[SP] HETMAN: War Stories

[Rydygier 1309]

edit: in HAL for Arma 2 there was a script you had that could be put into init line of editor object and it spit out classnames to the RPT file... is this still part of A2 HAL and do you remember the file name of the script?

Now it is built in into HAL. Run HAL with config: RydHQ_RHQCheck = true; (returns on screen hint and more detailed, RPT report)

Not tried with HWS, I hope works OK.

As for A2 HAC, the file was named like RHQCheck.sqf.

[SavageCDN 231]

Thanks!!!

[Rydygier 1309]

"Dev branch" updated to beta 4.

Internal code fixes and improvements only:

- this annoying tiny Sagonisi island marked on Altis map as village type location will be no more chosen as battlefield;

- defend missions for side holding some areas on the map will be not always (but still often) set at these already held locations;

- fixes for debriefing statistics code;

- minor stuff.

[tortuosit 486]

Hmm, unlike in Pilgrimage, your BIS_fnc_addCommMenuItem in init.sqf kills my dynamic weather mods support menu entries, not yet sure why... I don't know the order, but obviously your init.sqf comes after my addons init.sqf.

Rydygier, btw: Do you have an idea if support menus can stay on screen when clicking a menu entry? Its possible in addAction menus, but I do not see that its possible in support menus...

Edited August 28, 2014 by tortuosit

[Rydygier 1309]

Hmm. All, I know about this, is here (and function itself viewable from editor like the others). AFAIK those, I'm using in HWS differ from Pilgrimage's only by visible on-screen notification about adding the item. And there is less of them. The only problem, I can see, is the limit - max is 10 at once. I don't think, is possible to overwrite one support by another, although do not know, what happens, if code attempts to exceed available limit.

[kremator 1065]

Played beta4 twice yesterday ... once, it put me as a tank driver and we drove the enemy back. Second time I was a littlebird pilot tasked with moving people around. I didn't get to finish the last one as I was tasked to put a group of 3 troops right into a hot area .... didn't last long there :) Really enjoy it however.

[d4ni3l3 10]

It is possible to use this with other terrains like takistan or similar?

[Rydygier 1309]

May be prepared version for other map. Tried to make HWS easy to port, personally I'll wait with this until code is final to avoid parallel development for more than one version at a time, but you're welcome to try yourself. De-pbo the mission, open in editor, copy all, what map contains into desired map, save the mission and paste into newly saved mission folder all but mission.sqm from HWS folder. With some luck this may work as is. If not - well, some manual code editing may be necessary, not sure roght now.

[d4ni3l3 10]

May be prepared version for other map. Tried to make HWS easy to port, personally I'll wait with this until code is final to avoid parallel development for more than one version at a time, but you're welcome to try yourself. De-pbo the mission, open in editor, copy all, what map contains into desired map, save the mission and paste into newly saved mission folder all but mission.sqm from HWS folder. With some luck this may work as is. If not - well, some manual code editing may be necessary, not sure roght now.

Thanks! :)

[ophirb 13]

Having played through several battles in the latest beta, I get the feeling that morale breaks far too soon. Battles end up being very short, and as far as I can tell there usually are still plenty of troops roaming around and a decent chance for a comeback.

Perhaps one side should only be able to "forfeit" after having sustained a certain percentage of casualties (70%-85%)?

Also another suggestion: an option to choose the amount of armor for each side would be very nice. :)

And again thanks!

[Rydygier 1309]

Morale - it really depends. I had relatively short battles, when sides was initial very close and one had big advantage (severe losess in short time means rapid morale drop), but I played also very long battles. Morale was tweaked, tested and adjusted by few years of Hetman development and I'm quite happy with current setting. If morale drops fast - there is a good reason. Usually, and this way it should be, loosing of 40-50% of men in one day is more than enough to bring morale low. There may be still as many units alive, but so what, if they just saw annihilation of the first half of them? Shouldn't they have enough of this slaughter? I don't think, so it is usually needed to kill most of enemies to make them withdraw. Also IMO unit, that sustained such losses is usually considered combat ineffective and withdrawn anyway. Besides, morale is a bit strange thing, much more complex than just result of forces and losses comparison.

Of course, I'm open on any suggestions about that, especially from people, that know, how it is in reality.

