A plea to BI: Please let us choose when to update. Automatic updates break the game.

[mamasan8 11]

Wow that was a seriously funny joke, the mods MAKE this game, without the mods this game would be nothing, sorry to break that bubble for you. What are the most popular things that game has? DayZ? Mod, Wasteland? Mod, Altis Life? Mod. They depend on mods without mods they have nothing, I'm sorry but they need mods to survive. Also those "few players" are not "few" There a THOUSANDS of players that relay on these broken mods, most of them are realism units or something similar.

"Do not update" didn't work for me either, it forced itself on my machine. I stopped it several times until lastly Steam had downloaded the whole update and then it was too late.

Sucks. Euro truck sim 2 has all of their versions as selectable on Steam, can't see why Arma 3 can't do the same. Another mod-heavy game.

People tend to gravitate towards an update that is best for them. If its a milsim community, chances are 99,9% of users are NEVER going to even hear about that community.

Splitting communities? I don't think so.

At least in previous Armas, we could install betas etc as separate exes. Now we can't even do that, its stable OR dev branch.

[chortles 263]

Part of the point/appeal of Wasteland is "mods NOT required", unlike say Tactical Battlefield, even if those less familiar with Arma misidentify 'missions'/scenarios as mods...

At least in previous Armas, we could install betas etc as separate exes. Now we can't even do that, its stable OR dev branch.

Working as intended.

[haleks 8212]

Has Arma3 become casual?

*shudders*

[PuFu 4600]

I have many games set to do not update that somehow find a way around that setting..

that is weird indeed, but then again, not BI's issue but steam's. did a quick search, it seems indeed a lot are affected by this, and it has been reported several times before.

The problem here is not faced by the whole Arma community granted, anyone who is not part of a realism unit for example probably doesn't give a fuck or even doesn't know there is a problem at all. But when EVERYTHING you use in game is 3rd party mods (due to Bohemia's choice of setting and choice regarding levels of realism mostly) and you have to organize 500-600 people into set operations each fortnight then Bohemia's updates, which add nothing of value to those communities really (i mean that VR map is the LAZIEST piece of content making i've ever seen), instead literally break the game.

ok, it has nothing to do with "realism" (it always makes me chuckle inside for a bit) units or not. It is a matter of smaller or bigger squads that are, to certain degree, dependent on 3rd party content. That being said, most of these units (been part of a few myself), do have a tendency of keeping their own "clan's mod" up to date, removing or adding to it. That being said, the issues that you call "breaking the game" can easily be fixed with a config overwrite from your part.

I've always been of the opinion that Bohemia should focus on making engines and let the mod-makers deal with the content because that's always been where the best components of Arma originate... And obviously yes i still support this thread - The thing you guys who are complaining about splinters ect have to realise is that WE WOULD NOT BE RAISING TICKETS ON THE PREVIOUS VERSION. The whole point we are making here is that the previous version worked for our needs. Its the changes that fuck everything up for us because we really do not use anything from Bohemia's content list.

again, you expect things to be handled by someone else: be it BI or addon makers. Why don't you simply fix the problems yourself, the guidelines have been written by BI already (i am sure you're going to hide behind: but i don't know how / don't have the time to do it).

What I'm saying is that every time the game pushes an update through that we can't stop from happening, it's a huge roll of the dice to see if your mods will continue working. There have been several A3 updates since release that have broken a variety of mods at different times. Some more severe than others. Some have been caught and fixed in a timely manner, some not.

Yes, but that is precisely what happens when there is a continuous development towards a game. It is a "risk" everyone doing content is familiar with. Do you think everyone who has released something, or has already did the configs preparing for a release is happy doing some more changes? No one actually is, but it is something most seem to understand.

How can you say this? A massive part of the ArmA community is the units in the community. These units rely on a game that doesn't break every time the game is updated. In ArmA 2, this wasn't a concern because the update wasn't automatically forced through regardless of user desire, and even if you accidentally updated, you could roll-back your game version. This is simply not an option in ArmA 3. There are a couple of different scenarios where this could be devastating to any given ArmA 3 player or unit:

Yes i know, i am also part (although i rarely have the time for gaming these days) of the same squad/clan, dating since ArmA1. But i still don't get your point entirely.

a. The game is not broken. It is actually getting better and better.

b. ArmA2 style of update was a complete headache for the developers. ArmA3 allows for a steadier development process with live feedback from the user that translates to better and more comprehensive overall stable releases.

