Ukraine General

[vilas 473]

i know that people who say about invading other countries like Zhyrinovsky have dozens percent votes, it means dozens percent of voters in Russia deny right to existence of many countries,

plus commies who praise Stalin - another group who support WW2 crimes (Stalin cooperated with Hitler in 30s)

plus imperialists from Putin and anexation of other country land is unfrogiven stuff, because next day Russia may come for Lithuanian, Latvian, Estonian, Naddnestrian or other country piece of land,

other countries MUST organize defence together and it is not attack on Russia, but it is defence against imperialism of Russia

if Russia would not behave such imperial way (as sticking finger in what defence systems Poland can have), we would be sitting and blaming US for Iraq and Vietnam,

in case of slavery in Africa noone argues about freedom of Africans, but Russia, China, USA , EU (corporations) etc. argue who will cheat slaves, so they do not say about freedom but about who will suck blood,

in Russia democratic parties get 1% of votes - this says why others must care about self defence,

noone afraid of attack from Sweden, France, UK, everyone here afraids of Russian attack , so everyone wants more NATO forces here and more troops and better defence systems against rockets which some mad Zhyrinovsky-like or communist loving Stalin may launch from Russia ,

Putin would be hero for us if he was JUST focusing on his own territory without sending troops, tanks to other countries, without anexation of other country territory , without "green men", without telling what neigboring countries can do

[mistyronin 1181]

Ukraine was one of Russia's colony-puppets after the fall of the Soviet Union. As Russia was weak they moved towards independence, specially after seeing how life could be with better equal partners instead of the big neighbor bully.

Obviously Putin didn't like at all the possibility of losing one of its slaves-states, so he invaded part of it and created havoc in the rest of it.

All these nationalist movements in Ukraine have grown because of the Russian invasion, not otherwise.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Ukraine was one of Russia's colony-puppets after the fall of the Soviet Union. As Russia was weak they moved towards independence, specially after seeing how life could be with better equal partners instead of the big neighbor bully.

Obviously Putin didn't like at all the possibility of losing one of its slaves-states, so he invaded part of it and created havoc in the rest of it.

All these nationalist movements in Ukraine have grown because of the Russian invasion, not otherwise.

That's not true either. Russia's motive wasn't to bully and enslave. It was to ensure it's survival as a world superpower in the face of expanding NATO, especially after being characterized as a "regional power" and not superpower. It could not stand NATO moving so close to it, and it supported the rebels, so that they could create a buffer zone in Donbass. This was all after losing an ally (Syria) which was fighting against US backed rebels. It's for the same reason that Georgia was invaded.

Plus there was an overthrow of the legally elected president that half of Ukraine supported. Then there's the fact that Crimea was artificially joined to Ukraine, and it never really was a part of Ukraine in the first place.

Edited April 18, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

That's not true either. Russia's motive wasn't to bully and enslave. It was to ensure it's survival as a world superpower in the face of expanding NATO, especially after being characterized as a "regional power" and not superpower.

Russia has already NATO in the front door because of being a bully during USSR times (the Baltics and Poland joined NATO to prevent a Russian attack).

So what Russia wanted to "secure" in Ukraine was the strategic geographic positions and part of the resources that they had been stealing for dozens of years.

It could not stand NATO moving so close to it, and it supported the rebels, so that they could create a buffer zone in Donbass.

Russia didn't supported the rebels, but created them. There was no violence before Russia created it. Do you remember Igor Strelkov's words on the matter right?

(The Moscow Times) Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

[aleksadragutin 9]

Russia has already NATO in the front door because of being a bully during USSR times (the Baltics and Poland joined NATO to prevent a Russian attack).

So what Russia wanted to "secure" in Ukraine was the strategic geographic positions and part of the resources that they had been stealing for dozens of years.

Russia didn't supported the rebels, but created them. There was no violence before Russia created it. Do you remember Igor Strelkov's words on the matter right?

(The Moscow Times) Russia's Igor Strelkov: I Am Responsible for War in Eastern Ukraine

That's a conspiracy theory. It would be impossible to create a whole war with thousands of rebels out of thin air if there was no basis to support it. That means that Donbass sentiment was already anti Ukrainian. Plus Russian spetznaz was a story created by Ukraine to justify it's failure to contain the situation.

Now Poland isn't bordering Russia, and would you compare the size of Latvia + Estonia borders to the Ukrainian border with Russia. Off course the geographic position of Crimea plays a huge part as well.

Edited April 18, 2015 by aleksadragutin

[Tonci87 163]

That's a conspiracy theory. It would be impossible to create a whole war with thousands of rebels out of thin air if there was no basis to support it. That means that Donbass sentiment was already anti Ukrainian.

