Weapon tests

[pooroldspike 129]

..what about the PDM-7's?..

Thanks, I've edited one into my previous post..:)

Edited May 22, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[Variable 322]

Moored Mine: bobs on the surface attached to the seabed by a cable and is easily spotted. Motorboats trigger it by hitting it. Rubber boats won't trigger it, they just skate over it.

What about subs? If an SDV moves beneath the surface level, in, say, 20 meters depth, will it trigger a moored mine? If so, at what depth will the SDV start to take damage?

[pooroldspike 129]

What about subs? If an SDV moves beneath the surface level, in, say, 20 meters depth, will it trigger a moored mine? If so, at what depth will the SDV start to take damage?

I'm going to test SDV's in due course, but meanwhile I'm still tying up some loose ends with the earlier mine tests and am editing amendments into the posts.

I've also been checking out the amphibious Marshall..:)

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MARSHALL versus NAVAL MINES

All mine types can detect a Marshall when it gets too close and will detonate.

For example here a Marshall gets too close to a PDM-7 mine in shallow water..

..and triggers it..

Incidentally, here's further evidence that the PDM-7 is a shallow water mine; I placed this one deeper than Elevation -5 and it couldn't detect the Marshall above it..

Edited May 22, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[CasualCreed 10]

nice info!

[Variable 322]

This is really informative. I'm glad I've found this thread. Thanks PoorOldSpike!

[pooroldspike 129]

nice info!

This is really informative. I'm glad I've found this thread. Thanks PoorOldSpike!

Thanks guys and if anybody's got any suggestions what they'd like me to test, let me know and i'll put them on my test list..:)

Incidentally all the tests are done with vanilla Arma3 straight out of the box and updated to to v.1.18, without any mods or addons of any kind.

(I also go back to edit, amend or correct earlier test posts if new information comes in)

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Here's a selection of assorted screenshot eye candy taken during the Mine testing..

Rubber boats must be too lightweight to trigger Moored mines, here I drive smack over one several times without triggering it..

..but the heavier Motorboat will trigger a Moored mine, sometimes when it bumps it, or if it gets too close..

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Like the Moored job,the Bottom mine can't detect Rubber boats either, here a Rubber sails over one but it doesn't detonate..

..but when this Motorboat drives over a Bottom mine..

It blows..

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Only the PDM-7 mine can detect Rubber boats, and only if they're placed no deeper than about -5.

Here a Rubber gets too close to a PDM-7 in shallow water..

..Boom, it blows and I get the "you were killed" message soon after..

Edited May 22, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

MINES vs SUBS

This SDV (Submersible Diving Vehicle) moves in towards a hostile coast to listen to the enemies rock n' roll, but it hasn't spotted that Moored mine..

..boom, it has now..

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The next sub doesn't spot that Bottom mine..

..boom..

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Along comes sub number three who doesn't see that PDM-7 mine..

..boom.. (as mentioned earlier, the PDM-7 is primarily a shallow water mine because its sensors are only short-range, so this sub probably wouldn't have triggered it if it'd stayed at periscope depth)

Edited May 23, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[mushroombat 10]

I like this idea

[aimerleg 1]

Ooh, are you by any chance going to test body protection? Carrier rigs and all, maybe some of which we have not seen such as Raven vest, police vest, etc.

During a mission, I saw the strangest thing. We cleared a compound and the CSAT squad which acted as reinforcements had 2 soldiers run over our charge, I detonated no more than 3-4m from them, one of them survived.... Could not run but survived and wounded my Grenadier O_o.

I also discovered a carrier rig light in black colour, sadly theres no black uniform that I know of....

[Greenfist 1863]

During a mission, I saw the strangest thing. We cleared a compound and the CSAT squad which acted as reinforcements had 2 soldiers run over our charge, I detonated no more than 3-4m from them, one of them survived.... Could not run but survived and wounded my Grenadier O_o.

