Ukraine General

[negah 26]

Oh and picking at single words is apparently your strongsuit.

Are we going to get personal now or what?

If you read between the lines, you might notice that "no 100% privacy" means surveillance and policing of individuals.

I dont know about US but according to german law, my privacy is untouchable by everyone except me.

That means that some prick at the NSA has no right to read my emails. But thats exactly what Obama said they want to do if it means its good for our safety.

[maturin 12]

The United States has unfortunately never had strong privacy laws, nor is privacy mentioned in the constitution.

I would personally like to change that, although I would hope that the NSA pricks will always have access to your emails if they can satisfy a judge (or some other arbiter of actual due process) that you are engaged in illegal activity that they are investigating. And if you aren't an American citizen or legal resident, I really don't care how much they read your email, provided it is part of a targeted investigation and not a random siphoning up of data.

[negah 26]

I would personally like to change that, although I would hope that the NSA pricks will always have access to your emails if they can satisfy a judge (or some other arbiter of actual due process) that you are engaged in illegal activity that they are investigating. And if you aren't an American citizen or legal resident, I really don't care how much they read your email, provided it is part of a targeted investigation and not a random siphoning up of data.

Thanks for such kind words, americans should really stop wondering why the rest of the world hates them.

Oh wait, they dont care.

Edited July 23, 2014 by negah

[maturin 12]

So countries shouldn't have security services that monitor potential threats? They shouldn't investigate citizens of other countries to avoid hurting their feelings?

It's amusing that you view this as an American problem or phenomenon. Governments spy. Sometimes it is justified. I'm sorry, but it's time to get out of the crib and live in the grown-up world.

Project Rahab is an arm of the Bundesnachrichtendienst, or BND, Germany's foreign intelligence agency. Of note, the BND is directly subordinate to German chancellor Angela Merkel.

Project Rahab uses SIGINT -- intelligence based on interception of signals, conversations and electronic communications -- to gather information on foreign business competition that can benefit German companies. BND officers have penetrated computer networks and databases in countries including Russia, the United Kingdom, Japan, France, Italy, and the United States.

In his book Spies Among Us, former NSA intelligence and computer systems analyst Ira Winkler details Project Rahab hackers' successful infiltration of the Society for Worldwide Interbank Financial Telecommunication (SWIFT), which provides the network for financial institutions worldwide to send and receive trillions of dollars in a secure and reliable environment. The ability to monitor SWIFT transactions would provide German businesses a leg up -- at least. (As it happens, last month, the German magazine Der Spiegel used documents acquired by Edward Snowden to break the news that the NSA monitors SWIFT.)

Project Rahab poses a far greater threat to U.S. national security. Of particular concern, according to Winkler, is "the apparent willingness of German businesses to funnel sensitive information and technology to nations that are hostile to the United States." For example, Iran. Much of what Iran has acquired is nuclear technology.

Yesterday, BND head Gerhard Schindler issued the following denial to the Zeit online news site: "No telecommunication-intelligence is conducted from the German embassy in Washington." Not exactly a denial of spying on us, is it?

This is all old news to the intelligence community. As British Prime Minister Palmerston told the House of Commons in 1848, "We have no eternal allies, and we have no perpetual enemies. Our interests are eternal and perpetual, and those interests it is our duty to follow." Adds longtime CIA operations officer Fred Rustmann, whose book CIA, Inc. covers Volkswagen's mid-'90s theft of secrets from General Motors, "All countries spy on one another if they have the capability. The only possible exception is the U.S. and U.K., who have a special relationship. [Today's] scandal isn't that we were intercepting Merkel's phone calls, it's that we couldn't keep it secret."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/oh-by-the-way-germany-spi_b_4184047.html

[negah 26]

So countries shouldn't have security services that monitor potential threats? They shouldn't investigate citizens of other countries to avoid hurting their feelings?

It's amusing that you view this as an American problem or phenomenon. Governments spy. Sometimes it is justified. I'm sorry, but it's time to get out of the crib and live in the grown-up world.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-thomson/oh-by-the-way-germany-spi_b_4184047.html

I know it, but first and foremost its our internal problem. But we dont like when someone sticks his nose into our internal problems.

Now imagine what would happen if Snowden would say that Germany is spying on the USA.

I think my house would be right now bombed into dust, just because you can.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Guys, there's already a topic about the USA.

[spooky lynx 73]

Myke;2737962']One thing i don't understand' date=' maybe i'm just too naive: pro-russian troops say they don't have AA systems to shoot down a plane. Yet they downed 2 ukrainian SU-25. I always thought you need a AA system to down a SU-25, throwing rocks wouldn't do it. And don't even think of mentioning MANPADS, they wont take down 2 SU-25 from 7000 meters.[/quote']

Pro-Russian troops stated they have no AA systems to shoot down a plane that flies at 10 km height. But for Frogfoots flying at 2000-3000 m (average height used for such attack planes during combat sorties) they have some presents to give.

