Ukraine General

[.Taffy 10]

i do not know German language, but in our press they wrote , there is article in Suddeutsche Zeitung about that now France is training Russian Navy soldiers

French defence contractors are currently building two new Helicopter Carriers for the Russian Navy, combined worth abut a billion euros. If the article you mention is true the training is probably in relation to that. Future sanctions may put a stop to the whole thing though.

Edited July 25, 2014 by .Taffy

[mistyronin 1181]

That is about something I have never understood, by France is providing military assets to Russia, seeing Putin's attitude.

French defence contractors are currently building two new Helicopter Carriers for the Russian Navy, combined worth abut a billion euros. If the article you mention is true the training is probably in relation to that. Future sanctions may put a stop to the whole thing though.

( Reuters ) UPDATE 1-UK's Cameron questions France's sale of Mistral warships to Russia

( RT ) France to deliver Mistral warship to Russia despite US, UK criticism

( EurActiv ) Hollande: Delivery of second Mistral warship depends on Russia’s ‘attitude’

[beastcat 14]

Another version of what might have happened regarding the shot down plane:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e23_1406177167

The author implies that the plane might have been shot down by the national guard during an excercise.

The amout of typos makes this blog however look quite unreliable. Has anyone found any other sources with that information?

Yeah, the ukrainian military does an excercise in the center of the rebel territory. Makes sense.

The logic concussion to be drawn from The Russian and Ukrianian evidnece is that Malaysian Flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from BUK 213 by Polish ex-mercanaries training Battalion Azov and National Guard fighters paid for by Israeli Oligarch Ihor Valeriyovych Kolomoyskyi.

That was the most retarded thing I have heard in a while. Russians really have to get more creative with their conspiracy theories and work on their english.

I'll do a conspiracy theory just for fun, you can skip it if you want.

The jewish Yatzenjuk stepped down (Interfax said he is a jew), because he knows that his hired blackwater mercenaries (Yes, I know its called Academi) shot down MH-17 flying an SU-34. While all news reported it was an SU-25 that shot down MH-17, it can't be, because the SU-25 has a service ceiling of 7.000m, therefore I concluded it must have been an SU-34, which has a service ceiling of 15.000m. The ukrainian nazi fashists are so nazi, fashist and jewish, that they shot the plane down, so they can blame Russia. It won't achive anything, but they are so unprofessional that they don't know that. It will only take a little bit more time, until Putin finally sees how evil the Ukrainian fashist nazi jews are and he will introduce peace keeping forces, like he did in Georgia and Chechnya. Only when the peace keepers can kill all of the 45 million nazis, the poor opressed russians can live in peace. Oh and it was all a false flag operation by the USA, totally forgot that.

Edited July 25, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

That was the most retarded thing I have heard in a while. Russians really have to get more creative with their conspiracy theories and work on their english.

In fact it's way easier and more simple than that:

The BUK missile that shoot down the airliner was managed by ex-mercenary rabbits paid by the CIA and trained in Poland and Germany and even feed with US carrots, that some NATO spec ops introduced them in Pro-Russian territory and dressed them with monkey costumes and a Russian flag... They even drank vodka!

[beastcat 14]

In fact it's way easier and more simple than that:

The BUK missile that shoot down the airliner was managed by ex-mercenary rabbits paid by the CIA and trained in Poland and Germany and even feed with US carrots, that some NATO spec ops introduced them in Pro-Russian territory and dressed them with monkey costumes and a Russian flag... They even drank vodka!

We really need a dedicated russian conspiracy theory parody thread, this is too funny!

According to this, dutch special force elite KCT GSG9 Speznas SWAT Water seal penguin mercenaries are fighting in Ukraine.

Edited July 25, 2014 by beastcat

[negah 26]

In fact it's way easier and more simple than that:

The BUK missile that shoot down the airliner was managed by ex-mercenary rabbits paid by the CIA and trained in Poland and Germany and even feed with US carrots, that some NATO spec ops introduced them in Pro-Russian territory and dressed them with monkey costumes and a Russian flag... They even drank vodka!

The most logical conclusion would be, dont drink wodka if youre a CIA paid rabbit, you might end up shooting down a civilian plane which will lead to everyone blaming Russia, without any investigations.

About french weapons deal with Russia. France is a huge weapons seller, it would damage their trustworthyness on the market if they wont finish their deals because of political reasons. Many of their customers are from NATO point of view propable candidates for the axis of evil membership and good friends with Russia. And you dont want to lose customers because of some stupid ideals everyone will forget about in 10 years.

Edited July 25, 2014 by negah

[ProfTournesol 956]

That is about something I have never understood, by France is providing military assets to Russia, seeing Putin's attitude.

