Ukraine General

[beastcat 14]

It is crazy or rather frightening how detailed you can manipulate videos in the meanwhile, doesnt matter about the content or the source just comparing the alleged original video (scroll down for genuine ruptly footage) with the one which added a new person.

http://rt.com/news/181024-viral-video-rebel-ferguson/

Seriously, who doesn't immidietly see that thats a fake? The person who made it didn't even try, the lighting is comepletely different.

I have seen only this video recently but from the russian TV and with german subtitles. Allegedly a russian hacker group called "Cyber Berkuts" has hacked the correspondence of ukranian state officials and they claim such documents show the incident was planned ahead. Experts say after their investigations the plane MH17 was first hit into the engine by an air-air rocket and the 30mm was the death blow fired by one of the two fighter jets which were close to the plane.

But since so much media war in general is around about this conflict - i rembemer on this: "The first casualty of war is the truth".

I only wonder why there are not any infos spread about the black box results and further investigation from the western media, its totally silence.

Yeah, that theory has been disprooven already. The guys who were investigating the wreckage already stated, that it was a Buk missile or something similiar.

I only wonder why there are not any infos spread about the black box results and further investigation from the western media, its totally silence.

What do you expect them to find out? That the pilots went "Oh, we can see how a missile has been fired 10km below us. It is now moving towards us. Yes, looks definitely like a 9M38 missile. Yes, it is now behind us. Aaand it has exploded, we are now dying."

The black box is currently in Britain and is being analysed, because they had problems in the Netherlands for some reason.

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:58 ----------

How did you see that they are KAMAZ?

Spot the difference. Yes, I know its hard, but if you try hard enough you will see it.

Edited August 18, 2014 by beastcat

[sudayev 27]

Initial report on MH17 black boxes will be revealed on early September. Experts are far from making early statements yet, it was all on the news. There are so many topics to cover so they mostly focus on what's hot at the moments. Im soure without Iraq, Syria, Israel, Ukraine you would hear about Mh17 on every day.

[negah 26]

I only wonder why there are not any infos spread about the black box results and further investigation from the western media, its totally silence.

Im questioning myself that too. Same about the conversation of the ukrainian flight controller with the plane crew.

I guess its much easier to cover everything up and tell everyone Russia is to blame for everything.

Edited August 18, 2014 by negah

[mistyronin 1181]

Im questioning myself that too. Same about the conversation of the ukrainian flight controller with the plane crew.

I guess its much easier to cover everything up and tell everyone Russia is to blame for everything.

I'm afraid they have found no relevant info in the black boxes, or they would be in the front-line of the news.

What would make more sense is if any satellite or other devices were able to track any activity.

But seems that neither Russia nor the US are willing to show any data of that kind...

[maturin 12]

The Black Boxes are going to show nothing interesting. The plane's behavior in Ukrainian airspace was utterly normal. Even if the airtraffic controller was a Jewish freemason and the lovechild of George Soros and the lead singer of Pussy Riot, trained by the CIA, none of the conversation would be particularly important. The plane simply received everyday instructions to fly a normal route, with minute adjustments.

The plane was flying along obliviously until it was suddenly blown to pieces. Even if you think it was jet that did it, the pilots would have no idea. There's no rear-facing camera or visibility, nor any reason to pay attention to your six.

As for the satellite footage, it seems that the U.S. pulled a boner and wasn't watching for unusual missile launches. A Buk launch doesn't trigger the established early warning system, nor is a Buk considerably different from a Grad volley, in visual terms. Russia probably doesn't even have the capability. If they had any actual evidence, they would have put together a news conference that wasn't 90% unintelligible, with Su-25s pulling off impossible R-60 kills and then magically transforming into helicopters, all while the Kremlin-controlled media spreads alternate versions of the same conspiracy theory.

[ProfTournesol 956]

That's really sad for the people who died in the crash. I hope someone will say something one day.