I assume it was an explosive charge and not satchel. Their lethal blast radius is very small because they're supposed to be used for tactical breaching and demolition, not against infantry.

[five_seven5-7 56]

do the weapon test against flying helis please? LMG; AP rockets (guerilla style); RPG; .408/.50 cal

We have better luck in aiming to the cockpit or the tail section?

[pooroldspike 129]

...the effectiveness of shooting at underwater Frogmen?

ASSORTED WEAPONS AGAINST FROGMEN

Okay, as we saw with the tests on page 12, grenades thrown into the water will hurt/kill frogmen, so will firing an underwater rifle at them.

And the page 13 tests showed that ordinary rifle fire from land won't hurt frogmen.

For this new test series I placed these 10 frogmen at depth -10..

Then threw everything at them except the kitchen sink but nothing hurt them, so presumably the 10 metres of water above their heads acts as a cushion.

(Incidentally I fired the Slammers HE-T and AP with no effect.

Note the Panthers 40mm grenades don't explode when they hit water, and don't explode after sinking, so they're pretty much useless)

And for good measure I ran this new grenade test, lobbing 6 Frag grenades into the water from the jetty.

Notice the frogmen are almost invisible so I had to enable the markers to see where they are..

Aha, the 10 original markers are now only 5, so somebody must have copped it..

I dive in to check and yup, there are bodies lying on the seabed. Their mates are none too pleased and start shooting at me..

PS- in a Scorcher 155mm test I couldn't resist swimming out to see what a 155mm barrage looks like from underwater, here a shell detonates on the surface above the frogmen..

..and when I get there I see its left a crater on the seabed but nobody is hurt..

Edited May 24, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

CHANGING THE DEFAULT FIELD OF VIEW

Default FOV is '70' (a 70 degrees frontal arc) and if you're comfortable with that, fine, but if you want to widen or narrow it, these are the two lines you need to tweak near the bottom of your Docs>Arma3 Other Profiles file.

These are the default '70' figures, Top 0.75 and Left 1.34

..and this is how 70 looks..

But if you want to widen your FOV to 100 (more fisheye), change the lines to 1.17 and 2.06 and you'll be able to see more out of the corner of your eyes like this, but things in front of you will look very small..

..and if you want a narrow 50 FOV like this to enlarge things in front of you, change the lines to 0.47 and 0.86

NOTE: tweaking the figures is not vitally important as most of us are happy with 70 default.

And we can always overide the default by zooming in and out during the game anyway.

Just for the record, these are the FOV figures if anybody wants to experiment, each 10 degrees differs by increments of 14 and 24 respectively-

FOV 100: 1.17 and 2.06

FOV 90:1.03 and 1.82

FOV 80: 0.89 and 1.58

FOV 70: 0.75 and 1.34

FOV 60: 0.61 and 1.10

FOV 50: 0.47 and 0.86

Edited May 24, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[Tonci87 163]

I think projectiles can´t penetrate the water surface.

[Greenfist 1863]

FOV values in config are relative to aspect ratio so those mentioned only work with one ratio.

I think projectiles can´t penetrate the water surface.

Only infantry weapons that do are the divers' underwater guns:

I don't know about vehicle weapons though but I guess they can't either.

edit. interesting find while I'm at it: SDAR bullets travel faster and further in water than air:

Not very clear image but the best I got.

Two soldiers far on the right. The other is shooting above water and the other below.

Bullets in the air have lost 75% of their initial speed much earlier. (the point where the line turns from green to blue.)

The image isn't proportionate so the difference looks much bigger than it actually is.

Edited May 24, 2014 by Greenfist

[Gutsnav 13]

Normal rounds become useless after about 1 meter of underwater travel. The divers use super cavitating rounds, which have a special shape to be effective at like 25 meters of underwater travel. It's actually quite surprising to me that the bullets curve when shot at an angle (see picture in above comment).

