In-game commercial advertising in the custom content

[Rydygier 1317]

Frankly, I can't recall any such case in other games, but that doesn't mean much - I'm not up to date. Not sure, if even legally possible in Arma (is it? I would doubt it, if for money).

Anyway, such thought during the bath made me wonder, why is that, thus the thread to discuss this matter. I saw such ads in the movies, so why not in games?

Thus let's assume, it is somehow legally possible and assume, there are on the wide world companies/people ready to invest some money in such advertising. I saw one or two old threads about dynamic ads in official content. I don't like such idea. But how about similar, but non-intrusive concept for custom Arma content? User-made scenarios or mods?

Technically quite easy to add both, visual (simple textures on the billboard/walls) and audible ads (like jingles in the background from some "radio"). The more, if done in decent way, shouldn't disturb gameplay, on the contrary, may be considered as a feature/eyecandy enhancing immersion in game like Arma. Also, IMO, may be safely assumed, it would be done in decent way. After all, mission/mod must be popular to get any effect, so ads can't daunt players. Seemingly quite nice way for some profit for mission-/modmakers. For example I enjoyed fake ads in Arma 2, from player's view shouldn't be a difference, fake or real, and there was in fact form of advertisement via real equipment names, that IIRC wasn't criticized, rather considered as a feature.

Or maybe such idea in fact is a Pandora's Box, that would destroy modding in Arma and any joy from playing, no matter, how done?

So, as Arma players and/or content makers, how do you think? Assuming, it's possible on reasonable terms, would this be an untapped opportunity, simple bullshit or potential plague? Optimally, if vote will be paired with few words of reasoning.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Rydygier

[IndeedPete 1038]

I don't know, product placement seems to be a common thing among Hollywood movies and AAA games nowadays but I find it annoying most of the time. Of course, if a commercial fits the scenario and topic it's not much of a hassle but I rather see "fake" made-up commercials in user-made content. Satirical stuff like in GTA or some A3 user missions I've played, nothing serious though. Then I'd rather see commercials (posters, billboards) for other community content; have a few of those included in my stuff as well. Apart from that I'm not sure if commercialising in any way would be good for the community. I guess there already are some people who'd rather sell their user made content instead of contributing it for free. I see that it's much work to create something but I'd rather keep this on a voluntary and free-of-charge basis. It's a hobby after all. If someone wants to make money with game development he should consider applying to BIS (or another studio) or found his own start-up. Plus there's still this donation thing, even if ignored by most of the users.

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Well, one example would be Intel back during Battlefield 2. In Armored Fury I think it was, they had Intel billboards, and some Intel supply crates as map objects, etc. They made a little bit of a fuss about it at launch, but it was fairly unobtrusive. References during map loading screens, etc. That type of product placement, fine, especially because in ArmA we could just blow up the billboards.

[twisted 128]

Simple static billboards would be OK but jingles, audio based stuff and video would suck. I hate downloading ads on behalf of advertisers. Be better if it wasn't in. Seriously fuck the big brands out there, prefer to not see them in Arma.

[the_demongod 31]

It all depends on how you do it. Obvious ads will be obnoxious, but if it's subtle (such as tires of a vehicle are by a certain brand, an intel sticker on some sort of laptop, or any other vehicle manufacturer's mark) it can be passible.

[A.Cyprus 16]

You've already bought the game, why view ads?

Any implementation should be opt in. It's been done before, most recently in my own experience in City of Heroes.

And like some of you say, subtle, unobtrusive and non immersion-breaking.

But that wouldn't be very good advertising, would it?

[Rydygier 1317]

Seriously fuck the big brands out there

For custom content I would expect rather some small brands. Doubtful, if big boys would care much because is doubtful, if effect would be big enough for them.

It all depends on how you do it.

