Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

Understood you Misty. Sry.

No problem! We all missread stuff :) I truly appreciate reading your point of view and comment with you the news about Ukraine ( even if it seems to be so far away from my point of view ).

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( RT ) Lavrov: Kiev issued 'criminal order' allowing use of weapons against civilians

The coup-appointed Kiev government’s order to use force against Ukrainian citizens is “criminal,†the Russian Foreign Minister told RT. He also denied claims that there is Russian military presence on Ukrainian territory.

In an interview with RT’s Sophie Shevardnadze, Sergey Lavrov called acting Ukrainian President Alexander Turchinov’s order to reinitiate an anti-terror operation in East Ukraine, a criminal act. [...]

Describing a worst case scenario in the Ukrainian crisis, Lavrov said Russia would be forced to respond if it were attacked.

“If we are attacked, we would certainly respond. If our interests, our legitimate interests, the interests of Russians have been attacked directly, like they were in South Ossetia for example, I do not see any other way but to respond in accordance with international law,†he said.

“Russian citizens being attacked is an attack against the Russian Federation,†he told RT.

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 20:20 ----------

The kidnapping situations by pro-Russian rebels is turning quite awful:

( The Guardian ) Kidnapping of Ukrainian patriots has Russia's full support, says Kiev

The situation in Slavyansk, the separatists' fortified capital, appears to be one of gun rule. Pro-Russian militias continue to hold an American journalist, Simon Ostrovsky, taken hostage early on Tuesday, as well as several Ukrainian reporters including Irma Krat. The gunmen have threatened western correspondents, evicted Roma families from their homes and apparently imprisoned the local mayor.

In the past week, 16 people have been kidnapped in Slavyansk and Gorlovka, and two murdered, including Rybak. Rybak was a deputy for the Batkivshchyna party of Ukraine's acting president, Olexsander Turchynov, who announced on Tuesday that Kiev would now restart military operations against pro-Russian separatists in the east. The body of a second party supporter, unidentified, was found near Rybak's. Both had been tortured to death, Turchynov said.

"The terrorists who effectively took the whole Donetsk region hostage have now gone too far, by starting to torture and murder Ukrainian patriots. These crimes are being committed with the full support and connivance of the Russian Federation," he said on Tuesday.

Specifically about Simon Ostrovsky ( the Vice News journalist ):

( The Guardian ) US journalist Simon Ostrovsky held by pro-Russian militia in Ukraine

Pro-Russian gunmen in Ukraine confirmed on Wednesday that they had taken hostage an American journalist, whom they were holding according to "war rules", they said, in the town of Slavyansk. [...]

Stella Khorosheva, a spokeswoman for the pro-Russian insurgents, said on Wednesday that Ostrovsky was being held at the local branch of the rebel-occupied Ukrainian security service. Separatists have blockaded access to the building with a large wall of tyres and debris. Outsiders are not admitted.

"He's with us. He's fine," Khorosheva told the Associated Press on Wednesday. Asked why Ostrovsky was being held hostage, she said he was "suspected of bad activities". She did not elaborate but said the insurgents were now conducting their own investigation.

Khorosheva later told journalists that Ostrovsky was suspected of spying for Right Sector, a far-right Ukrainian nationalist party, or other possible "enemy groups".

Since an apparent shoot-out at a Slavyansk checkpoint on Sunday left three dead, the separatists have become increasingly aggressive. They have harassed western journalists turning up at checkpoints into the city.

Edited April 23, 2014 by MistyRonin
shortened quotes to avoid taking much space

[jeza 5415]

Cheeky buggers!

RAF Jet Chases Russian Planes Away From UK

Two Russian planes are turned back as they approach Scotland, with jets from the Netherlands and Denmark also scrambled. The aircraft, believed to be Tupolev 95s, were spotted off the coast of northeast Scotland.

http://news.sky.com/story/1247985/raf-jet-chases-russian-planes-away-from-uk

[ProfTournesol 956]

They were heading to LondonGrad ;)

[mistyronin 1181]

http://news.sky.com/story/1247985/raf-jet-chases-russian-planes-away-from-uk

From your link:

A spokesman for the Ministry of Defence said: "The Russian military aircraft remained in international airspace at all times and they are perfectly entitled to do so.

