Ukraine General

[arttem 1]

So if you were talking about the weapons in Maidan why you post photos from last month or march? You don't make much sense.

That's why you posted this one from last month? ( probably Odessa )

Muzichko in Odessa? Wow!!!! Holy resurrection!!!

This one also from last month:

http://sputnikipogrom.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/1393089326_rtf_rnixm2u.jpg

Yeeees!!! Last month!!! Ofcourse! How i forget....

Or this one from march?

Aha. They bury Muzychko and the "Right Sector" is with AK in the midst of a peaceful town.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ArtTem

[mistyronin 1181]

Muzichko in Odessa? Wow!!!! Holy resurrection!!!

Check the source, it says that is from April 2014 news.

BTW this one is from March.

Edited May 12, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Check the source, it says that is from April 2014 news.

BTW this one is from March.

http://s00.yaplakal.com/pics/pics_original/9/3/8/2901839.jpg

Yep. Policemans and some strange guys do salute near the grave of Shuhevich. I can tell that they are from "Right Sector". According to who was that Shuhevich:

[batto 17]

BTW Maidan protesters were completely peaceful, and only wanted to keep their camp in the center of the town. The violence started when the police tried to evict them.

BTW Donetsk protesters were completely peaceful, and only wanted to keep their camp in the center of the town. The violence started when the military tried to evict them.

While Donetsk insurrection, has few popular legitimization ( they are trying to gain it, with the faked referendum ). They took war weapons without even waiting for the elections in may, assaulting buildings with violence, kidnapping journalists, etc.

While Kiev insurrection, has few popular legitimization ( they were trying to gain it, with the faked referendum ). They took war weapons without even waiting for the elections in may, assaulting buildings with violence, beating policeman, most probably shooting own people, etc.

Hypocrisy at its best.

---------- Post added at 02:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

Martial law in those cities would make sense just to get the civilians out of harms way.

Until the military shoot at civilians. Oh wait...

[arttem 1]

Check the source, it says that is from April 2014 news.

Muzichko was killed in march. Do you realize that after any events many journalist continue make articles, post photos and write investigations? No? Ok. Sorry.

[negah 26]

While Kiev insurrection, has few popular legitimization ( they were trying to gain it, with the faked parliament poll). They took war weapons without even waiting for the elections on 29 March 2015, assaulting buildings with violence, beating/torturing on open streets (while filming the process and posting it on facebook "look how cool we are")/killing policemen, most probably shooting own people, etc.

Hypocrisy at its best.

I excuse myself for taking some liberty to edit your post

Until the military shoot at civilians. Oh wait...

<IRONY>Well its a sound plan, if all the civies stay in houses you can simply set the houses on fire without herding them all in some building first.</IRONY>

To be honest martial law could improve the situation, but I dont really think people there will obey it.

Its not that the separatists keep the civilians at gunpoint and use them as human shields. Most of the people there ARE separatists, both armed and unarmed.

There are many reasons for it, not only russian propaganda but also extremely stupid behaviour of the UA "government" (is there a reason why each time a US official visited UA a "counter-terrorist operation" started next day?).

[mistyronin 1181]

BTW Donetsk protesters were completely peaceful, and only wanted to keep their camp in the center of the town. The violence started when the military tried to evict them.

What Donetsk protesters are you talking? If you mean the civilian ones were completly peaceful, so you would be right.

But I'm afraid you mean the insurgents milita, that armed with war weapons started to assault buildings, kidnaping people ( lots of them press and foreigners ), and committing all mind of crimes.

Yep your version of the text distills hypocrisy, you are right.

It's a bit scary that some people is unable to see the differences between protests in Maidan ( aggressive if you want ) and armed insurrection in the Donbas basin.

To be honest martial law could improve the situation, but I dont really think people there will obey it.

Its not that the separatists keep the civilians at gunpoint and use them as human shields. Most of the people there ARE separatists, both armed and unarmed.

To me the most important point, would be that with the martial law, those who wanted to risk their integrity would go to the streets and those who prefer peaceful actions at home. At least until the armed thugs are dealt with, and people can again protest peacefully in the streets.

- - -

It funny that in this thread I've been criticized by the pro-Russian followers. When I have been the first to defend that Russian speaking Ukrainians have all the right to protest and fight for their rights. I even defended over and over, that they have all the right to do a referendum to decide their future.

Obviously all that done properly, democratically and peacefully.

Seems like the violence is the only way for those who support the pro-Russian, which is really sad IMO.

I wonder how would you react with Ukrainian 'unionists'...