Well, it's quite easy to understand : those ships were sold very long time before the Ukraine story. Cancelling these would cost France a lot of money (because of very heavy penalties), in a quite depressed economy for my country. What's funny is how Cameron reacted, knowing that : http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-28424395

Anyway, i agree with embargo on weapons and finance, but on an International basis (at least European).

Edited July 25, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[cozza 24]

It was homosexuals trying to blame Russia.

See, Putin was right to ban them. :p

[beastcat 14]

"Two minutes before the Boeing-777 tragedy"

Here they first speak about how crappy of a situation they are in, money and stuff.

In the second part, Purgin speaks about how much of an asshole idiot Strelkov is, when it comes to things other than war and that he is destroying the whole city with his actions, closing all trade, banning all imports and stopping all infrastructure.

Edited July 25, 2014 by beastcat

[.Taffy 10]

That is about something I have never understood, by France is providing military assets to Russia, seeing Putin's attitude.

( Reuters ) UPDATE 1-UK's Cameron questions France's sale of Mistral warships to Russia

( RT ) France to deliver Mistral warship to Russia despite US, UK criticism

( EurActiv ) Hollande: Delivery of second Mistral warship depends on Russia’s ‘attitude’

Cameron has pretty much painted himself into a corner by criticising the French warship sale when it emerges that British defence contractors continue to sell equipment to Russia (including rifles, NVGs etc.) while Russian oligarchs are permitted to continue investing in London (particularly property) and the Tory party receives donations from one Russian (he had fled the country mind) amounting in excess of £250 million. I'm not surprised that the French are somewhat annoyed at his statements.

[nikiforos 450]

According to Strelkov Polish troops may be in E.Ukraine fighting together with the Ukranian army. Hard to believe this although possible if we talk about mercenaries and not about the polish army.

[mistyronin 1181]

What seems clear is that there are no Finns:

( Yle in English ) Azov battalion: ’No Finns in our ranks’

Both the security police and the Foreign Ministry said publicly that they did not know of any Finnish fighters leaving to fight in Ukraine, however.

[surpher 1]

According to Strelkov Polish troops may be in E.Ukraine fighting together with the Ukranian army. Hard to believe this although possible if we talk about mercenaries and not about the polish army.

Spooky posted about them last week.

Some sources claim that yesterday a number of Polish vz.77 Dana SPGs, HQ vehicles and trucks with crews were disembarked in Odessa seaport and then went to Razdelnaya railway station for further transporting.

[beastcat 14]

Igor "Strelkov" Girkin asking for artillery from russia. (I'll try to update this post if an english translation appears)

http://youtu.be/nNjHVmOw21g

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

:p, finally, (you guys) start to see its more than a claim seperatist shot it down, and the BS flying around on the net and in the media is to push public opinion against Russia,while they wont even show a bit off proof only" heard this, seen that"

And for france with those mistral vessels, its a contract that will be completed no matter, and camoron was bitching,but came quicly around to sell uk's weapons and equipment to the russian federation! so no matter what they still go for the money and war makes even more money!

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

@Beastcat; let me guess, a other piece off ukrainian intel;) how you can keep believe that, its mindblowing?! i know you prob are a ukrainian citizen but dont believe Kiev,they dont care about you or the rest only money from the EU,VS so they can fill their pockets like your last president! and those pieces already been proven to be fake and puth together. how about the hundreds they killed in E-Ukraine in a etnic-cleansing style extermination!?

[beastcat 14]

:p, finally, (you guys) start to see its more than a claim seperatist shot it down, and the BS flying around on the net and in the media is to push public opinion against Russia,while they wont even show a bit off proof only" heard this, seen that"

And for france with those mistral vessels, its a contract that will be completed no matter, and camoron was bitching,but came quicly around to sell uk's weapons and equipment to the russian federation! so no matter what they still go for the money and war makes even more money!

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------

@Beastcat; let me guess, a other piece off ukrainian intel;) how you can keep believe that, its mindblowing?! i know you prob are a ukrainian citizen but dont believe Kiev,they dont care about you or the rest only money from the EU,VS so they can fill their pockets like your last president! and those pieces already been proven to be fake and puth together. how about the hundreds they killed in E-Ukraine in a etnic-cleansing style extermination!?

Except for all the evidence we have. We have the exact launch position, the tapped conversations, the shrapnel on the hull, the suspicious behavior of the separatists, videos of the Buk, exact postions et cetera.

Oh and on behalf the the conversations, they have been tapped from the very beginning of the conflict and always turned out to be true. They have first tapped Girkin, when he was still in russia and supplying the separatists, they have tapped all the "peoples governeurs" and so on.