Oh, and Spike, be aware that many weapons may change with the addition of DLCs and ongoing development. This also goes for their effects on vehicles (Mainly helicopters, but others are being worked on). But I guess your thread may help both BIS and the community to better understand how effective the weapons really are.

[Greenfist 1863]

Normal rounds become useless after about 1 meter of underwater travel. The divers use super cavitating rounds, which have a special shape to be effective at like 25 meters of underwater travel. It's actually quite surprising to me that the bullets curve when shot at an angle (see picture in above comment).

SDAR rounds are really accurate up to 100m in water and quite effective even at 50m. You'll never see any targets that far though. :)

[pooroldspike 129]

Thanks guys, yes future DLC's and developments, mod and addons might or might not make some of these tests obsolete, that's why I point out at strategic intervals that my tests are conducted with vanilla AA3 straight out of the box with no addons of any kind, and updated whenever updates come out (currently v 1.18).

And as I've also said, I always go back to edit old posts if new information come to light.

For example Greenfist has just pointed out that a frogman standing on the shore can fire his underwater rifle into the water.

That's very useful to know, as it now means there are 3 ways to kill frogmen-

1- Grenades tossed into the water

2- Underwater gunfights with UW rifles

3- Frogman firing his UW rifle into the water from the shore

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MORE GENERAL DABBLING WITH FROGMEN

I took out this kool 'Speedboat-minigun' to patrol the harbour...

..in the hope that its IR and NV would spot the frogmen, but no, I couldn't see them. I ran the test at day and night but it made no difference, the frogmen were invisible and the only way I knew they were there was by enabling their floating icons.

Needless to say, I hosed down the icon area with the boats minigun and GMG but the frogmen weren't hurt.

I also hoped I might be able to drop grenades on them from the boat like depth charges but there's no menu option to do that (sniffle)

As we saw earlier in my post at the top of page 12, an ordinary rifle firing from land into water can't hurt frogmen, but an underwater rifle can as Greenfist pointed out.

Here I stand on the quay and fire at a frogman with my UW rifle and his icon fades out (circled) as he begins to sink, hurt or dead (arrowed)..

I tossed in a few grenades to kill some more, and the survivors shot at me from underwater, and down I go..

Next test: I dive in and shoot at somebody on the quay..

and down he goes (circled). I'm arrowed..

Next test: I hold my fire to see what a bot frogman on the quay will do. He spots me and starts shooting with his UW rifle, and his bullets zip past..

He keeps shooting..

Ouch I'm dead..

Summary: submerged frogmen bots will fire at enemies on land.

Bot frogmen on land will fire at submerged enemy frogmen.

PS- although frogmen carry an explosive satchel it can't be placed underwater (I tried but no 'Place' menu option came up)

Likewise, they carry HE grenades but can't use them underwater.

Edited May 24, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[ceeeb 147]

CHANGING THE DEFAULT FIELD OF VIEW

Just for the record, these are the FOV figures if anybody wants to experiment, each 10 degrees differs by increments of 14 and 24 respectively-

FOV 100: 1.17 and 2.06

FOV 90:1.03 and 1.82

FOV 80: 0.89 and 1.58

FOV 70: 0.75 and 1.34

FOV 60: 0.61 and 1.10

FOV 50: 0.47 and 0.86

PoorOldSpike, your testing of weapon effectiveness is appreciated, but the FOV values you have given aren't correct for any aspect ratio. Please check your numbers. Reference: Some facts about zoom and Field of View (FOV) in Arma.

[pooroldspike 129]

Thanks, like I said FOV is not vitally important. I play at default FOV 70 at aspect ratio 16:9 with 1920x1080 reso fullscreen on my 24" monitor so the best bet is for people to play around with the figures til they find ones that suit their own setup..:)

[pooroldspike 129]

YET MORE FROGMAN TESTS

My vendetta against frogmen continues. I had this brainwave of using an SDV to go look for frogmen and hoping that the hull would protect me against their UW rifle fire.