"Russian military flights have never entered UK sovereign airspace without authorisation."

[jeza 5415]

They were heading to LondonGrad ;)

:butbut:

From your link:

How come eu chaps scrambled jets, or are the russians telling porkies?

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) RAF fighter jets intercept Russian bombers off coast of Scotland

RAF fighter jets were scrambled on Wednesday afternoon to head off two Russian bombers heading for British airspace.

The Typhoons, based at Leuchars in Fife, intercepted the two Tupolev Tu-95s off the north coast of Scotland.

The incident is not regarded as being related to the Ukraine crisis but a relatively routine one. Russian military planes test British responses every few months.

A Ministry of Defence spokesman said the planes could not be identified and so the Typhoons were launched.

"The aircraft were subsequently identified as Russian military aircraft. The Russian military aircraft remained in international airspace at all times as they are perfectly entitled to do so. Russian military flights have never entered UK sovereign airspace without authorisation," he said.

[jeza 5415]

ohhh I see. Thanks for the share.

[mistyronin 1181]

It seems that were not only british fighters the ones that scrambled after those bombers:

( TIME ) Dutch Scramble Jets After Russian Bombers Approach

The Dutch defense department says several NATO member countries scrambled jets Wednesday afternoon after a pair of Russian bomber planes approached their airspace over the North Sea.

The Dutch ministry identified the planes as two Russian TU-95 Bears, and said it had launched two F-16s from Volkel air force base to intercept them. The Russian jets were escorted by aircraft from the Netherlands, Britain and Denmark until they departed.

Maj. Wilko Ter Horst said “that’s why we scrambled, that’s why the Danish scrambled and the English scrambled, to ensure they fly out of our air space.â€

( that seems to contradict the UK version of the events, anyway he seems to also pointed out like his British mate that such incidents have occurred before )

Edited April 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Beagle 684]

Thats nothing new. The russians started the old cold war Tu-95 game a few years ago. It's their way to get newest NATO radar signal data for their RWR.

[arttem 1]

93 separate mechanized brigade.

In few words. Guys with weapons telling them go back to tents! You wanna problems? Go back to tents!

My notice. Guy with Kalashnikov have a t-shirt with red stripes. It can say that he is from special forces. Ukraines using the same traditions from Russians. So he can be from internal SF (police SF).

P.S. Man who was shooting in the earth - it's a Putin in makeup and guy with red stripes t-shirt is his father. Nuff said.

P.S.S. I'm always wonder, where is OBSE? When such things happens.

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Wooooow. And here comes reaction from Ukraine. :)

The military explained that it was training in SF.

http://ru.tsn.ua/ukrayina/minoborony-utverzhdaet-chto-mobilizovannye-voennoobyazannye-ne-buntuyut-362315.html

The military leadership denies information about the riot, which allegedly occurred among mobilized for military service in 93 separate mechanized brigade.

In official comments of the Ministry of defense said - that actually, it's not rebellion on the video, just exercises of Special forces with practicing counter measures against separatists during mass actions. For reliability, the majority of military personnel did not know about exercise.

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(Time) Exclusive: Meet the Pro-Russian Separatists of Eastern Ukraine

http://time.com/74405/exclusive-pro-russian-separatists-eastern-ukraine/

Spend a few days riding around the separatist badlands of eastern Ukraine, and you’d have a good chance of running into Alexander Mozhaev, the fighter suspected of being a Russian government operative.

His beard, which juts out of his face like a spade, has made him something of a mascot for the local separatists. Perhaps aptly, Mozhaev’s nickname among them is Babay, the Russian word for bogeyman, which is exactly what the Ukrainian government has tried to make him.