1) Everyone in the unit has their game set to not update via steam(this is already nearly impossible because steam pushes updates through this setting already). Then someone new wants to join the unit, but they've updated. They have no option to roll back their game version, so they cannot join until the unit's modpack is greenlit for the update.

2) A current unit member somehow accidentally updates his game version. Since the rest of the unit doesn't have the game updated, he can no longer play with his own unit because there is no rollback option.

3) An automatic update breaks one or more mods that a unit is heavily reliant upon(this last update). The entire unit is no longer able to operate because nobody knows which mod is broken. the rpt file is showing nothing conclusive. There are literally dozens of people trying to identify the issue, but can't. The unit misses several missions/operations because an update that nobody was ready for was forced through with no option to stop it. The unit sits in a state of stagnation bleeding members until the problem(s) is/are identified and fix(es) is/are found. If there was an option either stop the update or to roll-back the update to the previous version, this wouldn't even be an issue.

1. isn't it easier just to stay up to date?

2. same as above

3. if you'd be more specific i'm sure you'd get an answer and or help regarding the culprit. That being said, the easiest way to deal with mods when there is conflict and/or issues, is to test them one by one. I don't wanna ask the obvious question like: why can't "dozens" of people pinpoint an issue, since the changes that BI did with 1.24 are already written down, and affect the way suppresors (and some sounds) are handled, and nothing else. Again, even with a mod that receives not more updates (as in there is no more support for it), this can be solved by having a config for it, without even touching the original one, just in case that gets eventually fixed by the author. So there are ways to deal with your unit's problems regarding 3rd party content on your own. Yes, that means time and effort, agreed, but you already seem to be spending a lot of those here and i am sure with your unit trying to solve it/

You say that steam updates are a "real strength". I say that they are a devastating weakness and flaw to a large part of the ArmA community.

We simply need a way to control which version of the game we are currently running. The ability to 1) stop the game from updating automatically and; 2) roll-back the version of a game 1-2 versions would greatly alleviate the issue that could cause the potential crumbling of a unit.

A lot of you guys are acting like I'm saying that I never want to update the game and don't think anyone else should either, or that BI shouldn't update ArmA 3. A weak attempt at deconstructing my argument and putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

Yes, steam updates are a real strength, and Bi seems to agree with it since they say it was one of the main reasons they went with Steam exclusive for A3.

1. again, nothing to do with BI

2. i would have nothing against it really, but i doubt Steams allows numerous branches, besides the existing ones: stable and beta. I might be wrong here though.

What everyone seems to be saying (without putting "stuff in your mouth") is that even with updates, there are easy and obvious workarounds to fix your problems. BI should move ahead on schedule, no matter if they break a mod or two along the way, especially since the so called "breaks" can easily be fix with only a small config update (be it written by the user or by a 3rd party), and they have announced the changes under the hood about a month ago.

I never said that. I said that we should be able to stop our OWN version of the game from updating and have the ability to roll it back. Not that BI should stop updating ArmA. Where did you even infer that that's the point I was trying to make? I'm talking about a client-side solution to a problem that would have no effect on the ArmA playerbase that the issue didn't affect. I greatly look forward to every update that comes, but that doesn't mean that there aren't issues, as stated in this thread, that have a large effect on ArmA communities due to them being forced through with no options.

The title of this thread is : Automatic updates breaks the game

Again, there are NO issues with the game.

Bi does NOT force it to you. If anyone, that is Steam (again, i personally never had an issue with games updating without me allowing it - yes, Steam is up to date). It is like saying that the latest nVidia/AMD drivers that are performing worse than before is BI's fault, because A3 uses them to run...

The roll back thing might be possible and that is in BI's back yard, but that being said, i am not sure it is possible.

Keeping my game in offline mode? I'm talking about an issue that effects a multi-player unit. I stated that several times in the original post. Like I said, you're just pulling parts of what I said and applying your own bias to the argument.

