Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

The OSCE - Examples of (SMM) Patrolling missions

Latest from OSCE Special Monitoring Mission (SMM) to Ukraine based on information received as of 18:00 (Kyiv time), 7 September 2014

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/123299

Interesting link. Appreciated :)

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, honeslty, i'm reading those OSCE reports quite often but they are absolutely useless. They never report anything interesting, despite all that happens in the area.

[oxmox 73]

Another interesting one with more details about the Checkpoint control....

OSCE report - Checkpoint (boarder control) - Gukovo and Donetsk

Weekly update from the OSCE Observer Mission at the Russian Checkpoints Gukovo and Donetsk, 28 August until 08:00, 3 September 2014

http://www.osce.org/om/123151

Edited September 8, 2014 by oxmox

[jakerod 254]

Ukraine prisoners of war released under Minsk ceasefire agreement (CNN)

My apologies if that was already posted. I don't recall seeing it though.

[surpher 1]

(BBC) MH17 disaster: Russians 'controlled BUK missile system'

BBC Panorama: Putin's Gamble - BBC iPlayer

[beastcat 14]

[mistyronin 1181]

Amazing piece of news, but... "no evidence of technical or human error"

( BBC ) MH17 crash: Dutch experts say numerous objects hit plane

( The Guardian ) MH17: Dutch investigators point to 'external cause' of the crash - live updates

The fact that there were many pieces of aircraft structure distributed over large

area indicated that the aircraft broke up in the air #MH17

Damage was consistent with damage that would be expected from large number

of high-energy objects that penetrated the aircraft from outside.

#MH17 report. Cockpit voice recording ended at 13.20.03 hrs. No indication there was anything abnormal with the flight

#MH17 report Cockpit Voice Recorder audio ended abruptly. No aural warnings or alerts of malfunctions

Edited September 9, 2014 by MistyRonin

[surpher 1]

Link to the report on Scribd, offical link seems busy.

MH17 Dutch Safety Board Preliminary Report

[ProfTournesol 956]

So the plane was shot down. Amazing news, indeed :rolleyes: But at least, those schrapnels indicate it was shot down from the ground, so the wonderful theory saying it was shot down by an Ukrainian plane just vanished.

Edited September 9, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[surpher 1]

From page 25 of the report.

Puncture holes identified in images of the cockpit floor suggested that small objects entered from above the level of the cockpit floor.

[Tonci87 163]

It also seems as if the aircraft completely broke apart after the impact wich points to a large AA missile like it is fired from the BUK. A wingmounted AA missile that was fired from a plane wouldn´t have been able to do such catastrophic immediate damage.

Also it looks as if the missile exploded directly in front and above the plane, again something wich isn´t characteristic for a fighter launched missile, but very characteristic for a surface AA system shooting at an incoming plane.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Tonci87

[ProfTournesol 956]

This picture is quite clear :

[beastcat 14]

DELFI - Russia reopens criminal cases against Lithuanians who refused to serve in Soviet army

HD Version

Edited September 9, 2014 by beastcat

[oxmox 73]

Besides the new report about the flight MH17 and the purpose to send again experts to the wrackage to investigate the case - what about journalists investigate "russian troops" on the seperatists side ?

I did read in the Donbass area are several hundred journalists, recently in a short report in the german TV the journalist were talking about that only 10km away russian troops are located.

Wouldnt be the current cease fire a chance for more journalists to visit the seperatist fighters and to report about what is going on ?

The cease fire currently is shaky but overall it holds, now is the chance for main media journalism to report from both sides.

Edited September 9, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

Besides the new report about the flight MH17 and the purpose to send again experts to the wrackage to investigate the case - what about journalists investigate "russian troops" on the seperatists side ?

I did read alone in Donetsk are several hundred worldwide journalists, recently in a short report in the german TV the journalist were talking about that only 10km away russian troops are located.

Wouldnt be the current cease fire a chance for more main media journalists to visit the seperatist fighters and to report about what is going on ?

The cease fire currently is shaky but overall it holds, now is the chance for journalism to report from both sides.

Cease-fire or not, the separatists will still shoot everything that moves. They only let some selected russian journalists close and have demonstrated time and time again that they are not keen on having others around.

As for russian soldiers at the border, there are around 40.000 soldiers stationed at the eastern border, according to the last numbers I have seen (From Ukrainian media). They are not there to necessarily invade, but to loose some soldiers, weapons, tanks, btrs and missile systems here and there.

I don't know how many are at the Crimean border, but they constantly fly UAVs from there.

As for how many soldiers are inside Ukraine, NATO said some time ago that there are at least 1000 russian soldiers in Ukraine (If I recall correctly).

[ProfTournesol 956]

What is the regular Ukrainian army doing ? We only see volunteers batallions fighting in the East.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Cease-fire or not, the separatists will still shoot everything that moves. They only let some selected russian journalists close and have demonstrated time and time again that they are not keen on having others around.

As for russian soldiers at the border, there are around 40.000 soldiers stationed at the eastern border, according to the last numbers I have seen (From Ukrainian media). They are not there to necessarily invade, but to loose some soldiers, weapons, tanks, btrs and missile systems here and there.

I don't know how many are at the Crimean border, but they constantly fly UAVs from there.

As for how many soldiers are inside Ukraine, NATO said some time ago that there are at least 1000 russian soldiers in Ukraine (If I recall correctly).