But Mozhaev, a mild-mannered fighter with a chest like a barrel, says he only wishes that were true, and so do many of the people in the separatist-controlled towns that dot this region. If Russian forces had indeed taken over eastern Ukraine, as they did in Crimea last month, the streets of the separatist stronghold of Slavyansk would probably not be nearly as lawless as they have become in recent days.

Though he would have liked to have served in the Russian special forces, he says his service was in the regular Russian army, and it ended in the mid-1990s, when he attained the rank of staff sergeant. His reasons for coming to Ukraine in March had a bit to do with Russian nationalism, but more to do with adventurism, and even more to do with his apparently being a fugitive from Russian law. Earlier this year, Mozhaev said, just as a revolution was forcing Ukraine’s old regime from power, he was charged in Krasnodar (Russia) with a violent crime — which he described as “threatening to kill someone with a knife.†When he failed to come up with the bribe money for the corrupt officials who he says fabricated the charges, Mozhaev was put on a national wanted list in Russia and went on the run, according to his account, which could not be verified.

For his part, Mozhaev hopes that help is indeed on its way from Moscow. “Russians don’t leave Russians in the lurch,†he says.

P.S. Yes, we are not leaving our people. (Crimea) But not false cossacks and other adventure mans. (East part of Ukraine)

P.S.S. Thats why, i was asking: - how you people indentify cossacks? But ok, i have an answer now.

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Just 3427 Crimeans decided to refuse the Russian citizenship.

(RIA) http://ria.ru/society/20140422/1004990073.html#ixzz2zmW5mw5p

"We received 3427 statements about refusing Russian citizenship. I think that this figure is final," Kalyuzhny said. According to him, the timing of abandonment of Russian citizenship, would not be renewed, as it is not stipulated by law. Therefore, all who wanted to keep the citizenship of Ukraine, had to submit an application to 18 April.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[ProfTournesol 956]

Is Ukrainian army finally doing something else than gesticulations ?

(BBC news) "The Ukrainian government says it has regained control of the city hall in the eastern port of Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27138300

[arttem 1]

So, something is coming. Russian media full of info. I'm waiting for west media news.

http://youtu.be/rx6RKV0nhfg

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Update to my previous post about Ukrainian "SF exercises".

http://youtu.be/oEiyQB5Dcj0

It's hard to translate. :) :) Only obscene words there.

[mistyronin 1181]

ArtTem could you give us some links about that videos, please, even if they are in Russian, seems something interesting.

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( RIA Novosti ) Kiev Resumes Special Operation in Slaviansk, Deaths Reported

A gunfight has broken out near the eastern Ukrainian city of Slaviansk between unidentified gunmen and forces from the local people’s militia, the activists’ headquarters told RIA Novosti Thursday.

Edited April 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[ProfTournesol 956]

(BBC news) "Commandos have moved on the separatist stronghold of Sloviansk in eastern Ukraine days after a new "anti-terrorist" operation was announced. "

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27138300

[arttem 1]

ArtTem could you give us some links about that videos, please, even if they are in Russian, seems something interesting.

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( RIA Novosti ) Kiev Resumes Special Operation in Slaviansk, Deaths Reported

It seems you know Russian a little bit. :)

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Lavrov now in live telling funny thing.

"If you seen from TV. Did you notice that Bayden was seating in the Head of State place and Kiev heads (all goverment) was by sides?" - Lavrov. (48:45 in live video)

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One of the checkpoints in Slavyansk. Today.

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Vladimir Putin: If the authorities in Kyiv have used the army against the people, that's junta.

(RT) http://russian.rt.com/article/29167

"If indeed the current regime in Kiev began to use the army against the population inside the country, it is without any doubt a very serious crime against their own people. I remind you that even legitimate President of Ukraine V.F. Yanukovych decided not to apply the army in the conflict in Kyiv. <...> If the current government in Kiev did this, this of course - the junta already. They do not have a national mandate, they at best have only some elements of legitimacy, in the framework of the Parliament", - stated the President

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Slavyansk.