Edited May 12, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

Today in Verhovna Rada. About Mariupol, Donetsk.

http://youtu.be/_dRLy0d2jPM

I don't have a time to translate. In few words:

- TV is lying;

- Government is lying;

- Turchinov is lying;

- We lost Crimea because of your politic;

- Economic ruined (national currency, salary's, agriculture);

- Two new regions can go out from Ukraine, if government will be doing things that way;

- Nobody did any investigations about Maidan, Odessa etc.;

- Mr. Turchinov tell us why BMP killed all family in kitchen of their house?;

- Your drove us to situation when 7 million of people who live in regions which produces 30% of GDP, deny you and Ukraine;

- We need to stop that bloody massacre in East;

- We need a federalization to save our country;

- We need to work on constitution..

Mr. Turchinov face shows something like i need to make a call. 6:04

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

It's a bit scary that some people is unable to see the differences between protests in Maidan ( aggressive if you want ) and armed insurrection in the Donbas basin.

It's a bit scary that smdy play with events timeline as he want.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ArtTem

[batto 17]

What Donetsk protesters are you talking? If you mean the civilian ones were completly peaceful, so you would be right.

But I'm afraid you mean the insurgents milita, that armed with war weapons started to assault buildings, kidnaping people ( lots of them press and foreigners ), and committing all mind of crimes.

What Maidan protesters are you talking? If you mean the civilian ones were completly peaceful, so you would be right.

But I'm afraid you mean extremists, that armed with molotovs started to assault buildings, probably shooting its own people, and committing all mind of crimes.

It's a bit scary that some people is unable to see the differences between protests in Maidan ( aggressive if you want ) and armed insurrection in the Donbas basin.

It's a bit sad that some people is unable to see the differences between the "cause" and "means".

Edited May 12, 2014 by batto

[mistyronin 1181]

It's a bit scary that smdy play with events timeline as he want.

What timeline are you referring to?

The events are quite clear:

- Maidan protests from December 2013 to February 2014

- Russian military Invasion of Crimea in March '14

- Eastern pro-Russian Ukraine Insurrection April - May '14

It's a bit sad that some people is unable to see the difference between the "cause" and the "means".

What cause and what means are you talking?

As I told you I support all the people who defend their rights and culture democratically and peacefully. But not those thugs who illegally take war weapons and terrorize the population.

You may not like Ukraine's gov. but it was elected by the parliament elected democratically in 2012.

Edited May 12, 2014 by MistyRonin

[arttem 1]

What timeline are you referring to?

Reasons and consequence of the reasons.

[batto 17]

You may not like Ukraine's gov. but it was elected by the parliament elected democratically in 2012.

As was its president.

[Tonci87 163]

You guys are still completely failing to accept that the Kiew Protests were peacefull for months! And only when the police started to get violent the public responded in kind. What did we see in this uprising? Months of peacefull protest? A political campaign? None of that. Suddenly groups with heavy weapons started to appear all over the place, taking buildings, hostages and demanding stuff.

[mistyronin 1181]

You guys are still completely failing to accept that the Kiew Protests were peacefull for months! And only when the police started to get violent the public responded in kind. What did we see in this uprising? Months of peacefull protest? A political campaign? None of that. Suddenly groups with heavy weapons started to appear all over the place, taking buildings, hostages and demanding stuff.

I couldn't express myself clearer ( in fact I pointed exactly that in past posts ).

As was its president.

Which was expelled by the legit parliament elected in 2012, who had all the democratic right.

Reasons and consequence of the reasons.

Where do you see I play with the timeline?

The timeline is the one it is. In one side you have peaceful protesters that become aggressive when the police tried to evict them with violence ( as I told you I have seen with my own eyes in "LIVE" that kind of situations around Europe ).

What I haven't seen is people that armed with war weapons storm buildings, kidnap people, blow helicopters, etc.

If people in Maidan instead of peaceful protests for weeks, had instead opted for assault Kiev with war weapons, and create an insurrection I will be the first to condemn them and who ever supported them.

Are two kinds of behavior which are almost opposite.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 17:53 ----------

( our favorite propaganda media RT ) Donetsk People's Republic asks Moscow to consider its accession with Russia

Donetsk People's Republic has proclaimed itself a sovereign state and has asked Moscow to consider its accession with Russia, the Republic’s council said.

“We, the people of Donetsk, based on results of the May 11 referendum and the declaration of sovereignty of the Donetsk People’s Republic, declare that from now on DPR is now a sovereign state,†Republic Co-Chairman Denis Pushilin said.

( more RT ) Village near Slavyansk attacked with artillery fire, casualties reported

The village of Andreevka near Slavyansk has come under artillery fire from Kiev forces, according to the representative of the self-defense forces, as quoted by RIA Novosti.