Yes. But if done in the way repelling players, then will be futile and pointless. Currently for the visuals in Arma that would be mostly about billboards or graffitti. Audio - same thing. Must be done well (not repelling), or coutereffective. IMO it's possible. After all we even now have a mod adding "radios" to the houses. Ads are part of the radio broadcast. As said - presence of commercials in fact is realistic. So, what's the difference, if that would be fictional brands or real? And that's the most interesting part from player's view, because for me that would be some diiference. I don't know, I think it isn't rational, but I'm reacting with irritation on any mentioning about more real-world advertisement in my game/life. I'm sick of it (and because of that wondering, why it is still cost-effective, to advertise anything). In the same time presence of faked ads in the game world for me is a feature, immersion booster, not a problem.

I see, most so far are against, while not explained anyhow. Perhaps it's similar syndrome, like mine. Meanwhile, the more I'm thinkning about this rationally, the harder to point any actual flaw. Perhaps except overall concern about results of injecting money into modding, but this is discussed widely here.

Apart from that I'm not sure if commercialising in any way would be good for the community.

Yes, same here. Not sure. But hard to name, why exactly. Just money seems asocciate with all, what it's low in the human nature, probably we all experienced that in life. And, I think, many of us perceive Arma community as something between sanctuary and family and we don't want to loose this fragile status quo. But IMO changes are inevitable and constant. We can by new ideas or approach only try to direct the flow of changes. For most it is a hobby, sure. But should that be obligatory, or rather everyone should have a free choice, if keep it that way or try to earn something by the way. So, are the money motivation or destructive factor? IMO could be both. Currently we're testing that by MANW.

You've already bought the game, why view ads?

Why not? If are improving the mission with immersion, not make it worse... When I bought A2 I viewed some ads on billboards and enjoyed it. Nice touch to me. The only difference - these was a fake. Why, rationally, fake or not fake should make a difference? There was also BTW real equipment names, I wonder, why it wasn't treated as advertisement. Or it was? Would be a bad thing, repelling from the game, to see Kamaz trucks in A3 instead of Zamak? And let's say, Kamaz producer would like to spend some money to convince a modeller to name his creation with real name in such form of advertising. Why not? And player is in power here. If he would choose to not play missions/use mods with ads, ads will disappear as pointelss (not enough people watching).

But that wouldn't be very good advertising, would it?

IMHO subtle and immersive is most effective in fact. Obtrusive often is countereffective due to annoyance.

I guess there already are some people who'd rather sell their user made content instead of contributing it for free.

No doubt. The more, some may want to do anything here only, if there will be some profit in it. For various reasons, not always greed. Discussed here concept seems to bind, what is good in free content and paid content with bonus of improved immersion. For players - it's still free and even more immersive, for content makers - chance to get some profit for their work without burdening financially the players and without spoiling the result. It may work as motivator (avoiding all psychological flaws that spoils the pleasure of creation when work is paid directly (stress, haste, freedom constrained by demands of founder...)) and even may give a bit more free time for modding to those, who otherwise will be forced to use it for earning the money for life instead. After all - what's wrong with well combined hobby and profit? Isn't a dream of everyone to earn money for living by doing something, they like to do?

IMO that would work such a way, so mission would be made as great, as possible to make it as popular, as possible (isn't that good thing?), then, with big enough playerbase, ads may become profitable, thus someone may offer to the maker money for ads in his creation. I would guess, third side in such agreement would be always BIS. And, of course, content creator always may prepare two versions of the mission, one for those, that wnat to support/thank him financially without emptying own wallett, and other, ads-free, for those, who for any reason refuse to watch/hear any commercials and don't care about creator's profit.

That's rational part as for pros. Quite easy to name. Now, I'm curious, if anyone actually see any rational aruments against. There must be something more than irritation or ideology of contrariness. Poll so far reflects partially my feelings, but my irrational, sceptical part demands some substantial foundation. :)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Rydygier

[semiconductor 309]

Why not?

So, you actually enjoy viewing advertisements?

Why, rationally, fake or not fake should make a difference?

Because billboards in Chernarus were referencing life in Chernarus itself thus creating feeling that Chrenarus is alive.