I fail to see how giving people the option to control which version of the game they run is a bad thing for the game or for the community.

Keeping your Steam in offline mode is what i meant, before you set it NOT to update. Yes, a bit weird to do, but that's the best solution i could find for you regarding your problems with steam overwriting your "no updates" status. BTW, are you running UAC (win 7 and 8)?

Yes, more options is better for everyone, i agree. But that being said, i think this is so low on the priority list for BI, especially since it isn't all under their own control. And to be perfectly honest, i would rather have them work on things that matter more, for yourself and other squads and for others as well.

Wow that was a seriously funny joke, the mods MAKE this game, without the mods this game would be nothing, sorry to break that bubble for you. What are the most popular things that game has? DayZ? Mod, Wasteland? Mod, Altis Life? Mod. They depend on mods without mods they have nothing, I'm sorry but they need mods to survive. Also those "few players" are not "few" There a THOUSANDS of players that relay on these broken mods, most of them are realism units or something similar.

You seem to be confused about what a mod is, and what a mission is. AFAIK, no mission was affected by the 1.24 update (correct me if i'm wrong).

Has Arma3 become casual?

what led you to this conclussion?

Edited July 22, 2014 by PuFu

[haleks 8212]

what led you to this conclusion?

Just a silly joke on people not being able to disable steam auto-updates. ^^'

Anyway, on topic : if you guys fear the updates so much, just launch Steam in offline mode whenever you can and backup the Addons folder as well as the .exe.

That's pretty much the only way to protect yourselves from accidental updates.

[NetZeo 10]

Hi, sorry for my english,

I just want to know if is it possible to decrease my version of Arma 3 because I don't have disable my "Automaticaly update" in Steam and now I can't join almost all server.

Thx all !

[kremator 1065]

Different version will cause you to fail to connect to servers. THIS is why everyone should be forced to always have the latest version.

[NetZeo 10]

Ok, and can I change my version for an older version ? (1.24*** --> 1.24)

[zimms 22]

I don't think so.

[Guest]

ok, it has nothing to do with "realism" (it always makes me chuckle inside for a bit) units or not. It is a matter of smaller or bigger squads that are, to certain degree, dependent on 3rd party content. That being said, most of these units (been part of a few myself), do have a tendency of keeping their own "clan's mod" up to date, removing or adding to it. That being said, the issues that you call "breaking the game" can easily be fixed with a config overwrite from your part.

We are undoutably the largest arma realism unit. We have 3 COMPANIES of infantry alone, with supporting elements included you are looking at around 600 people. So believe me when i say that a lot of very talented people have been looking into fixing the problems on our end but still weeks have gone by with evasive problems crashing servers

again, you expect things to be handled by someone else: be it BI or addon makers. Why don't you simply fix the problems yourself, the guidelines have been written by BI already (i am sure you're going to hide behind: but i don't know how / don't have the time to do it).

no no, as a modmaker myself and part of the 15th MEU mod team we are trying to fix the issues as we speak but I think you greatly underestimate the amount of work involved in this. Work we may have to repeat every time there is another 'karts' or 6 flat faced 'vr cube map' added to the game..

Yes i know, i am also part (although i rarely have the time for gaming these days) of the same squad/clan, dating since ArmA1. But i still don't get your point entirely.

I think you again misunderstand the difference in impact this has between a single squad as you describe and a unit of the size that we have to organize and keep running smoothly.

The roll back thing might be possible and that is in BI's back yard, but that being said, i am not sure it is possible.

This is all we are asking for. To be able to roll back to the previous version, not to stop others from recieving automatic updates, just to be able to roll back to a previous version to give us time to fix mods our side of things which as i hope we've established now, takes some time. As someone else pointed out Steam keeps every previous version of Euro Truck Simulator available for download so it is possible to have previous versions of a game available. This would at least allow business as normal until we are ready to move to the latest version...

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

Different version will cause you to fail to connect to servers. THIS is why everyone should be forced to always have the latest version.

If your unit is run correctly then why would anyone be running the wrong version?

---------- Post added at 11:52 ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 ----------

Euro truck sim 2 has all of their versions as selectable on Steam, can't see why Arma 3 can't do the same. Another mod-heavy game.