“There was an artillery attack. Houses have been destroyed. Cars are on fire. There are casualties, but the numbers aren’t known yet,†the representative said.

( The Guardian ) Russia calls for Ukraine dialogue between Kiev and regions

Russia has said it "respects" the results of independence referendums in eastern Ukraine, but has called for dialogue between the government in Kiev and the south-east regions of the country, suggesting that a Crimea-style annexation of the region for Moscow is not on the cards.

---------- Post added at 19:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

According to Spanish minister of Foreign Affairs the separatist situation in Catalonia is the same as in Donetsk:

( Europa Press, in spanish ) ( minister ) Margallo insists in comparing the separatist referendums in Ukraine and in Catalonia

( even made a "clever joke", saying that "if it quacks like a duck and swims like a duck it's a duck" )

[negah 26]

Which was expelled by the legit parliament elected in 2012, who had all the democratic right.

According to german Wikipedia the ousting of Yanukowich by the UA parliament was illegal according to ukrainian constitution.

As of Paragraph 108 of the ukrainian constitution a president can be removed from his position if:

- he wants to

- he has health issues preventing him from fullfilling his duty

- he dies

- due to impeachement trial

The last option requires high treason or other comparably heavy crime.

In that case an investigative commision of the Rada has to be established which will investigate the case and report to the constitutional court.

Then the parliament can vote for the ousting.

Such process has never taken place in case of Yanukowich.

Instead the official reason for his ousting is him leaving the country, which is not covered by the constitution.

According to english Wikipedia even the amount of required votes of 338 out of 450 was not reached, 328 parliamentaries voted for the ousting.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiktor_Janukowytsch#cite_note-32

Staatsrechtliche Aspekte der Absetzung von Janukowytsch[bearbeiten]

Inwieweit die Absetzung von Janukowytsch mit der ukrainischen Verfassung vereinbar und somit legal ist, ist fraglich und wird beispielsweise von russischer Seite bestritten.[29][30][31] Laut Artikel 108 sieht die ukrainische Verfassung, welche in einer Resolution des Parlaments für gültig befunden wurde (328 von insgesamt 450 Stimmen), nur vier mögliche Gründe für eine Absetzung vor: ein Rücktritt des Präsidenten, gesundheitliche Gründe, im Zuge eines Amtsenthebungsverfahrens oder durch Tod des Amtsinhabers. Eine Amtsenthebung kommt unter Artikel 111 bei Hochverrat und anderen schweren Verbrechen in Frage. Dazu muss jedoch eine Untersuchungskommission der Rada gebildet werden, die an das Verfassungsgericht berichtet. Wenn in diesem Prüfverfahren die Voraussetzungen als gegeben erachtet werden, könnte die Rada mit einer Dreiviertelmehrheit den Präsidenten des Amtes entheben.[32][29] Ein solcher Prozess wurde im Fall Janukowytsch nicht durchlaufen. Der vom Parlament genannte Grund, dass er durch Verlassen des Landes seine Präsidentschaft verwirkt hätte, ist in der Verfassung nicht vorgesehen. Inwiefern die Amtsenthebung rechtmäßig war, ist umstritten. Nach der einen Meinung von politischen Beobachter ist Janukowytsch auch über die Entscheidung der Rada vom 23. Februar hinaus der rechtmäßige Präsident der Ukraine, während er dies nach anderer Meinung politischer Beobachter nicht ist.[31][30]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#Constitutionality_challenged

Constitutionality challenged[edit]

According to Daisy Sindelar from Radio Free Europe, the impeachment may have not followed the procedure provided by the constitution enacted during Yanukovych's administration: "t is not clear that the hasty February 22 vote upholds constitutional guidelines, which call for a review of the case by Ukraine's Constitutional Court and a three-fourths majority vote by the Verkhovna Rada -- i.e., 338 lawmakers." The vote, as analyzed by Sindelar, had ten votes less than those required by the constitutional guidelines. However, Sindelar noted in the same article that, "That discrepancy may soon become irrelevant, with parliament expected to elect a new prime minister no later than February 24." The decision to remove Yanukovich was supported by 328 deputies.[a][12][13][14][160]

[mistyronin 1181]

According to german Wikipedia the ousting of Yanukowich by the UA parliament was illegal according to ukrainian constitution.

That would be right with the previous Ukraine's Constitution... but due to the agreement between the EU, Russia and Ukraine to solve the crisis of Maidan, on day 21th of February, the Ukrainian parliament passed a law on the return to the Constitution of 2004 which allowed the impeachment of Yanukovich.

