locked.

Is mbaxter a colleague of yours?

That doesn't mean there wasn't a way to get in without paying.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Caiden

[A.Cyprus 16]

I'm sorry Caiden, I don't understand what you mean.

[shx 11]

Regarding donations: People never had to donate in order to play the closed beta, that policy hasn't changed.

Assuming the 'price-list' someone posted in the old thread was on your site at some point, and you received even a single penny in that period, your project is commercial. Unless BI sold you a custom tailored license to do commercial stuff with ARMA3, that's at minimum a violation of BI's license. ((Some parts of that EULA might be debateable in some jurisdictions, but the non-commercial use clause is definitely not.))

Tonic based his Altis Life upon Stratis Life.

Being not the first to violate a license doesn't make violating licenses more legal.

That doesn't mean there wasn't a way to get in without paying.

Unless that payment is purely a donation and doesn't yield any benefits (in theory even cosmetical stuff could be seen as benefit), it's commercial.

[JdB 151]

We won't follow Tonic's non-derivs license since we've found valid proof that he stole our code and claimed it as his own. This proof has been shown to AMAR and they told me that its valid.

I feel a slight correction is in order: You've only spoken to one member who contacted you before we had reached a concensus about directly communicating with you and from what he told us you had shown him some evidence of an attack on your server in which the files from Stratis Life were stolen which you believe was carried out by Tonic. He didn't say anything to us about telling you that any of this is being considered valid by us since no one besides the person you talked to has seen it.

[DreamRebel 73]

I've seen the evidence and it looked solid but you'll (A3L) have to spread it. Even though I was there, I'm not the person which can post an official AMAR statement about it. Other members Will have to see it to before AMAR can say anything about it.

It's only valid if the members agree.

By they way even though I'm a AMAR member, last night I was there as myself. Not as AMAR. It's only possible to go as AMAR if everyone agrees and when we go together.

Edited October 29, 2014 by DreamRebel

[devilslayersbane 28]

You know, if you can prove that the scripts that he stole from you guys is actually stolen, then use that. However, the rest of it is still his intellectual property and under the license he released it under, you're not allowed to use it. Period. Also, he has this in his credits:

"Anyone else that I forgot is credited in whatever file they are responsible for."

[dezkit 28]

I understand where you're coming from but we need to respect what Dezkit and others wish to do with their content. I think we all should be careful in understanding who is the main cause of the problem and who isn't as I don't think this has been discussed to its fullest. Honestly I would like to see a decent and open discussion with the Life Mod Lead Manager on this forum to address some issues and question people have, but as far as I'm aware and by how things are looking it won't be anytime soon.

I do not support any sort of copyright violations, that's why in my mods I contact authors and patiently await their permissions before I port any of their models into A3 (also because I suck at modeling.)

That said, I don't mind A3L receiving donations to keep their servers up, but if they are breaking the law somehow (I'm not a lawyer, I can't decide if what they are doing is illegal) by paying to enter, then it is not my duty to enforce and uphold the laws, it's up to BI.

As some people may know, I had a hard drive crash that wiped all my sources for my mods that I have done so far (other than the UH-1Y, which was made after the crash). I had a very old backup of the Bell-206 so I just gave it to them since I don't wan't to release to the public something unfinished/buggy.

I am a developer for them because I am friends with Caiden and we met on Steam around half a year ago. I give them development advise. Also, even though I am a hard core MILSIM fan, sometimes I like to role play that I am a police officer =P.

I hope this post clears up any confusion with me and my name. :)

[tonic-_- 53]

Tonic based his Altis Life upon Stratis Life. We've shown AMAR the parts which we made and own, and shown proof of Tonic stealing it from our servers, and removing our credits back in Alpha. We didn't care back then, but it's pretty clear that the HUD has remained unchanged and he still uses images which we own in his Altis Life. Download the original Stratis Life, and see for yourself. Regarding donations: People never had to donate in order to play the closed beta, that policy hasn't changed.