People tend to gravitate towards an update that is best for them. If its a milsim community, chances are 99,9% of users are NEVER going to even hear about that community.

Splitting communities? I don't think so.

At least in previous Armas, we could install betas etc as separate exes. Now we can't even do that, its stable OR dev branch.

^This exactly!

Edited July 23, 2014 by Guest

[PuFu 4600]

We are undoutably the largest arma realism unit. We have 3 COMPANIES of infantry alone, with supporting elements included you are looking at around 600 people. So believe me when i say that a lot of very talented people have been looking into fixing the problems on our end but still weeks have gone by with evasive problems crashing servers

well, good for you then. I can already tell you that the issues with mods that were introduced with 1.24 are fixable wihout much headache. I won't question the talent of those people, but still, it shouldn't be weeks.

no no, as a modmaker myself and part of the 15th MEU mod team we are trying to fix the issues as we speak but I think you greatly underestimate the amount of work involved in this. Work we may have to repeat every time there is another 'karts' or 6 flat faced 'vr cube map' added to the game..

It is obviously dependent on the amount of mods created by separate people that you as a unit are dependent on. If you are to repeat this or not, it is not really obvious.

I think you again misunderstand the difference in impact this has between a single squad as you describe and a unit of the size that we have to organize and keep running smoothly.

I fail to see how this is different, bar the fact there is more people to hold hands for, since from what i gather both me and you are running a mod collection of your own.

"Do not update" didn't work for me either, it forced itself on my machine. I stopped it several times until lastly Steam had downloaded the whole update and then it was too late.

Sucks. Euro truck sim 2 has all of their versions as selectable on Steam, can't see why Arma 3 can't do the same. Another mod-heavy game.

People tend to gravitate towards an update that is best for them. If its a milsim community, chances are 99,9% of users are NEVER going to even hear about that community.

Splitting communities? I don't think so.

At least in previous Armas, we could install betas etc as separate exes. Now we can't even do that, its stable OR dev branch.

"Do not update" didn't work for me either, it forced itself on my machine. I stopped it several times until lastly Steam had downloaded the whole update and then it was too late.

Sucks. Euro truck sim 2 has all of their versions as selectable on Steam, can't see why Arma 3 can't do the same. Another mod-heavy game.

People tend to gravitate towards an update that is best for them. If its a milsim community, chances are 99,9% of users are NEVER going to even hear about that community.

Splitting communities? I don't think so.

At least in previous Armas, we could install betas etc as separate exes. Now we can't even do that, its stable OR dev branch.

Well, i wasn't aware that Steam allows multiple branches. I really see no reason why for A3 it can't be Stable, Dev and Last or alike

[NetZeo 10]

OMG I buy this game 40€ and after one update I cant join almost all the great server. And I dont speak of bug like the désync ...

[phantomphan 54]

Is anyone else's mods sound disappearing? My F/A-18 and SU-35 from John Saul, Pearl A-10C, Massi's weapons RobertHammer's pistols and M4/M16 and FHQ M4A3's gun sound do not wok, they still do damage and make impact noises, but only default game sounds work. What is going on and how can I fix it.

[mamasan8 11]

Is anyone else's mods sound disappearing? My F/A-18 and SU-35 from John Saul, Pearl A-10C, Massi's weapons RobertHammer's pistols and M4/M16 and FHQ M4A3's gun sound do not wok, they still do damage and make impact noises, but only default game sounds work. What is going on and how can I fix it.

Update 1.24 broke all mod-sounds. Check if the mod authors (or some other dude) have released a config fix.

[phantomphan 54]

Thanks, and I was all excited for the virtual arsenal too.

[chortles 263]

I dunno about FHQ M4, but there's updates or separate fixes out for RH M4/M16 and Massi's weapons already.

[sweets438 10]

You seem to be confused about what a mod is, and what a mission is. AFAIK, no mission was affected by the 1.24 update (correct me if i'm wrong).