Now Poland isn't bordering Russia, and would you compare the size of Latvia + Estonia borders to the Ukrainian border with Russia. Off course the geographic position of Crimea plays a huge part as well.

That is not a conspiracy theory, he himself said it. Of course there was some kind of sentiment vs the Kiew government, the Russian press/propaganda took care of that, for example by creating the fantasy that Kiew is full of Nazis.

Quick geography lesson, Poland does border on Russia. You´re welcome.

[aleksadragutin 9]

That is not a conspiracy theory, he himself said it. Of course there was some kind of sentiment vs the Kiew government, the Russian press/propaganda took care of that, for example by creating the fantasy that Kiew is full of Nazis.

Quick geography lesson, Poland does border on Russia. You´re welcome.

Poland borders Belarus. You're free to look it up. If you mean the Russian enclave, it's insignificant to this discussion.

[Tonci87 163]

Poland borders Belarus. You're free to look it up.

And Russia, please do look it up. /(This is funny)

[aleksadragutin 9]

And Russia, please do look it up. /(This is funny)

Yes I'm sure Kaliningrad is a vital target for NATO to once and for all deal with Russia.

[Tonci87 163]

Yes I'm sure Kaliningrad is a vital target for NATO to once and for all deal with Russia.

Well, it is a part of Russia :D

[aleksadragutin 9]

Well, it is a part of Russia :D

Then you haven't red my posts.

[mistyronin 1181]

That's a conspiracy theory. It would be impossible to create a whole war with thousands of rebels out of thin air if there was no basis to support it. That means that Donbass sentiment was already anti Ukrainian.

So Russian FSB officers confess it publicly, and that makes you consider it a conspiracy theory? :rolleyes:

Now Poland isn't bordering Russia, and would you compare the size of Latvia + Estonia borders to the Ukrainian border with Russia. Off course the geographic position of Crimea plays a huge part as well.

As Tonci already told you, yes. Poland and Russia share borders. And it wouldn't be the first time an imperialist country like Putin's Russia invade Poland through Königsberg / Prussia... Third Reich and so on... (besides the obvious fact that Belarus is one of the few remaining puppets of the Kremlin).

And from Prussia Russia can send from armor units to ballistic missiles to any part of Poland.

Edited April 18, 2015 by MistyRonin

[vilas 473]

Now Poland isn't bordering Russia

and Stalin never murdered milions of people

yeaa, this is level of knowledge about not only history but geography

really - basic knowledge from geography

Kaliningrad Oblast is part of RUssia and Russia put there Iskander launchers targeted at my city telling we cannot have anti-missile system

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[astral4eg 10]

Ukraine was one of Russia's colony-puppets after the fall of the Soviet Union. As Russia was weak they moved towards independence, specially after seeing how life could be with better equal partners instead of the big neighbor bully.

note: Ukraine in general was created by Russia

Obviously Putin didn't like at all the possibility of losing one of its slaves-states, so he invaded part of it and created havoc in the rest of it.

not quite right, Putin doesn't want NATO appeared at the borders with Russia

All these nationalist movements in Ukraine have grown because of the Russian invasion, not otherwise.

Unfortunately nationalism in Ukraine was long before military action, just with the advent of the new government he became a legitimate

[vilas 473]

Unfortunately nationalism in Ukraine was long before military action

if you not know history - it is first time Ukraine is independent after several centuries of Russian occupation, Ukraine NEVER before was independent, since XVIII century Russian Empire, USSR occupied it

not quite right, Putin doesn't want NATO appeared at the borders with Russia

so it is imperialism if he wants do decide what Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Poles, Ukrainians Finss do

if Russia borders with 20 countries does it mean they can decide about 20 countries politics? wtf?

RUSSIA DOESNT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO DECIDE ABOUT WHAT BORDERING COUNTRIES DO

IS IT CLEAR ?

if Putler doesn't want bordering countries join nato - let he fuckin emigrate to Mars or Jupiter with all Russian nationalists

my country borders with Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia , Finland, Ukraine - all those countries can decide what they want

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[Sub-Human 10]

That's a conspiracy theory. It would be impossible to create a whole war with thousands of rebels out of thin air if there was no basis to support it

Motorolla, one of DNR commanders, was a car washer, his wife was a prostitute. Imagine this: in your previous life you work for minimum wage, act as a slave for the richer and more successful people. Now you can take a gun, rob the local bank (it did happen, and still does: Ukraine pulled trucks of money from Donbass, but the terrorists put up roadblocks, took the trucks for themselves), steal the same car you were washing a few days ago. Kill and kidnap whoever you want, there's no journalists to see it. Would you go back to your previous self after this? You would really fight for a boring, poor life?