Caiden.

What type of horse crap are you spouting now?

I will post the exact same response that I did awhile ago on my website.

You want code comparison then here you go:

http://tonic.pw/stratis_life_v1a.Stratis.rar (This is the stratis life that I wrote for Seal team sloth)

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=19783 That is what you produced.

HUD stolen from you? It was taken from Wasteland and ding ding ding guess what? I made wasteland. Icons taken? Again Wasteland ding ding ding and in-fact one specific icon which is the water icon is used from Sa-Matra's build of Wasteland with his permission. The hud that you made if I recall correctly you didn't even make it. You took it from 404Games build of Wasteland which was a mixture of both my build of Wasteland and Sa-Matra's.

The Stratis life that I wrote and never released was derived from my Wasteland code, don't believe me? Compare it:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17636

When ARMA 3 Release came around I spent a week reworking the code from the Stratis life I built to make Altis life and continued to change it even after release. As I've said on my own forums the only thing(s) that they have in common or similarity are the sounds (Which you took from the older life missions on ARMA 2) and the name. Don't go off spreading lies about me 'stealing' your work. Your work made me want to vomit all over my computer when I looked at the code and the countless mistakes made in it but because I had very fond memories on Chernarus life, Zargabad life, takistan life I decided to make my own for one specific community which is seal team sloth in which I am no longer affiliated with or have been for over a year.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Tonic-_-

[Caiden 1]

What type of horse crap are you spouting now?

I will post the exact same response that I did awhile ago on my website.

You want code comparison then here you go:

http://tonic.pw/stratis_life_v1a.Stratis.rar (This is the stratis life that I wrote for Seal team sloth)

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=19783 That is what you produced.

HUD stolen from you? It was taken from Wasteland and ding ding ding guess what? I made wasteland. Icons taken? Again Wasteland ding ding ding and in-fact one specific icon which is the water icon is used from Sa-Matra's build of Wasteland with his permission. The hud that you made if I recall correctly you didn't even make it. You took it from 404Games build of Wasteland which was a mixture of both my build of Wasteland and Sa-Matra's.

The Stratis life that I wrote and never released was derived from my Wasteland code, don't believe me? Compare it:

http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=17636

When ARMA 3 Release came around I spent a week reworking the code from the Stratis life I built to make Altis life and continued to change it even after release. As I've said on my own forums the only thing(s) that they have in common or similarity are the sounds (Which you took from the older life missions on ARMA 2) and the name. Don't go off spreading lies about me 'stealing' your work. Your work made me want to vomit all over my computer when I looked at the code and the countless mistakes made in it but because I had very fond memories on Chernarus life, Zargabad life, takistan life I decided to make my own for one specific community which is seal team sloth in which I am no longer affiliated with or have been for over a year.

Kill yourself please. This community doesn't know half the shit you pulled on us.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Yeah, what a wonderful world that those "whatever" life mods, stealing work from each others, using addons without permission etc.

But guys seriously, you should wash your dirty laundry somewhere else...

[GSP167 1]

Kill yourself please. This community doesn't know half the shit you pulled on us.

The evidence against you is quite solid and clear that you stole numerous mods from the community and simply renamed them hoping nobody would notice, same goes with Tonic's work in your mission file. Also if you're going to accuse Tonic of anything please provide clear evidence of that... I can understand him being mad that someone would literally force people to PAY to be able to access a download repo & being given access to a server that contains his work. Finally, I do hope that Bohemia will take legal actions against you and make an example out of you.

[Caiden 1]

The evidence against you is quite solid and clear that you stole numerous mods from the community and simply renamed them hoping nobody would notice, same goes with Tonic's work in your mission file. Also if you're going to accuse Tonic of anything please provide clear evidence of that... I can understand him being mad that someone would literally force people to PAY to be able to access a download repo & being given access to a server that contains his work. Finally, I do hope that Bohemia will take legal actions against you and make an example out of you.