Armor/Soft ratio - doable, that would affect amount of armored units parallel to calculation based on kind of terrain. But I must think, if I like that idea.

Thanks for feedback. :)

Edited September 2, 2014 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1309]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.05 beta 5:

Adjusted kind of battle randomizing;

adjusted task force composition randomizing in relation with battlefield's topography;

added settings to customize statistical percentage of mechanized/armored units.

Armor percentage works statistically, alters chance of occuring armored units, does not guarantee anything. It affects that chance in parallel with terrain type.

Any ideas for cool and stylish logo picture?

Edited September 4, 2014 by Rydygier

[SavageCDN 231]

Great will check it out this weekend.

For logo you mean mission loading screen pic?

[Rydygier 1309]

For logo you mean mission loading screen pic?

Yep. Meant to use also for scenarios choosing screen, this thread, who knows, what else (Workshop?) - just general graphical "face" of the mission. Like this for Hetman itself. I want to add something nice enough before next official update, and though, someone can have better ideas, than I (none good enough so far).

[SavageCDN 231]

Well if I had a lick of talent in graphic design I would help out :p Get some interesting pics just googling "war stories"

[Rydygier 1309]

Second is nice. :) Sadly, I haven't any graphic skills too besides rudimentary GIMP usage. So I'll need to find something in my reach.

[SavageCDN 231]

yeah if it's not MS Paint I'm lost :p

[alky_lee 279]

I have knocked together a quick image (1024 x 512 pixels) if this is any good.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7034905/HWS.gif (241 kB)

[mbrdmn 10]

Hi Rydygier, I've also done a quick logo for you to look at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/snmo5ssrqrvii6k/hws.jpg?dl=0

Really enjoying the mission - I was hoping you'd add an option to change the armour makeup of each side - I had a play around with it last night and it works great.

[alky_lee 279]

How are units selected for this mission? I am using Ivory Aircraft Mods, but I have found aircraft on the ground on a couple of missions. I have disabled the mods for now as well as TPW air which should stop that happening.

The AI are in need of much improvement. Does bCombat improve things with the infantry movement and help to prolong the battles? In my last mission, the squad I was in dismounted from a Marshal only for the AI to collect in a huddle in the middle of the road while they all "covered" each other. It was quite funny really, but it did destroy the immersion that had built up so well. We had also been dropped 1k from the enemy. By the time the squad got organised and started to move into town, and with the fatigue system, the enemy had already been pushed back into the sea.

[Rydygier 1309]

Thanks for logo ideas guys, I'm working on it too, yesterday evening I was searching trough tons of military photos and such, found only very few promising, I'll continue, more ideas stilll very welcome.

How are units selected for this mission? I am using Ivory Aircraft Mods, but I have found aircraft on the ground on a couple of missions.

By it's Hetman's category. As for vanilla units - these have predefined categories, as for custom units - code does its best to categorize them properly selecting by the config entries to determine, what is what. It should work well, if config is typical (vanilla-like). Vanilla planes are excluded. Custom planes wasn't tested, maybe config sifting fails to exclude those for some reason - do not use custom planes, only choppers. I'm unable to test every addon. Planes, by it's demanding nature (airfield needed), doesn't fit well here. Maybe in the future will be spawned in the air, not sure.

EDIT: all right, for next version added code, that should effectively sift off any aerial units of non-helicopter simulation.

So, using this category, HWS chooses for each side basing on the chosen terrain, kind of mission (defend/attack), scale of battle, forces ratio and armor density a mixture of groups took randomly in calculated proportions from one of four basic meta-categories: foot infantry, motorized, mechanized, tanks (and SP arty). Additionally may be allocated some supporting units: aerial (choppers intended), static weaponry, logistical/medical support, cargo transport (trucks).

Does bCombat improve things with the infantry movement and help to prolong the battles?

Should do, what it usually does. Hetman is focused on issuing waypoints to the groups, manipulates also group's behaviour, formation and combat mode. Can't do anything to fix vanilla low-level AI though. As said in Pilgrimage thread, for mission like this broken AI becomes sadly one of the main immersion breakers - waypoints are given, but as for details, it all relies on low-level AI. You'll probably see more disturbing things, bCombat or not. Modders can add new things/expand AI abilities, but have very limited possibilities to fix (rather workaround), what is broken in vanilla, and vanilla AI seems malfunctioning seriously in several places. Example - in my today first test I, irritated, exited battle after few minutes when, again, APC rammed to death my TL. And it looked like intentional manslaughter - if APC would just keep riding along the road, all would be fine, but driver apparently reacted on the TL presence near by slight turning toward him, just enough to score another "friendly kill" notch. And such things happens on common basis.