No YOU seemed to be confused about what a mission is and a mod is. Wasteland is a MOD not a mission, DayZ is a MOD not a mission. I never mentioned missions, and this topic is not about missions it's about mods and how they are breaking because of updates BI is releasing. You just have been talking about how easy it is to fix these mods when it's not for the average person. A average person wouldn't even know where to start, only modders or people with experience actually know how to fix it, and then trying to describe this fix to thousands of people? Good luck with that. BI and steam just need to get together and let us have older versions.

[hamhugger 10]

Hmmm, let me see...., Development of the game, or serve the few who cant even stop a update.... Or splinter the versions, and tickets, so a "few" players wont be upset because they cant play when they want to. Heck Bis even posts days ahead of time they are going to update...

If Steam is broke... then your lame. I have never seen a "Do Not Update" update.... Or have it change under properties of the game. Been on Steam since the Beta, way back....hmmm this just seems more of the "Looter" mentality. So I vote no, and say; Roll on Bis, roll on with the Updates!!!

Game over mods. Game is bigger than mods.

BUT for all that is great and cute, UPDATE the tools and DOCs!!

I don't like this idea, it would fragment the community. The dev version exists to (try) to make sure that big problems never make the main branch. It seems to work to me (mostly). To their credit, from what I have seen, they don't take long to fix serious problems.

Not supporting this thread at all. MANY different versions of Arma2 is what kept splitting the community. If you have problems with the latest patch perhaps you should help out with DEV version and post bugs you find. Stable branch tries to be as stable as possible (obviously) but occasionally bugs will get through. Worst case scenario is another patch 2-3 weeks away. Find me another developer that does that!

I fully support automatic updates, and as much as I don't 'love' Steam yet, it is one of the real strengths.

I dont understand the push back about having the option to select different branches. The only people who would opt in and select a different branch are people who choose to. I fail to see how this would effect anyone negatively. It seems like you think we dont want to update because we think the updates are not needed or we want you to have to manually update. Automatic updates should and always be the default option unless you choose other wise. We would only like this feature so we can continue to play uninterrupted and not have a mad dash to figure out what mods need to be fixed so our servers dont crash an hour or two into an operation making it a huge waste of time. There are a lot people who put hours of work each week preparing each operation and we have a dedicated mod team that looks into these issues and for the most part are pretty capable people. It would be a load off their shoulders if they didnt have to work relentlessly until the next op to ensure everything will go smooth.

As as your worry about splitting the community, they community is already split a million ways with the abundant of mods that servers have enabled. Anyone who would opt in for a different branch would most likely would not play on a public server anyways. And the public servers like King of the Hill and Wasteland would obviously keep their servers up to date with the latest build since they are a public server.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Hamhugger

[Greenfist 1863]

After today's update:

A new Steam branch is now available for advanced users: Legacy Build (1.24). As its name implies, it contains the previous main branch version. It can be used to compare specific changes between major releases. The access code for this branch is: Arma3Legacy124

http://dev.arma3.com/post/spotrep-00030

[gambla 10]

I logged back in to the forums after a long time just because i've found this thread. I absolutely support the OP because there's a quite simple reason, every automatic update, even if it's only 5 KB, will fu** up your savegames. ArmA3 is not only a MP game, it's SP as well. And imho it doesn't need any more reasons to stop it and i don't care who's taking care of that. You play one of the larger missions/campaigns for weeks, or even months, and you find it all ruined after an update. Not to talk about updates being disabled by default, there's no warning at all that updates will make savegames incompatible. I don't need all that steam online crap at all, but i need to feel sure that my savegames are safe.

[Rydygier 1309]

IMO is absolutelly obvious, so user should have full control if/when update his game. Should be informed, so an update is awaiting and should be asked, if install it now, or later. Especially, if each update breaks every saved game. Beeing forced to lose whole saved progress each patch release is... exactly, as it sounds. Really decent way to deter players.

So called "legacy branch" could be temporary, makeshift workaround (not so convenient and working only one update back) till professional solution implementation, if would cover every update, even most minor, otherwise is completely futile here. There was an option to disable auto-updates. For many it didn't work. Anyway, I see no more such option available. The only still existing defense against unwanted updates seems launching the plague called Steam only offline.

For me current situation in this matter is simply surrealistic. Incomprehensible.

[chortles 263]

The legacy branch already exists.