Oh and I prefer living under a government that is fighting against corruption, than under some "Novorosiya", led by Mafiosi and russian agents who are killing and destroying everything they see. Oh and there is no proof for your ethnic-cleansing, exept for desperate claims by moscow. Sure, colateral damage is always present, but the army is not firing grads and mortars randomly into cities like the separatists do. Hell, they even issued an order to forbid artillery in proximity of cities altogether (Of course how many people are going to follow the order is another question, but thats for another time).

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, i disagree with the artillery shelling part. The Ukrainian army did blindly shell civilians. On purpose or by mistake, nobody knows.

Edited July 25, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[PuFu 4600]

http://time.com/3028057/in-russia-crime-without-punishment/

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

Beastcat,i suggest you do your own research insted off believing kiev, the killing's and displacements are ethnic cleansing nothing else! everybody have to suffer for supporting Russia and they are labelled "terrorists" while they want peace and nothing to do with the EU or the west or kiev, but wat do they get; suffering and the loss off friends and relatives,not to mention their houses! dont know how you call it it but i call it ethnic cleansing!

[maturin 12]

Well, if you knew what words like ethnic cleansing meant, maybe you would know what to call it.

[beastcat 14]

Well, i disagree with the artillery shelling part. The Ukrainian army did blindly shell civilians. On purpose or by mistake, nobody knows.

Yes, I do not deny that civilians died due to the artillery of the army, however, the army did not deliberately shoot at civilians. It is no secret that the separatists fire from civilian areas and use them as cover. Even RT did a video when the Vostok Batallion first marched into Lugansk from Russia where you could see that they were shooting from residential areas and from residential buildings at border guards and later hid inside residential buildings in order to avoid fire from the air. It is also no secret that the Ukrainian army is in a poor condition and poorly trained, since Ukraine was never at war and most of the infrantry consists of volunteers who have little to no experience in the army, making it much harder to be precise, but at the moment the civilian per separatist death toll is much lower than in Israel, where they have high tech rockets and extremely tiny in comparison to what the russians did in Chechnya.

Edited July 25, 2014 by beastcat

[spooky lynx 73]

Meanwhile in Interpol...

[lesscubes 1]

Considering how many Rebel leaders are actually Russians, from Russia proper, and how the Armor and specialist weapons are from Russia not Ukraine, it's pretty hard to buy that line of reasoning Spoetnik. And, you know, once you take into consideration that the Russian Federation gleefully took advantage of the situation to dismember Crimea from Ukraine then the pro-Russian argument really rings hollow.

Once you START a war, you can expect casualties. Accidents happen. Negligence happens. Basic contempt of human life happens. "WODKA! OPPPPAAA!" happens. And innocent people die. If they wanted peace, then grabbing an AK and making war wasn't the way to do it. If they want their version of "Freedom" (Russian domination and corruption instead of Ukrainian) then they'll have to fight for it, and pay in blood.

The current pro-EU government in Kiev may be as corrupt as the former pro-Moscow government. I don't know and it's irrelevant. The overwhelming, overriding issue here is that the Russian Federation is doing everything within it's powers to encourage unrest, arm, train and provide leaders to separatists in her former Republics as they drift away from Moscow and towards the West. This is about spheres of influence and buffer zones, NOT any human decency.

[Sgt.Spoetnik 10]

alright,keep blaming Russia, while supporting a criminal regime then, and i DO know what ive said and point at,you wanna wait till it is real? but keeping your eyes closed so you wont see it , but it dont make it fake or truth for that matter, but you believe anything the press and your beloved leaders tell you and you swallow it with hook,bait and floater.

and no Russia isnt better or right or anything, just as bad like those western politicians, and innocent ppl die every day for ignorance and greed by those greedy fuckers.

and we can keep bitching but nothing will happen! only their pockets will be filled more and on the back and blood of the innocent!

[beastcat 14]

Meanwhile in Interpol...

1) Public incitement to terrorist activities involving the use of mass media;

2) Public incitement to extremist activities involving the use of mass media

What an evil evil guy. How dares he say Russia sucks?

No, but seriously, he is just a ultranationalist who lives in a parallel universe inside of his head.

Edit: I also love how Russia wants to put him in jail for things he said in Ukraine.

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------

The current pro-EU government in Kiev may be as corrupt as the former pro-Moscow government. I don't know and it's irrelevant. The overwhelming, overriding issue here is that the Russian Federation is doing everything within it's powers to encourage unrest, arm, train and provide leaders to separatists in her former Republics as they drift away from Moscow and towards the West. This is about spheres of influence and buffer zones, NOT any human decency.

The most corrupt parties were the party of regions and the communist party. Seeing how the first one fell apart and the second one has been thown out, that should be a pointer about the current corruption. But I doubt that the government will allow things to fall back as they were, because they can't afford a second Maidan.