We had also been dropped 1k from the enemy. By the time the squad got organised and started to move into town, and with the fatigue system, the enemy had already been pushed back into the sea.

That's quite possible and nothing wrong here. Not all groups will be used directly in first assault, and not all, what's planned happens accordingly in the chaos of battle.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Rydygier

[Rydygier 1309]

HWS 1.05 released. Changelog:

- adjusted kind of battle randomizing;

- adjusted force composition randomizing;

- added settings to customize statistical percentage of mechanized/armored units;

- fixed morale drop calculating when Leader is killed;

- expanded debriefing with new sections;

- panic or surrender behaviors should now occur mostly/only when enemy is near the group;

- various code fixes.

Update includes also loading picture. Thanks for all ideas, if someone may suggest better, than used - show me. :)

Soon this version should be available also via Workshop. :/

Edited September 6, 2014 by Rydygier

[alky_lee 279]

By it's Hetman's category. As for vanilla units - these have predefined categories, as for custom units - code does its best to categorize them properly selecting by the config entries to determine, what is what.

I re-enabled TPW Air and that worked OK, so it must be to do with the mods. I have downloaded the latest version of the mission. I will install that later and try with the mods again. They are not essential though. The vanilla aircraft are sufficient to provide ambience through TPW air.

As said in Pilgrimage thread, for mission like this broken AI becomes sadly one of the main immersion breakers - waypoints are given, but as for details, it all relies on low-level AI. You'll probably see more disturbing things, bCombat or not. Modders can add new things/expand AI abilities, but have very limited possibilities to fix (rather workaround), what is broken in vanilla, and vanilla AI seems malfunctioning seriously in several places.

With bCombat enabled, it reduced the amount of covering when disembarking but did not eradicate it completely. It did however transform the enemies approach when they were coming for me and things were not going well for my side. I was in one of the big cargo towers that AI normally use for committing suicide, and with bCombat, the enemy AI came up into the tower to attack me.

That's quite possible and nothing wrong here. Not all groups will be used directly in first assault, and not all, what's planned happens accordingly in the chaos of battle.

I could accept that in that mission. However in my latest mission, I was a team member in a Hunter again. We moved to the front of the battle area, drove past and around an enemy fireteam just yards away, but didn't engage them and they didn't engage us either. We then returned to dead ground and disembarked and waited. I then decided to go Lone Wolf to take out the fireteam, which I did, but then the enemy started to advance in numbers and I died. I used Team Switch to change to another unit, and continue the battle. I died again and I am now on my fifth unit using the cargo tower as a defensive position which is working well so far. I go out during lulls in the fighting to collect weapons/ammunition from dead enemies that make it to the FOB, but I think I may have broken the mission. I have seen a message pop up about morale, but the mission hasn't completed. Also despite having killed dozens of enemy, there is an endless procession of enemy squads coming towards me. Will enemy squads continue to spawn or are enemy numbers finite from the mission start? Also is there a gravedigger script, as I am amassing quite a collection of dead bodies around my position?

With surrendered units, is there a way to un-surrender them? Having fought our way to their position, we had to leave them behind when we retreated again, and now they are stood in the middle of the enemy positions and at risk of friendly fire.

I have also experienced a couple of CTD events. Both times were in the mission debriefing screen. I can look through the debriefing screens OK, but when I click continue the CTD occurs. It has happened twice out of five missions so far but is not a mission breaker, as it has already ended. I can't see anything in the feedback tracker to suggest that it is a problem for others.

As far as the mission goes, having now gone lone wolf, I have been involved in some tense CQB, especially as I forgot I had enabled bCombat and found myself flanked and surrounded on occasions. Will I go lone wolf again? Probably, especially if the stupid AI becomes immersion breaking at all. I am not one for total immersion at the expense of entertainment, but the manoeuvring can be entertaining in it's own way, if only to see where you end up on the battlefield. At least there is the option to team switch into another role without going against orders, rather than go lone wolf.

[Rydygier 1309]

I have seen a message pop up about morale, but the mission hasn't completed.

