Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

You seriously believe that people in the building themselves burned?

"Themselves burned, killed himself"... Normally you washed...

Well as I told maybe a thousand times, even while it was happening that day ( you can check it, as I commented in this thread while everything happened ); I followed all the riots through different video live stream sources ( I even posted the links of that sources ).

And I could see perfectly when it happened that there, there was a wooden barricade structure in front of the building, and when the Ukrainian hooligans arrived at the square and started surrounding the building, the pro-Russians from the top started throwing them molotov cocktails, one of them ignited the wooden barricade in front of the main door and propagated inside the building.

Violence was quite extreme in both sides, but the Ukrainian Police saved numerous pro-Russians from being beaten.

Other interesting facts from that day was that at least part of the pro-Russians came with white vans with logos of the "Donetsk Republic", so they were not native from there.

But that's all offtopic.

In short NATO is a much greater aggressor than Russia.

I was a NATO soldier, but that doesn't mean that I support all NATO campaigns. But the scope of how NATO and Russian forces behave is really different.

Russia conduct its operations to annex territories in a XIX century imperialist expansionist manner. While in all the NATO operations the power has always been given back to the natives ( some of them asked NATO forces to go, like in Iraq ).

If you compare the situation in Kosovo after almost 20 years of violence and clashes and the situation in Eastern Ukraine were before February of this year there was never important violence, or practically of any kind.

Then you will realize that the violent pro-Russian movement appeared out of the blue, originated from Russian citizens ( most of them from the Moscow area ), decided to use violence even without trying one peaceful method, had lots of weapons and military training, etc.

So no, it's not that there was a problem there before February, is that someone created a problem there from the outside.

Edited September 1, 2014 by MistyRonin

[beastcat 14]

http://youtu.be/4_z8ye0EM70

[astral4eg 10]

But what can you tell as an average russian Oleg?

What exactly you want to know about average russian Oleg?

You watch Kremlin controlled media, newspapers, portals where they are literally pounding you with constant images of right sector....

Wrong, i watch all media, Russian media, "Kremlin" media, Ukrainian media, USA, EU media, and have an objective point of view, unlike you.

branding ALL Ukrainians as nationalists

Notice I didn't call all Ukrainians nationalists.

still feeding you of good old stories of how USSR liberated the Europe from Hitler

You're right, USSR liberated the Europe from Hitler.

No wonder that Russian aggression taking place in eastern Ukraine is explained as freeing the Ukraine from rule of hitlerist Kiev.

What Russian aggression? Wake up people, this Ukrainian troops began to bombard the city with civilians.

And the reason why people in Eastern Ukraine did not want to live in the new Ukraine written above.

To add some spice; a good old propaganda art will do the job and will show to average Oleg that such things take place in Kiev's Maidan every Friday night.

Will not show, already showed in february-may. and everything is understood.

[beastcat 14]

What exactly you want to know about average russian Oleg?

Wrong, i watch all media, Russian media, "Kremlin" media, Ukrainian media, USA, EU media, and have an objective point of view, unlike you.

Notice I didn't call all Ukrainians nationalists.

You're right, USSR liberated the Europe from Hitler.

What Russian aggression? Wake up people, this Ukrainian troops began to bombard the city with civilians.

And the reason why people in Eastern Ukraine did not want to live in the new Ukraine written above.

Will not show, already showed in february-may. and everything is understood.

Oh please, stop spamming this thread with your crap. This has all been discussed to death before.

[astral4eg 10]

Oh please, stop spamming this thread with your crap. This has all been discussed to death before.

Why do you call Eastern Ukrainians terrorists?

[beastcat 14]

Why do you call Eastern Ukrainians terrorists?

When did I call them terrorists?

But you could actually call them terrorists, simply due to the fact that they are using terrorist tactis. If you want I can call them terrorists from now on.

[astral4eg 10]

When did I call them terrorists?

one

two

three

continue?

[beastcat 14]

one

two

three

continue?