Similar to events of 1917. A group of bandits took power with weapons and gave themselves the ultimate rule in the country. All under the name of 'the people' and 'freedom from oppression'. Except this time it was catalyzed by Russian FSB and army intelligence.

[astral4eg 10]

if you not know history - it is first time Ukraine is independent after several centuries of Russian occupation, Ukraine NEVER before was independent, since XVIII century Russian Empire, USSR occupied it

especially for you without spoiler.

Ukraine in general created by Russian Empire and the Soviet Union.

The name Ukraine comes from ancient Russian Okraina (outskirts or edge of state)

so it is imperialism if he wants do decide what Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, Poles, Ukrainians Finss do

if Russia borders with 20 countries does it mean they can decide about 20 countries politics? wtf?

In these countries not pass marches and demonstrations calling for cut and hang Russian (it before military action), and after the coup things got worse.

RUSSIA DOESNT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO DECIDE ABOUT WHAT BORDERING COUNTRIES DO

IS IT CLEAR ?

And who has the right US?

if Putler doesn't want bordering countries join nato - let he fuckin emigrate to Mars or Jupiter with all Russian nationalists

my country borders with Russia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia , Finland, Ukraine - all those countries can decide what they want

as already mentioned above - World is not just black and white, a world "little" more complicated

[mistyronin 1181]

note: Ukraine in general was created by Russia

So? I said that Ukraine was one of Russia's colony-puppets. European Powers created most of the World countries, firstly as colonies. Spain: Mexico, Argentina, Colombia, etc.; Belgium: Congo; British Empire: India, Australia, Canada, USA, etc.

That changes nothing. Is like if UK forced Australia to obey all their commands, just because they created the country... Or Spain wanted Argentina to obey everything... You know independence changes everything... :j:

not quite right, Putin doesn't want NATO appeared at the borders with Russia

It's not on his hand to decide which alliance the other countries pledge to. He can only decide for Russia.

Unfortunately nationalism in Ukraine was long before military action, just with the advent of the new government he became a legitimate

Read again my sentence. I haven't said that nationalism in Ukraine is a new thing, but that has skyrocket since the Russian Invasion. So yeah, Putin is the main instigator of the bloom of nationalism in Ukraine; he knew it when he planned to invade Crimea.

In fact, Putin wanted to destabilize Ukraine.

Edited April 18, 2015 by MistyRonin

[Dwarden 1124]

Poland borders Belarus. You're free to look it up. If you mean the Russian enclave, it's insignificant to this discussion.

you mea that 'insignificant' enclave with tens thousands attack ready troops, ships, planes and Iskander missiles with nuclear warhead ...

ye i guess it' good to have such enclave(s) so close to many EU member capitals

[vilas 473]

In these countries not pass marches and demonstrations calling for cut and hang Russian (it before military action), and after the coup things got worse.

in Russia Zhyrinovsky has over dozen votes for parliament, he is co-chariman of parliament

and what he says ? to send other nations to space, to invade Finland, to nuke Poland etc.

in Ukraine UPA has few percent, not 15%

[astral4eg 10]

in Russia Zhyrinovsky has over dozen votes for parliament, he is co-chariman of parliament

and what he says ? to send other nations to space, to invade Finland, to nuke Poland etc.

in Ukraine UPA has few percent, not 15%

yes, Zhirinovsky crazy, but sometimes he

[Tonci87 163]

yes, Zhirinovsky crazy, but sometimes he

Oh so he believes that Nazis ae ruling Ukraine, reeaaaallly interesting FPDR

[Dwarden 1124]

remember one evil spawned another evil (talking about Bolshevik vs Fascism / National Socialism)

in fact for decade they were big friends and for short time even allies ...

until they got tired of conquering neutral or friendly nations and start to plan invasion of the other ones

and it's fate any evil or corrupt empire ends, question is only on what cost in lives

[vilas 473]

in 30s USSR cooperated with Third Reich and build their military power, cause after WW1 Germany had forbidden to have army - so they constructed and tested tanks on USSR fields about which Polish Intel was telling in 30s

Third Reich attacked other nations in 1938, 1939, 1940

but without help of Stalin's USSR , Third Reich would not make progress in tanks, airplanes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Soviet_Union_relations_before_1941

significant to say is that Sweden exported steel for Hitler too

so it is just Soviet propaganda that they fought with Hitler , yes, they fought ... from June 1941

before 1941 it was different, Czechoslovakia was attacked in 1938, Poland in 1939, France and Benelux 1940, and there was cooperation between Third Reich and USSR which later build their education on "fight with nazis"

Edited April 18, 2015 by vilas

[jakerod 254]

Another new Dispatch is out (105). Can't link to it again.