Lol, I'll make sure to have the coffee ready. I guess the haters need a place to express all the hate :D

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Yeh I steal addons which I can find on armaholic. I'm a criminal now :(

[m1lkm8n 411]

Did you remove my smd_ addons from your mod like I asked? I don't want my addons associated with pay to play gaming.

[Caiden 1]

Did you remove my smd_ addons from your mod like I asked? I don't want my addons associated with pay to play gaming.

well good thing its not.

[m1lkm8n 411]

Last time I checked charging people to play on your server is "pay to play"

[deltagamer 612]

Kill yourself please. This community doesn't know half the shit you pulled on us.

Lol, I'll make sure to have the coffee ready. I guess the haters need a place to express all the hate :D

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:41 ----------

Yeh I steal addons which I can find on armaholic. I'm a criminal now :(

You should really take a breather. You need to understand that even if people have a problem with your mod and you feel like your being hated against, you still need to (as a "Project Leader") try address and reason with those who may question what you are doing. You may feel people are giving you grief but its best not to respond with the same attitude. Try be a little more responsible and respectable when talking to other people.

[tonic-_- 53]

Kill yourself please. This community doesn't know half the shit you pulled on us.

Hey, just so we're on the same page here you said: but it's pretty clear that the HUD has remained unchanged

Let's do a quick brief comparison and for the record if anyone should kill their self, it should be you for making me look at my old Wasteland code that I published back in November of 2012, however I do stand corrected in a sense. The code that 404Games had for the HUD was mine modified where as the dialog its self was Sa-Matra's.

Here is the player HUD code that you so rightfully claim as yours in the mission you published:

//	@file Version: 1.0
//	@file Name: playerHud.sqf
//	@file Author: [404] Deadbeat
//	@file Created: 11/09/2012 04:23
//	@file Args:

disableSerialization;
private["_ui","_hud","_food","_water"];

while {true} do
{
   1000 cutRsc ["WastelandHud","PLAIN"];
   _ui = uiNameSpace getVariable "WastelandHud";
   _vitals = _ui displayCtrl 3600;
   _hudVehicle = _ui displayCtrl 3601;

   //Calculate Health 0 - 100
   _decimalPlaces = 2;
   _health = damage player;
   _health = round (_health * (10 ^ _decimalPlaces)) / (10 ^ _decimalPlaces);
   _health = 100 - (_health * 100);
   _vitals ctrlSetStructuredText parseText format ["%1 <img size='1.5' image='icons\health.paa'/><br/>%2 <img size='1.5' image='icons\money.paa'/><br/>%3 <img size='1.5' image='icons\water.paa'/>", _health, (player getVariable "mymoney"), thirstLevel];
   _vitals ctrlCommit 0;

   if(player != vehicle player) then
   {
       _tempString = "";
       _yOffset = 0.24;
       _vehicle = assignedVehicle player;

       {
           if((driver _vehicle == _x) || (gunner _vehicle == _x)) then
           {
               if(driver _vehicle == _x) then
               {
                   _tempString = format ["%1 %2 <img size='0.8' image='icons\driver.paa'/><br/>",_tempString, (name _x)];
                   _yOffset = _yOffset + 0.04;
               }
               else
               {
                   _tempString = format ["%1 %2 <img size='0.8' image='icons\gunner.paa'/><br/>",_tempString, (name _x)];
                   _yOffset = _yOffset + 0.04;
               }; 
           }
           else
           {
               _tempString = format ["%1 %2 <img size='0.8' image='icons\cargo.paa'/><br/>",_tempString, (name _x)];
               _yOffset = _yOffset + 0.04;
           };    
       } forEach crew _vehicle;

       _hudVehicle ctrlSetStructuredText parseText _tempString;
       _x = safeZoneX + (safeZoneW * (1 - (0.42 / SafeZoneW)));
       _y = safeZoneY + (safeZoneH * (1 - (_yOffset / SafeZoneH)));
       _hudVehicle ctrlSetPosition [_x, _y, 0.4, 0.65];
       _hudVehicle ctrlCommit 0;
   };

   sleep 1;
};

So if you own rights to that code why is there another persons name on it?