[beastcat 14]

http://youtu.be/vTM30lPl6Pc

Billboard in Novosibirsk.
It says "Organisation of regional and international transport of Freight 200"


The Guardian - 15 bodies found after strike on refugee convoy

A Ukrainian military spokesman, Anatoly Proshin, said on Monday evacuees were being transported by military vehicles flying white flags, which were hit by mortars and Grad rockets. "There were a huge number of casualties. People were burned alive in the vehicles that were taking them out," he told the Ukrainian Pravda newspaper.

But Andrei Purgin, deputy prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels did not have the ability to send Grad rockets to the area where the convoy was hit, and government forces had been bombarding that road with Grad rockets and air strikes.

Liga Novosti (RU) - Photo evidence of the separatists using Uragan rockets

http://news.liga.net/upload/medialibrary/335/335d67ccffe8254230e881a78543e940.jpg (121 kB)


Joshua Yaffa Twitter

Another impression from along border: lots of scenes like this one of rebel fighters waiting for rides into Ukraine.

Some more polish videos


Residents of Makeevka have driven away separatists who tried to dig a firing position in the city

http://youtu.be/pA4COLse1sc

Msta on the road to russian Donetsk.





Informator (RU) - Russian "little green man" have invaded Lugansk (region)

August 19th, a column of military equipment from Russia went through s.Nikolaevka Stanichno Luhansk region. "Caravan" of tanks, MLRS "Grad", artillery and even field kitchens stretched for 1.5 kilometers. The military equipment passed through s.Pionerskoe, s.Nikolaevka towards Lugansk.

If this gets confirmed we might finally have WW3 on our hands. (Probably just a very scary cold war 2 for most of the world) (Oh and hold your horses, I dont mean "finally" in a good sense)



Meanwhile the shelling of Donetsk has intensified probably more than ever before, now that the separatists have gotten their reinforcement and weapons from Russia.

http://youtu.be/aKYvRC9jUd8

http://youtu.be/wdiHh1Gq49o

Also, Ahmetov has jumped onto the humanitarian aid bandwagon

http://youtu.be/NlSehNMS1VM

Edited August 19, 2014 by beastcat

[surpher 1]

(Reuters) Insight - Ukraine rebel movement faces uncertain future

Meanwhile in Moscow

That's a worker sent to take down the flag taking a selfie, painter escaped via parachute according to LifeNews.

Edited August 20, 2014 by surpher

[mistyronin 1181]

Serbian volunteer:

http://youtu.be/-1GuIB6EgnA

[beastcat 14]

Ukraine has banned Russia Today.

[surpher 1]

FPDR

Edited August 20, 2014 by surpher

[beastcat 14]

FPDR

The Ukraine@War blog has an entry about the guy in the first video, saying that he is now a POW and used for propaganda reasons. (For me the guys don't really look alike, but the comparison does kinda make sense)

And oh god, the second video... I don't even know what to think about that...

Trains in Voronesh (Russia, north of Lugansk and Rostov)

Zerkalo Nedeli (UA) - Russia is checking its readiness for nuclear war

Oh and Russia is closing down McDonalds in Moscow, 4 restaurants have been closed in Moscow.

The Moscow Times - Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments

Edited August 20, 2014 by beastcat

[carlostex 38]

The Moscow Times - Russia Wants Bulgarians to Stop Vandalizing Soviet Monuments

http://puu.sh/b0vTL/a6bbdc3383.jpg

Why doesn´t Russia take their Soviet time monuments from other countries and stick up their ugly Russian as***les? If i was Bulgarian, Latvian or Polish etc... why the fuck should i have to look at Russian pride symbolism? And they say the west is imperialist??

[mistyronin 1181]

Why doesn´t Russia take their Soviet time monuments from other countries and stick up their ugly Russian as***les? If i was Bulgarian, Latvian or Polish etc... why the fuck should i have to look at Russian pride symbolism? And they say the west is imperialist??