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130815124007/transformers-legends/images/c/c4/Triple-facepalm.jpg

lol The third one says "territories", but yeah, I think I'll only say terrorists from now on, exept when I'm talking about russian soldiers directly. Actually, I may think about calling them that as well, seeing how well they fit the definition.

Anyway, back on topic:

The master terrorist putin said that he can take Kiev in two weeks

IBT - Ukraine Crisis: 'If I Want, I Will Take Kiev in Two Weeks', Putin Warns EU's Barroso

The terrorist "motorola" threatened to invade Poland for not letting the russian defense minister (Or something like that) fly in their airspace

Burning terrorist BMD-2 pancake

The foreign minister of the terrorists, Lavrov said, that russia wasn't actually expelled from the G8, but that they just didn't want to go there

RIA

And some more human rights abuses by the terrorists:

Edited September 1, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

You're right, USSR liberated the Europe from Hitler.

That's the best joke I've heard for a long time.

The USSR, invaded half of Europe. And it started as soon as in 1939 with Eastern Finland and Poland, in 1940 the Baltics.

Hungary, Bulgaria, etc. were German's allies, and their worst enemy was the USSR, and so on.

And what is worst the USSR kept that invaded countries as puppets and oppressed them for half a century. If you call that "liberation", be my guest.

You just have to go to any former USSR country and ask their population what they think about Russia and if they want to join it... ( I've done that, and its quite awesome how Russians managed that half of europe hate them ).

[vilas 477]

The terrorist "motorola" threatened to invade Poland for not letting the russian defense minister (Or something like that) fly in their airspace

Russian minister was in Slovakia and flight back was told be military flight, not civilian,

for military flight you need special pass , and Russian minister was angry that Poland do not let his military flight whenever he wants ,

when status of flight was changed to civilian , airplane was let go to fly over territory of PL, but flight was first reported to be military one first, not civilian Aeroflot one, there was some minutes delay, which Russians are angry about, cause for them there is still USSR-area here and they still treat like "there is our military jet in airspace, it will be there in minute",

military flight need to have special status and must be reported much earlier than civilian ones

[beastcat 14]

Russian minister was in Slovakia and flight back was told be military flight, not civilian,

for military flight you need special pass , and Russian minister was angry that Poland do not let his military flight whenever he wants ,

when status of flight was changed to civilian , airplane was let go to fly over territory of PL, but flight was first reported to be military one first, not civilian Aeroflot one, there was some minutes delay, which Russians are angry about, cause for them there is still USSR-area here and they still treat like "there is our military jet in airspace, it will be there in minute",

military flight need to have special status and must be reported much earlier than civilian ones

What a lovely reason to bombard peaceful cities. These russians are really nice people.

[spooky lynx 73]

What about current situation with shot down Malaysian Boeing? Seems that hysteria came down and now nobody says a single word about evil Putin that ate the children. Some other opinions are brought...

INTELLIGENCE analysts in the United States had already concluded that Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down by an air-to-air missile, and that the Ukrainian government had had something to do with it.

Well, gents, your opinion?

[krycek 349]

Russian minister was in Slovakia and flight back was told be military flight, not civilian,

for military flight you need special pass , and Russian minister was angry that Poland do not let his military flight whenever he wants ,

when status of flight was changed to civilian , airplane was let go to fly over territory of PL, but flight was first reported to be military one first, not civilian Aeroflot one, there was some minutes delay, which Russians are angry about, cause for them there is still USSR-area here and they still treat like "there is our military jet in airspace, it will be there in minute",

military flight need to have special status and must be reported much earlier than civilian ones

Isn't that joke called Dmitry Rogozin??Because I remember back in May he did something like this with Romania saying next time he'll fly a TU-160 in there.

[beastcat 14]

What about current situation with shot down Malaysian Boeing? Seems that hysteria came down and now nobody says a single word about evil Putin that ate the children. Some other opinions are brought...

Well, gents, your opinion?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17

The SU-25 service ceiling is still 7km when empty by the way.