Something to check. Such message is shown only, when mission should be about to end (although it still may take few dozens of seconds before actual end). So code must stuck somewhere at this point. RPT log could helpful here...

Will enemy squads continue to spawn or are enemy numbers finite from the mission start?

Nothing is spawned after init. Nothing new appears on the battlefield after initial setting of the armies. If you allow to be spotted, you may find yourself in that kind of situation, as opposite commander, if possible, will not ignore your (any hostile) presence.

Also is there a gravedigger script, as I am amassing quite a collection of dead bodies around my position?

No spawns, so no gravedigger too. You just apparently went into hornet's nest situation. That morale message was about the enemy morale? If you killed so many of them, you might win the battle in Rambo style by killing so many of them and breaking their morale . :)

With surrendered units, is there a way to un-surrender them?

No, it's permanent. Usually, if groups of one side start to surrender, end of the battle is near... Man, sounds like quite intense battle you got...

I have also experienced a couple of CTD events. Both times were in the mission debriefing screen. I can look through the debriefing screens OK, but when I click continue the CTD occurs.

Unknown to me. I'm getting CTDs at every several new game loading though, but that's usual for Arma.

[alky_lee 279]

Something to check. Such message is shown only, when mission should be about to end (although it still may take few dozens of seconds before actual end). So code must stuck somewhere at this point. RPT log could helpful here...

Full Rpt Log is at https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7034905/arma3_2014-09-06_08-58-31.rpt

Errors that I have identified are:

Error loading control config.bin/RscDisplayTeamSwitch/Controls/CA_TSTitle/
Error loading control config.bin/RscDisplayTeamSwitch/Controls/CA_TSTitle/
Error in expression <anger = _x getVariable ["NearE",0];
if (_inDanger > 0.05) then
{
if ((random 100>
 Error position: <_inDanger > 0.05) then
{
if ((random 100>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _indanger
Error loading control config.bin/RscDisplayTeamSwitch/Controls/CA_TSTitle/


Error in expression <_HQ getVariable ["RydHQ_NObj",1]) <= 2) then {_Lpos = getPosATL (vehicle (_HQ ge>
 Error position: <then {_Lpos = getPosATL (vehicle (_HQ ge>
 Error then: Type switch, expected if


 Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <_difR = ((_grpIconColorEnd select 0) - (_grpIconColor select 0)) * _step;
_difG >
 Error position: <_grpIconColor select 0)) * _step;
_difG >
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 29
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35
Error in expression <i" from 0 to _fadetime step _delay do {
_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error position: <_grpIconColor set [0,(_grpIconColor sele>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _grpiconcolor
File A3\modules_f\marta\data\scripts\fnc_effect.sqf, line 35


Error in expression <anger = _x getVariable ["NearE",0];
if (_inDanger > 0.05) then
{
if ((random 100>
 Error position: <_inDanger > 0.05) then
{
if ((random 100>
 Error Undefined variable in expression: _indanger
"END OF BATTLE"


Error in expression <hen
{
_awardedList = _awardedList + (_x getVariable ["WS_myName",name _sd]) + "<>
 Error position: <getVariable ["WS_myName",name _sd]) + "<>
 Error getvariable: Type Array, expected Namespace,Object,Group,Control,Team member,Task,Location
File missions\__cur_sp.altis\init.sqf, line 2305

No spawns, so no gravedigger too. You just apparently went into hornet's nest situation. That morale message was about the enemy morale? If you killed so many of them, you might win the battle in Rambo style by killing so many of them and breaking their morale .

In that case I think the battle will continue until I say it's over. At least I should be able to wipe out the entire attacking army (in theory). I think we lost a long time ago, but as the mission ending did not work, I can continue against the odds and eradicate their entire army or die trying.

Usually, if groups of one side start to surrender, end of the battle is near... Man, sounds like quite intense battle you got...

There are three friendlies and three enemy that have surrendered in the same area. The battle was my attempt to provide a longer engagement by tweaking the settings at mission start. I changed the ratio to 2:3, gave the enemy very low chance of armour & friendlies low chance of armour. Unfortunately our armour advantage was neutralised without having much effect on the enemy.

Unknown to me. I'm getting CTDs at every several new game loading though, but that's usual for Arma.

Looking at my RPT file it would appear that the crash is a PhysX error.