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BTR's moving to Slavyansk.

http://youtu.be/Drlq3CeJR78

Edited April 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's funny. I would like to see what would happen in Russia if armed people were holding public buildings and checkpoints against their governement.

[Tonci87 163]

That's funny. I would like to see what would happen in Russia if armed people were holding public buildings and checkpoints against their governement.

Just take a look at Chechnya, then you know.

[arttem 1]

American troops arrived in Poland. 24.04.2014.

http://youtu.be/Lr_1Dh_oUTw

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Update to my previous post about Ukrainian "SF exercises".

http://youtu.be/G7_EG5AJ2BE

Hard to translate. Many voices. Too many obscene words.

Stream: "Whom you defend?", "Right Sector - gays!", "Remove you mask, show us you face!", "Hey colonel! Who give you a right to shoot us?" and bla bla bla bla....

__________________________________________________ _________________________________

Another interview with Lavrov on english.

Edited April 24, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

From RT Live:

Thursday, April 24

11:19 GMT:

A source in Ukraine’s Joint General Staff has told RIA Novosti that the operation against Slavyansk has been planned by the country’s Security Service, the SBU, and that Interior Minister Arsen Avakov is no longer responsible for the operation.

The groups storming Slavyansk consist of approximately 5,000 militants of the far-right nationalist Right Sector movement, either acting on their own as terror groups or operating as National Guards, the source said. These groups are being supplied with NATO intelligence and aerial photos of the region. The data is being delivered by couriers to avoid interception.

Kiev is not planning to deploy regular troops into the mutinous regions, as the soldiers have been refusing to fight against their own people. The SBU has also deployed up to 500 troops from special forces groups to the area, the source said.

IMO the bolded part is just ridiculous. It has already been stated, and photos are proof that the ones that Ukraine Gov sent were SBU commandos, special forces of the army and paratroopers.

[exe_74rus 1]

That's funny. I would like to see what would happen in Russia if armed people were holding public buildings and checkpoints against their governement.

Once liberals with fascists , try to arrange Maidan in Moscow, they break your neck . Directly and figuratively. Immediately , death is mercilessly. Russian rebels know it, and never do suicide.

The Russian Government has sufficient popular support. And think about the use of force will not be the Kremlin .

Russian have said many times and will say the U.S. thanks for the coup Kiev. Porat 5 billion dollars to the Crimea to Russia . Moscow 's time to reward the agent under the pseudonym "sunburnt" and hand him the Star of the Hero . ( the highest order of the Russian Federation) , in a special operation brilliantly . :)

As for Ukraine , do not worry . This is our old province, accidentally became a country . How to manage a multinational state Kiev did not explain , and he failed. Misspent spending Soviet heritage , disorganized army , not nurtured nationally oriented elite , dropping the power thieves , Ukrainians have signed the death sentence of his country. Themselves have signed it and resulted in the execution . You and I can only watch the agony .

[Tonci87 163]

From RT Live:

IMO the bolded part is just ridiculous. It has already been stated, and photos are proof that the ones that Ukraine Gov sent were SBU commandos, special forces of the army and paratroopers.

Completely ridiculous.....

[ProfTournesol 956]

IMO the bolded part is just ridiculous. It has already been stated, and photos are proof that the ones that Ukraine Gov sent were SBU commandos, special forces of the army and paratroopers.

Indeed. But RT isn't a reliable source, is it ?

[mistyronin 1181]

Indeed. But RT isn't a reliable source, is it ?

IMO nope as it's payed by the Kremlin to be a propaganda tool ( literally and officially), but usually they refrain of such hyperbolic exaggerations.

[exe_74rus 1]

Indeed. But RT isn't a reliable source, is it ?

Not more than other media.

All receive funding, everyone knows that the boss wants you to do.

[sudayev 27]

What's up with Vice News reporter Simon Ostrovski, has he been released?