One more Frogfoot downed today:

http://cs620618.vk.me/v620618842/120f6/Sc95eAiMsJ0.jpg (341 kB)

http://cs620618.vk.me/v620618842/120ec/xDpi4weHfC0.jpg (358 kB)

http://cs616130.vk.me/v616130649/17c48/nVIenaNSFM0.jpg (377 kB)

http://cs620618.vk.me/v620618842/12178/2R-ifMhG5as.jpg (404 kB)

Edited July 23, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[surpher 1]

(Ukraine@war) Russian soldiers VK-page shows RUSSIA is shelling Ukraine with heavy artillery

[[frl]myke 14]

I think guesswork is over: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FS1V920140723?irpc=932

Khodakovsky blamed the Kiev authorities for provoking what may have been the missile strike that destroyed the doomed airliner, saying Kiev had deliberately launched air strikes in the area, knowing the missiles were in place.

"I knew that a BUK came from Luhansk. At the time I was told that a BUK from Luhansk was coming under the flag of the LNR," he said, referring to the Luhansk People’s Republic, the main rebel group operating in Luhansk, one of two rebel provinces along with Donetsk, the province where the crash took place.

"That BUK I know about. I heard about it. I think they sent it back. Because I found out about it at exactly the moment that I found out that this tragedy had taken place. They probably sent it back in order to remove proof of its presence," Khodakovsky told Reuters on Tuesday.

"The question is this: Ukraine received timely evidence that the volunteers have this technology, through the fault of Russia. It not only did nothing to protect security, but provoked the use of this type of weapon against a plane that was flying with peaceful civilians," he said.

"They knew that this BUK existed; that the BUK was heading for Snezhnoye," he said, referring to a village 10 km (six miles) west of the crash site. "They knew that it would be deployed there, and provoked the use of this BUK by starting an air strike on a target they didn’t need, that their planes hadn’t touched for a week."

"And that day, they were intensively flying, and exactly at the moment of the shooting, at the moment the civilian plane flew overhead, they launched air strikes. Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down."

Sir, you are a coward. If you want to be a tough man, stand up and admit that your troops fucked it up. Take responsibility and don't blame any others. Your men did push the button to launch the missile. No one else. You. You are responsible. Take it like the man you suppose to be.

[beastcat 14]

(Ukraine@war) Russian soldiers VK-page shows RUSSIA is shelling Ukraine with heavy artillery

That is actually pretty big, because before there was no clear evidence. I wonder how civilized countries will react.

Also the poor guy who posted the pics will probably disappear very soon.

[maturin 12]

U.S. and Ukrainian surveillance assets are unclear. U.S. imagery satellites do not detect this kind of missile launch. Depending on U.S. SIGINT and ELINT assets, the United States might or might not get data on radar detection and tracking.

http://csis.org/publication/downing-malaysian-airliner-avoid-rushing-judgment

That is actually pretty big, because before there was no clear evidence.

Again, that's not exactly proof. I'm sure just that social media is full of artillerymen posting pictures of their guns during training and joking that they are shelling Moscow or Tel Aviv or whatever.

Also, if those guns were aimed to the southeast they would probably be in range of the aerial bombing range outside Rostov (47°24'10"N 39°17'15"E).

Edited July 23, 2014 by maturin

[mistyronin 1181]

Myke;2738199']I think guesswork is over: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FS1V920140723?irpc=932

I don't know if you noticed but a few days ago the Russian and pro-Russian media changed already their style' date=' saying that all those to blame were not those who shot down the plane but does who allowed it to enter their airspace.

In fact that point was the one the Russian emissary to the UN Security Council remarked when the meeting about the incident.

- - -

When the Alexander Borodai, prime minister of the self-declared Donetsk People's Republic (DPR), recognizes himself to be a Russian citizen not Ukrainian...

( BBC ) [b']MH17 plane crash: Ukraine rebel leader defends conduct[/b]

Mr Borodai admitted that the rebels had received support from "the whole Russian people" in their fight against the Ukrainian government.

"Volunteers are joining us," he said, describing himself as one of them - "a resident of the city of Moscow".

"It just so happened that, instead of sitting in a trench with a rifle or a machine gun, I now have the post of prime minister. Well… that's fate."

He denied that he was a member of a Russian intelligence agency, as has often been alleged.

However, he admitted to having contact with other members of the secret services in Russia - as, he said, would anyone "who has dealings with the elite of society".

[vilas 477]

I wonder how civilized countries will react..

when corporations bribe governments, than only business and selling products (including military products) will be important ,

after war in Georgia : France, Germany and also Italy - improved Russian army and brought all high-tech which Russia was lacking,

just like 1/3-rd of genocides in Africa is because of big mining corporations , who in US/EU are making good-PR by founding kindergardens and hospitals,

[[frl]myke 14]

I don't know if you noticed but a few days ago the Russian and pro-Russian media changed already their style, saying that all those to blame were not those who shot down the plane but does who allowed it to enter their airspace.

In fact that point was the one the Russian emissary to the UN Security Council remarked when the meeting about the incident.