[Rydygier 1317]

Because billboards in Chernarus were referencing life in Chernarus itself and creating felling that Chrenarus is alive.

Exactly. That way I would imagine advertisements placed in decent, immersive way. So we're in Greece now? Let's make ads fit the place equally well. After all they have commercials there, isn't? Example - travel agencies. If done such a way, then yes, I actually would enjoy watching such ads because of improved immersion and realism. Again - players no enjoy - ads become pointelss in the same moment. That's the beauty of this idea. It must be done in the way, that would be liked by the players or will fail.

Also I'm thinking about this real equipment names case as form of advertising. I can imagine, producers rather want some money for license, instead of pay some for such advertising. So perhaps we should look on this matter in such opposite way and make them pay "us" for promotion of their products. Modeller gets some money and is happy. Players get new cool toys named realistically and are happy. Producer is promoting his product and is happy (not that target? Not sure, after all AFAIK there is many players of military profession, but kinda exotic aproach, I guess, selling arms etc. works, AFAIK, on a bit different basis that selling detergents, so target differs too as for kind of advertisement methods, but who knows, risk is as low, as needed money to try...). BIS, I pressume, is happy too due to some % for them and more players because of new toys.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Rydygier

[semiconductor 309]

Sure, as long as they fake or it's military equipment that I can play with. Personally I'm quite fed up with ads and I don't like the idea that that Intel/Gillette/Nvidia or some other corporation will try to squeeze money out my wallet even when I'm playing.

It must be done in the way, that would be liked by the players or will fail.

That's the problem. Could you name at least one person who likes to watch advertisements? Most of the people even find ads annoying, yet still they are everywhere. Edited September 26, 2014 by Semiconductor

[Rydygier 1317]

Personally I'm quite fed up with ads and I don't like the idea that that Intel/Gillette/Nvidia or some other corporation will try to squeeze money out my wallet even when I'm playing.

Yes, that's the feeling, I'm sharing, despite I'm using tools like AdBlock and not watch TV much, and even if so, commercial breaks are good moment to do something else meanwhile. Like some WC business. :) And probably most of players too (I think poll will reflect that). So, players would not like missions with such ads, yes? So, in the result, there will be no such ads in the missions because player wouldn't like them. So advertising of such kind of brands become futile and thus also not wanted by content creators. It's seems to be a system self-controlling own quality (in terms of fun provided and lack of annoyances).

That's the problem. Could you name at least one person who likes to watch advertisements?

I said. Me for example. I enjoyed A2 fake brands billboards, because, as you said, was done immersive, fitting well Chernarus. I would enjoy them in the same degree, if these brands would be actual, not fake, as long done such a way. Same for A3, only here they should fit Altis/Stratis/custom map. Question of creativity. Well, unless I would be irritated by a fact alone, so this is real advertisement. I could understand people feeling that way.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Rydygier

[eggbeast 3684]

you could have a ball making up some stuff that was entertaining and relevant.

we are in the middle of making a molotov cocktail with different vodka bottle labels on them like:

"Finnish Pete's Potent Party Starter"

"Bad Samaritans Burning Engine"

"Bills morning warm-up juice"

"Military-grade eyewash"

"Dr. Screams patent crab remover"

"Egg's effective crowd disperser"

and so on...

all with their own little comedy label images

it's kind of easter-eggy and kind-of an in-joke, but you get the idea...

you could go all GTA and link stuff like that to billboards and radios playing news with ads... we have those radios in unsung vietnam mod in A2, and they're absolutely priceless.

[Mirek 166]

If the advertising will be like real brand names on bottles, boxes, etc. Real advertisement on billboards by the road (on custom maps) then why not?

It will add a tiny bit to the imersion and if it gives the mod creator chance to make some extra money, then iam all for it.

[oksman 37]

I think it would be an addition. Arma 3 for me already stands as a realistic game and adding authentic stuff such as Soda's and other stuff from reality would only improve, and if BI makes a buck out of it helping to improve the game, why not?