But then again, NATO has been known to make intelligence mistakes.

[surpher 1]

(BBC) MH17 crash report chairman on report findings

Dutch Safety Board Chairman talks about shrapnel found in bodies.

[oxmox 73]

Cease-fire or not, the separatists will still shoot everything that moves. They only let some selected russian journalists close and have demonstrated time and time again that they are not keen on having others around.

This is maybe propaganda what you read or describes it when there are no agreements and people just cross the no-mans land without informing them.

Actually there are independent journalists who are with the seperatists. Not only Vice News has journalists on both sides, I saw a videos with an independent german journalist patrolling with seperatist and being in a firefight and not just once. These are not from the main media and deliver the demanded standards, but Vice news is actually quiete good for independent work.

The chance exist now for the main media journalists to cover stories.

Edited September 9, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

This is maybe propaganda what you read or describes it when there are no agreements and people just cross the no-mans land without informing them.

Actually there are independant journalists who are with the seperatists. Not only Vice News has journalists on both sides, I saw a video with an independent german journalist patroulling with seperatist and being in a firefight. These are not from the main media and deliver the demanded standards, but Vice news is actually quiete good for independent work.

The chance exist now for the main media journalists to cover stories.

I don't think you understood me correcty. I'm not saying they are not letting reporters anywhere near, I'm saying they are not letting reporters close (Weird phrasing, just keep reading :) ). And I don't know what Vice articles or videos you mean, but I haven't seen them filming as "close" as russian reporters. I remember only one episode where they filmed the separatists in Donetsk fight along with a big bunch of other reporters and one of the recent where they filmed the separatist meeting up with the ambulances. Russian reporters on the other hand are always present and they always accompany during offensives and other things. Maybe the most recent example is the RT reporter standing right next to the separatists firing grad rockets from a village or some more time ago where they filmed how the separatists crossed the border into Lugansk and started attacking Ukrainian border guards and then hiding in residential areas when air support arrived. The guys from ANNA for example are always with them at any offensive and are always the first on place a few minutes after they shell villages. Some of their reporters even run around in full uniform with russian military vests, helmets, uniforms and sometimes even guns (They do pretty much the same in Syria with Assads army).

The point is that they only let foreign reporters film from time to time if they really want, but they always keep russian reporters with them to show the "russian perspective".

Russia testing "Bastion" rockets in Crimea

Ukraine kinda testing SAMs

(That was totally intended by the way :rolleyes: )

Oh yeah, this is kinda what I mean by the way:

http://youtu.be/t_CJEJnGH74

This video is from yesterday, that means during the cease fire.

Or this

Never mind too violent

Edited September 9, 2014 by beastcat

[oxmox 73]

I don't think you understood me correcty. I'm not saying they are not letting reporters anywhere near, I'm saying they are not letting reporters close .

I dont understand you, the independent journalist who are filming and patrolling with them or reporting about seperatists in general are as close as it is possible. These are war reporters risking their lives. There is not much to discuss, either journalists are reporting or not but it is possible.

Here is an example of a german independent journalist who is joining a combat unit (seperatists) going to patrolling the frontline and have contacts (raw footage), vice news is another example and you will find probably more indep. journalist when you google:

Edited September 9, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]

I dont understand you, the independent journalist who are filming and patrolling with them or reporting about seperatists in general are as close as it is possible. These are war reporters risking their lives.

Give me an example of what you mean, maybe it help our undestanding.

These are the guidelines for journalists by the way:

Their translation is kinda dodgy, but I can translate it if the need arises.

Point 4 is the most dodgy I think.

It says, "Do not make the names of the separatist units (squad/division or stuff like that) public. Especially combined with positions."

[mistyronin 1181]

I dont understand you, the independent journalist who are filming and patrolling with them or reporting about seperatists in general are as close as it is possible. These are war reporters risking their lives. There is not much to discuss, either journalists are reporting or not but it is possible.

Vice news commented that the pro-Russians didn't allowed them to capture images close to certain "masked" and well equipped guys.

In any case, any journalist can find the ways, and take risks to try to provide better information, but then things like the kidnapping of Simon happen.

Oxmox I don't know if you have followed the series of Vice, but one of the journalists, Simon Ovstrovsky was kidnapped and tortured by the pro-Russians during the first months, and that was funny because Simon had the Russian press permit. That's why now the blond guy is usually with the pro-Russians and Simon stays with the Ukrainians.

[oxmox 73]

Vice news commented that the pro-Russians didn't allowed them to capture images close to certain "masked" and well equipped guys.

In any case, any journalist can find the ways, and take risks to try to provide better information, but then things like the kidnapping of Simon happen.

Oxmox I don't know if you have followed the series of Vice, but one of the journalists, Simon Ovstrovsky was kidnapped and tortured by the pro-Russians during the first months, and that was funny because Simon had the Russian press permit. That's why now the blond guy is usually with the pro-Russians and Simon stays with the Ukrainians.

Well, war reporters and journalists in conflict areas have always a very high risk around the world. In some areas more in others less but the risk in general is high.

Neverless, the videos I see from independent journalists show that the main media has chances to cover stories on both sides in the ukrainian conflict. Especially at the moment during cease fire and this thought was my motivation to post about it. If they will do it or if they actually want to do it remains to be seen though.

Edited September 9, 2014 by oxmox

[beastcat 14]