In fact it doesn't make much sense to have that monuments after the fall of the Soviet Union. The dictatorship is over.

[aleksadragutin 9]

Why doesn´t Russia take their Soviet time monuments from other countries and stick up their ugly Russian as***les? If i was Bulgarian, Latvian or Polish etc... why the fuck should i have to look at Russian pride symbolism? And they say the west is imperialist??

They chased off the Germans in WW2 so that should be a reason good enough.

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:12 ----------

In fact it doesn't make much sense to have that monuments after the fall of the Soviet Union. The dictatorship is over.

Most of the countries in the east have those monuments in gratitude to the Soviet liberation.

And this is an ironic piece because it symbolizes the west taking over where the Soviets had left off.

Edited August 20, 2014 by aleksadragutin

[mistyronin 1181]

They chased off the Germans in WW2 so that should be a reason good enough.

In fact Bulgaria was allied to Germany in WW2, and the soviets invaded them and controlled them for decades. So I don't think they are much grateful to the Soviets ( at least judging by my Bulgarian work mates ).

Most of the countries in the east have those monuments in gratitude to the Soviet liberation.

Monuments build by the Soviets themselves after they invaded them. I wouldn't call that gratitude nor liberation, but imposition and oppression.

In fact the Soviets didn't "liberate", but invade most of the countries they could, and then installed there "puppet" regimes.

Finland ( partially and still nowadays ) and Poland were invaded in the 1939 by Russia. The Baltics in 1940.

The rest were mostly allies of Germany ( Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Finland ) and considered the USSR their enemy, so obviously they were not "grateful" to be "liberated" by their enemy, specially if the USSR kept that invasion for decades.

Edited August 20, 2014 by MistyRonin

[aleksadragutin 9]

In fact Bulgaria was allied to Germany in WW2, and the soviets invaded them and controlled them for decades. So I don't think they are much grateful to the Soviets ( at least judging by my Bulgarian work mates ).

Monuments build by the Soviets themselves after they invaded them. I wouldn't call that gratitude nor liberation, but imposition and oppression.

In fact the Soviets didn't "liberate", but invade most of the countries they could, and then installed there "puppet" regimes.

Finland ( partially and still nowadays ) and Poland were invaded in the 1939 by Russia. The Baltics in 1940.

The rest were mostly allies of Germany ( Romania, Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Finland ) and considered the USSR their enemy, so obviously they were not "grateful" to be "liberated" by their enemy, specially if the USSR kept that invasion for decades.

As soon as the Soviets came Bulgarians just swapped their badge with a red star and claimed to have been freed by the Soviets. So did all of former German allies. Even Italians and French.

As far as the liberating goes, yes it was kind of invading, but compared to what the Germans were doing it was "liberation".

[mistyronin 1181]

As soon as the Soviets came Bulgarians just swapped their badge with a red star and claimed to have been freed by the Soviets. So did all of former German allies. Even Italians and French.

As far as the liberating goes, yes it was kind of invading, but compared to what the Germans were doing it was "liberation".

Well the French did the same when the Germans invaded them, but most of them hated the Germans.

All the people that I talked from the different Eastern countries ( Baltics, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. ), also in Finland and Eastern Germany, said that Russia / USSR was/is considered a bully and invader.

So I see logic that after the fall of the USSR dictatorship they are trying to get rid of the Soviet things, that has happen even at some extend in the Russian Federation where they removed the hammer and the sickle and added the Imperial Eagle ( for example in the Federal Duma ).

Check this.

Edited August 20, 2014 by MistyRonin

[beastcat 14]

Why doesn´t Russia take their Soviet time monuments from other countries and stick up their ugly Russian as***les? If i was Bulgarian, Latvian or Polish etc... why the fuck should i have to look at Russian pride symbolism? And they say the west is imperialist??

I like you.

---------- Post added at 18:13 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

Well the French did the same when the Germans invaded them, but most of them hated the Germans.