Now we will do a comparison of my code from both Wasteland and Stratis life that I made.

Wasteland:

/*
@file Version: 1D
@file name: core\misc\fnc_hud.sqf
@file Author: TAW_Tonic
@file edit: 9/28/2012
@file description: This controls the hud / UI for food / water
*/

disableSerialization;
private["_ui","_hud","_food","_water"];

while {true} do
{
cutRsc ["playerHUD","PLAIN"];
_ui = uiNameSpace getVariable "playerHUD";
_food = _ui displayCtrl 23500;
_water = _ui displayCtrl 23510;

_food ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.080,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.55];
_food ctrlSetText format["%1", hungerlvl];
_food ctrlCommit 0;

_water ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.080,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.50];
_water ctrlSetText format["%1", thirstlvl];
_water ctrlCommit 0;

sleep 2;
};

Stratis Life (My build)

/*
@file Version: 1DC
@file name: core\misc\fnc_hud.sqf
@file Author: TAW_Tonic
@file edit: 2/12/2013
@file description: This controls the hud / UI for food / water / health
*/

disableSerialization;
private["_ui","_hud","_food","_water","_health"];

while {true} do
{
cutRsc ["playerHUD","PLAIN"];
_ui = uiNameSpace getVariable "playerHUD";
_food = _ui displayCtrl 23500;
_water = _ui displayCtrl 23510;
_health = _ui displayCtrl 23515;

_food ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.548];
_food ctrlSetText format["%1", life_hunger];
_food ctrlCommit 0;

_water ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.502];
_water ctrlSetText format["%1", life_thirst];
_water ctrlCommit 0;

_health ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.456];
_health ctrlSetText format["%1", round((1 - (damage player)) * 100)];
_health ctrlCommit 0;

sleep 1;
};

And lets compare Altis life current build:

/*
File: fn_hudUpdate.sqf
Author: Bryan "Tonic" Boardwine

Description:
Updates the HUD when it needs to.
*/
private["_ui","_food","_water","_health"];
disableSerialization;

_ui = uiNameSpace getVariable ["playerHUD",displayNull];
if(isNull _ui) then {[] call life_fnc_hudSetup;};
_food = _ui displayCtrl 23500;
_water = _ui displayCtrl 23510;
_health = _ui displayCtrl 23515;

//Update food
_food ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.548];
_food ctrlSetText format["%1", life_hunger];
_food ctrlCommit 0;
//Update Water
_water ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.502];
_water ctrlSetText format["%1", life_thirst];
_water ctrlCommit 0;
//Update Health
_health ctrlSetPosition [safeZoneX+safeZoneW-0.090,safeZoneY+safeZoneH-0.456];
_health ctrlSetText format["%1", round((1 - (damage player)) * 100)];
_health ctrlCommit 0;

Now call me crazy but I am 100% positive that you did not make the HUD which is used in your published version of Stratis life so therefor your claims of it being yours initially is false as usual and as for the claim of them being the same and unchanged well lets face it, they are not the same. The only similarities they have is that 404Games used my code to work with Sa-Matra's build of Wasteland so therefor the code is deformed from its original state regardless of the fact they're not the same and even if they were it was my code to begin with.

[Caiden 1]

You should really take a breather. You need to understand that even if people have a problem with your mod and you feel like your being hated against, you still need to (as a "Project Leader") try address and reason with those who may question what you are doing. You may feel people are giving you grief but its best not to respond with the same attitude. Try be a little more responsible and respectable when talking to other people.

No point trying to argue with some of the people here. I'm out. Goodbye, I'll be eating popcorn with my community watching this thread.

[m1lkm8n 411]

No point trying to argue with some of the people here. I'm out. Goodbye, I'll be eating popcorn with my community watching this thread.

Wait....before you go. Remove my addons from your p2p server please