This is utter BS (not from you, from the russian propaganda). Ever since the airspace over conflict zones was open to commercial flights. Not only in Ukraine but all over the world. It's the same for ground troops: there are civilians in the combat area, before pulling the trigger make sure your gun is pointing at a enemy. Lame excuses from a bunch of cowards. If they want to be respected, they'll find the one who pushed the button and pass it to a independent council. But i really doubt this will happen. No, i'm quite sure this wont happen.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Ukrainian governement says the two SU-25 were shot down by Air-to-Air missiles : http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28454735

[beastcat 14]

when corporations bribe governments, than only business and selling products (including military products) will be important ,

after war in Georgia : France, Germany and also Italy - improved Russian army and brought all high-tech which Russia was lacking,

just like 1/3-rd of genocides in Africa is because of big mining corporations , who in US/EU are making good-PR by founding kindergardens and hospitals,

That's what I'm afraid of.

Ukrainian position being shot at from the russian side of the border

http://youtu.be/2_JELLJsYnQ

According to this and earlier videos, the separatists now have at least one 9K35 Strela-10 surface to air missile system (1m 10s).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/9A34_Strela-10_-_4th_Separate_Tank_Brigade_%288%29.jpg/1920px-9A34_Strela-10_-_4th_Separate_Tank_Brigade_%288%29.jpg (376 kB)

Edited July 24, 2014 by beastcat

[surpher 1]

(The Telegraph) MH17: the clues which may lead to missile launch site

While the Telegraph cannot vouch for the soundness of the analysis, a visit to the locations suggested found a remote area with clear views in the direction of MH17's flight path, a heavy rebel military presence, and multiple marks across fields and dirt roads that suggested tracked vehicles had been operating in the area.

[negah 26]

http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/5090800/russland---wo-sind-die-beweise-fuer-mh17-abschuss--.html

Russia demands the presentation of proofs that it was Russia or the Rebels, who shot down the plane.

Moreover they demand the publication of the communication between the Ukrainian air traffic controller and the crew of that plane, since they are of big importance for the investigation.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Moreover they demand the publication of the communication between the Ukrainian air traffic controller and the crew of that plane, since they are of big importance for the investigation.

I suppose the cockpit recorder analysis will reveal it.

[mistyronin 1181]

According to this and earlier videos, the separatists now have at least one 9K35 Strela-10 surface to air missile system (1m 10s).

And lot's of BMPs, when theoretically they only captured a few BMDs ( as much a couple of half destroyed BMPs abandoned in Mariupol ).

It's lovely to have "military stores" in Eastern Ukraine where you can buy all kinds of APC fully equipped...

( Financial Times ) Ukraine crisis: Fears rise of Russia-fuelled arms race

Among the equipment US intelligence officials believe Russia has supplied are dozens of T-64 battle tanks, Grad rocket launchers, 2S9 Nona self-propelled guns, artillery, BMP-2 infantry combat vehicles with automatic cannons, armoured troop carriers, small arms from semi-automatic weapons and mines, and sophisticated anti-aircraft systems.

Thank God that Putin signed a law two days ago against separatism and punishing up to few years of prison, for calling for separatism in the Internet...

Edited July 24, 2014 by MistyRonin

[negah 26]

http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/

What I’ve been told by one source, who has provided accurate information on similar matters in the past, is that U.S. intelligence agencies do have detailed satellite images of the likely missile battery that launched the fateful missile, but the battery appears to have been under the control of Ukrainian government troops dressed in what look like Ukrainian uniforms.

The source said CIA analysts were still not ruling out the possibility that the troops were actually eastern Ukrainian rebels in similar uniforms but the initial assessment was that the troops were Ukrainian soldiers. There also was the suggestion that the soldiers involved were undisciplined and possibly drunk, since the imagery showed what looked like beer bottles scattered around the site, the source said.

I wonder though, how can you see on the satellite images that the soldiers were drunk. Beer bottles does not mean they were drunk. Might be alcohol free beer.

Edited July 24, 2014 by negah

[ProfTournesol 956]

The least we can say, is that this article is as vague as "mainstream" medias assertions. But well, i find surprising that still no evidences have been released by the US.

[beastcat 14]

I wonder though, how can you see on the satellite images that the soldiers were drunk. Beer bottles does not mean they were drunk. Might be alcohol free beer.

I also wonder how you can distinguish the uniform. While both the army and the separatists dress however they wan't, there is actually more variaty in how the army dresses, since almost every unit wears a different bulletproof vest or plate carrier, if at all, depending on what they could find. While the separatists often use this camo, its still pretty much as random as it can get. If you really want to identify a separatist, you have to look for big russian flags or st george ribbons (However its pretty hard to spot ribbons from space).

If you want to identify the army you have to look for ukrainian flag stickers everywhere.

Btw, someone has to make a mod of this uniform for ArmA 3, it looks kinda cool. ArmA 3 doesn't have the right helmets and camos to make something similiar to this...

Edited July 24, 2014 by beastcat

[mistyronin 1181]

The least we can say, is that this article is as vague as "mainstream" medias assertions. But well, i find surprising that still no evidences have been released by the US.

I think it's related with that first Putin's call to Obama... "if you hide this, I will give you that..."

[beastcat 14]

Dutch people want to ban putin's daughter. Edited July 24, 2014 by beastcat