[vilas 477]

http://euobserver.com/opinion/123496

http://euobserver.com/media/src/30196762d9c69fc2eeb5daf9391f405a.jpg (559 kB)

[oxmox 73]

US Military conflicts:

1992 Operation Restore Hope

1993 Bosnian War

1994 Operation Uphold Democracy

1998 Kosovo War

2001 War in Afghanistan

2003 Iraq War

2011 military intervention in Libya

2014 American intervention in Iraq

Russian Military conflicts:

1992 War of Transnistria

1992 East Prigorodny Conflict

1992 Civil War in Tajikistan

1993 Georgian Civil War

1994 First Chechen War

1999 War of Dagestan

1999 Second Chechen War

2008 Russo-Georgian War

2009 North Caucasus Insurgency

2014 Ukraine War/Crimean Annexation

You are mixing here wars, insurgency and indirect support in conflicts.

This is for sure not the whole list....

[carlostex 38]

What about current situation with shot down Malaysian Boeing? Seems that hysteria came down and now nobody says a single word about evil Putin that ate the children. Some other opinions are brought...

Well, gents, your opinion?

Americans are evil liars.

[beastcat 14]

You are mixing here wars, insurgency and indirect support in conflicts.

This is for sure not the whole list....

Wars and Insurgency maybe, but those are all direct military conflicts.

[Tonci87 163]

@Astral4eg

Yes the Pro Russians did burn themselves out, it was visible on the Livestream. The Molotovs they threw from the roof and out of windows ignited the barricades they had build in front of the door. The fire spread inside.

The USSR didn´t liberate half of Europe, they conquered it, pillaged it and then oppressed it for half a century. Really, go to one of those liberated countries and ask the people what they think of Russia: Everyone hates it.

Also what are you actually doing on this Forum? All your posts are only in this Thread you don´t seem to have any connection with Arma or BIS. So either you are a Propaganda Drone or a new account for someone who was banned from this Thread. Coincidentaly you also display the same behaviour like that someone. I think I might ask the Mods to check your identity.

@Spooky Service ceiling for an empty SU-25 is still 7km the plane flew much higher. That theory is debunked.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I'm eagerly waiting for Dutch experts conclusions about that drama though (but not for conspiracy theories anyway).

[oxmox 73]

Wars and Insurgency maybe, but those are all direct military conflicts.

Here is a list about US military operations (only official ones) because in your listing the whole Africa continent was missing and other regions of the world. You have to filter some of the operations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1990.E2.80.931999

Edited September 1, 2014 by oxmox

[mistyronin 1181]

( The Guardian ) Nato to create high-readiness force to counter Russian threat

Nato is to create a 4,000-strong "spearhead" high-readiness force that can be deployed rapidly in eastern Europe and the Baltic states to help protect member nations against potential Russian aggression, according to Nato officials.

Leaders from the 28 Nato countries are expected to approve the plan at the alliance's summit in Wales when the Ukraine crisis tops the agenda on Friday.

The Nato secretary-general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said the force, drawn on rotational basis from Nato allies, could be in action at "very, very short notice".

Rasmussen described it as a mixture of regular troops and special forces that could "travel light but strike hard". It would be supported by air and naval forces as needed.

[Tonci87 163]

Here is a list about US military operations (only official ones) because in your listing the whole Africa continent was missing and other regions of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_military_operations#1990.E2.80.931999

How is that even relevant? Compare the history of Russia and of the US and you will see that Russia has invaded far more countries and killed far more civilians. Is that relevant for the current conflict? No. The only thing of relevance is that right now Russia is messing with the autonomy and territorial integrity of an independent country. They are practically invading it.

[ProfTournesol 956]

This accounting of conficts makes no sense anyway, once again. This isn't a contest and doesn't allow any country to consider another one as its own (or force it to create an independant state for separatists, as Putin does).

[vilas 477]

and in addition to what Tonci say, Russia also occupied some countries for centuries and they get freedom and independence only after WW1 and lost it in WW2

so saying about how bad is USA in case of Ukrainian issue and for example oil resources of Ukraine in this region is irrelevant, so what that USA was bad, it doesn't mean that because USA made some dirty stuff, than Russia has right to destroy other countries