All the people that I talked from the different Eastern countries ( Baltics, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. ), also in Finland and Eastern Germany, Russia / USSR was/is considered a bully and invader.

So I see logic that after the fall of the USSR dictatorship they are trying to get rid of the Soviet things, that has happen even at some extend in the Russian Federation where they removed the hammer and the sickle and added the Imperial Eagle ( for example in the Federal Duma ).

Check this.

About the getting rid of soviet things stuff, heres an interesting article about what has been going on in Ukraine after they got rid of Yanukovich:

Daily Mail - First the president, now Lenin: Stunning map reveals 100 statues of Soviet leader have been toppled in Ukraine

And the article is from February and this process has not stopped. As a fun fact: The residents of many cities that have been freed from the russians have demolished their lenin statues.

And the lenin in Slavyansk looks like this now:

A little more civil and I kinda like it more.

Also, Im wondering, did Russia just film itself cross the border illegally with their trucks?

http://youtu.be/NI3V42jrsYk

Edited August 20, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

Well the French did the same when the Germans invaded them, but most of them hated the Germans.

All the people that I talked from the different Eastern countries ( Baltics, Bulgaria, Poland, etc. ), also in Finland and Eastern Germany, said that Russia / USSR was/is considered a bully and invader.

So I see logic that after the fall of the USSR dictatorship they are trying to get rid of the Soviet things, that has happen even at some extend in the Russian Federation where they removed the hammer and the sickle and added the Imperial Eagle ( for example in the Federal Duma ).

Check this.

I get that, but no matter how painfull history was, you should not destroy monuments. Like Auschwitz. It was horrible but people treasure it because it's history, and destroying history is vandalic.

[beastcat 14]

I get that, but no matter how painfull history was, you should not destroy monuments. Like Auschwitz. It was horrible but people treasure it because it's history, and destroying history is vandalic.

For some reason they didn't keep all the swastika statues and monuments everywhere. The whole denazification process actually got rid of a lot of stuff.

I also love how quickly you went from "soviet liberation" to "it was horrible" and comparing it to remnants of the holocaust.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/98-animate.gif (251 kB)

Edited August 20, 2014 by beastcat

[aleksadragutin 9]

I meant it ironically. And I wasn't comparing it to holocaust in any way. In fact I sad that it was a liberation considering what the Germans were doing.

You are really good at twisting words.

[carlostex 38]

Most of the countries in the east have those monuments in gratitude to the Soviet liberation.

And this is an ironic piece because it symbolizes the west taking over where the Soviets had left off.

Nobody can deny the Russian contribution and sacrifice, but this monument issue is ridiculous. Should all the liberated countries by the Soviet Union also erect monuments to celebrate the liberators that raped their women?

[mistyronin 1181]

I get that, but no matter how painfull history was, you should not destroy monuments. Like Auschwitz. It was horrible but people treasure it because it's history, and destroying history is vandalic.

Well I kind of agree with you, but I think it's a bit different in this case. I mean one thing is Auschwitz that must be always remembered, it's an iconic place. But that statues are not specially significant, it's just one of hundreds.

Usually every government on Earth tends to recycle that kind of stuff ( statues, seals, etc. ), but keep the important places ( palaces, memorials, ruins, etc. ).

[aleksadragutin 9]

Well I kind of agree with you, but I think it's a bit different in this case. I mean one thing is Auschwitz that must be always remembered, it's an iconic place. But that statues are not specially significant, it's just one of hundreds.

Usually every government on Earth tends to recycle that kind of stuff ( statues, seals, etc. ), but keep the important places ( palaces, memorials, ruins, etc. ).

And that's why we tend to repeat history.

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:37 ----------

Nobody can deny the Russian contribution and sacrifice, but this monument issue is ridiculous. Should all the liberated countries by the Soviet Union also erect monuments to celebrate the liberators that raped their women?

You are now going to extremes. No one said anything like that.