I'm in the drivers seat, that's the gunners seat on the right, but SDV gunners don't have any weapons.

SDV's are therefore primarily intelligence-gathering recon vessels for spying on enemy shorelines etc through their periscope, or

doing patrols to look for enemy vessels and frogmen.

SDV's can also call in arty, and call in laser guided arty shells and airstrikes with their laser designator.

And if you're in an SDV you can get out anytime to swim ashore.

(Noob note:-only Divers can operate SDV's)

The drivers screen reveals frogmen ahead..

..and so does the gunners screen (note it has a high default magnification)

The bot frogmen spot my SDV and begin shooting at it with UW rifles, the explosions are a mystery, perhaps they're using explosive bullets?..

I drive in among them and they keep pouring fire into the SDV, and within seconds I'm dead.

So my theory that the hull would protect me falls flat (sniffle)

Edited May 28, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

Okay, that was in broad daylight, now lets do it at NIGHT to try out my latest theory; namely I'm hoping that the frogmen won't be able to see me, but that i'll be able to see them with the SDV's NV and IR..

The drivers day screen of course sees nothing. (there's a threequarters moon out giving a tiny amount of light)..

Switching to the drivers NV screen reveals everything..

Likewise, the gunners day screen sees nothing..

Gunners NV screen..

Gunners IR screen..

Gunners orange screen. Maybe orange is just another IR preference mode, I'm not sure..

Groan...the enemy bot frogmen can see me in the dark and start shooting, and I'm kaput within seconds..

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In this next test I'll stand on the quay at night and throw chemlights into the water to see if they'll light up the frogmen so I can start shooting at them and dropping grenades on them.

Before throwing the chemlights the frogmen are completely invisible even though there's moonlight playing on the water. I wouldn't know they're there if I hadn't enabled their floating icons..

I throw in several blue chemlights, they light up the seabed but the frogmen are still almost invisible..

I dive in while the chemlights are still burning and spot them at last but it's done me no good because in an underwater gunfight I won't last 5 seconds..

Edited May 25, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[pooroldspike 129]

Next I try shining a Hummingbird helo's light down into the water but can't see a sausage..

A Blackfoot helo NV also draws a blank..

..and so does the Blackfoot's IR..

Bot frogmen will shoot at enemy boats

..and sinks it. (there was a guy in it, I checked to see if he's floating on the surface but he's vanished)

Bot frogmen won't fire at helos.

It's hovering just above the surface, they point their guns at it but don't fire.

(they're CSAT frogmen and it's a NATO Hummingbird)

So I shoot at it myself and it flies off..

..I surface and see it skedaddling, either hit or chicken..

Edited May 28, 2014 by PoorOldSpike

[kuIoodporny 45]

I've noticed that many players still try to take out helicopters with small arms. It's probably caused by former fragileness of their hitpoints, letting players to use even their pistols as AAA weapons; this has improved over last months. Shooting down military helicopter now requires proper weapons and some skill rather than random firing towards target.

What about testing helicopters against projectile weapons - should be enough to try both gunships, any transport copter and one weapon of each caliber.

Player can damage various parts of helicopter: engines, rotors or their shafts, fuel tank (usually under vehicle's center of mass), in case of gunships also turret guns. Pilots are obviously fragile, but most have protection enough to stop 7.62x51mm rounds.

For inspiration:

(yay for Russian live dummies!)

[pooroldspike 129]

Yeah on page 12 I did some anti-helo tests against a Hummingbird, and the bots quickly shot it down.

Below is a new test, a bot T-100 against a Blackfoot in dawn's early light (to see tracers better).

The T-100 fired its co-axial 7.62 MG and its 12.7 HMG..

..and after taking hits the damaged Blackfoot went into a fast descent and bounced on the ground chased by more tracer..

..then the T-100's 125mm main gun finished it off..