Was supported by the MPs of the Party of the Regions of Yanukovich.

( Interfax ) Ukrainian parliament reinstates 2004 Constitution

The Ukrainian parliament has passed a law on the return to the Constitution of 2004.

A total of 386 MPs voted for the relevant law on Friday, an Interfax-Ukraine correspondent reports.

The document was passed under simplified procedure without any decision of the relevant committee and was passed in the first and the second reading in one voting.

It was supported by 140 MPs of the Regions Party, 89 MPs of the Batkivschyna Party, 40 MPs of the UDAR Party, 32 of the Communist Party, and 50 independent lawmakers.

The 2004 Constitution, which was in effect until 2010, limits the presidential powers and broadens those of the parliament and government.

[negah 26]

That would be right with the previous Ukraine's Constitution... but due to the agreement between the EU, Russia and Ukraine to solve the crisis of Maidan, on day 21th of February, the Ukrainian parliament passed a law on the return to the Constitution of 2004 which allowed the impeachment of Yanukovich.

Which does not change anything since both constitutions have the same law regarding the impeachement process.

http://www.rferl.org/content/was-yanukovychs-ouster-constitutional/25274346.html

The 1996 and the 2004 constitutions are uniform when it comes to the reasons for removing a president,

with Article 111 stating the parliament has the right to initiate a procedure of impeachment "if he commits treason or other crime."

[Tonci87 163]

- he wants to

Does running away and fleeing the country count as that?

Also I remember he had to visit a hospital in Russia, clearly he had health issues.

[mistyronin 1181]

Which does not change anything since both constitutions have the same law regarding the impeachement process.

http://www.rferl.org/content/was-yanukovychs-ouster-constitutional/25274346.html

Basically treason is what the parliament argued for removing him.

Just read the statement make by Yanukovich own party, Party of the Regions:

( Party of the Regions website): Address of the PARTY OF REGIONS faction to compatriots

Ukraine is betrayed, and people were set at loggerheads. All responsibility for this lies on Yanukovych and people closest to him. We, the PARTY OF REGIONS faction in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and our party members, strongly condemn the criminal orders that led to the loss of human lives, an empty treasury, huge debts, shame in the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the world, bringing our country on the brink of abyss, threat of split and the loss of national sovereignty. Any attempts to influence the situation, to persuade the President were not heard. Party with million of members actually became a hostage of one corrupt Family.

PARTY OF REGIONS states that difference of opinions, and sometimes - differences in ideology are not an obstacle to work together for the benefit of Ukraine. There are different views, but we have one goal - united, strong and independent Ukraine.

We condemn the escape and cowardice of Yanukovych.

We condemn the betrayal.

We condemn the criminal orders, which crossed up the common people, soldiers and officers.

But attempts of total intimidation and mob law, destabilization of the situation in the regions is not acceptable in a democratic society.

BTW look who supports the Party of the Regions:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e1/Ukrainian_parliamentary_election_2007_(PoR)v.PNG (609 kB)

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:37 ----------

( Vice News ) Eastern Ukraine Apparently Votes "Yes" to Joining Russia

Moscow has said that the result must be implemented "without any recurrence of violence, through dialogue between representatives of Kiev, Donetsk and Luhansk."

Last week Putin called on the rebels to postpone the referendum, which then went ahead anyway. The Russian president has adopted an increasingly diplomatic tone of late, fueling concern that he may be paving the way to send "peace-keeping" troops into the region. A Putin-backed putsch led to the annexation of Crimea by Moscow in March.

Edited May 12, 2014 by MistyRonin
orthography

[arttem 1]

Where do you see I play with the timeline?

I don't wanna to repeat how our West friends understand the problem. Deep or not too deep. I just post some facts which is not a secret.

Let's look in to Ukraine government archive. http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/1286-12

THE LAW OF UKRAINE. About all-Ukrainian and local referendums. 03.07.91 N 1287-XII (supplemented to 6/11/2012 â„– 5475-VI "About all-Ukrainian and local referendums")

<....To ensure democracy and direct participation citizens in the management of state and local Affairs in Ukraine, referendum can be held. The referendum is a way

adoption by citizens of Ukraine by voting for laws of Ukraine, other solutions on important issues of national and of local importance...>

<...Solutions, adopted by local referendum have supreme legal force the decisions of the Councils of people's deputies in the territory of which it is held...>

<.... Laws, other decisions adopted by referendum, don't need any approval of the state bodies and can be cancelled or changed only in the order stipulated by the present Law.

Ok. Nice law.

In april of 1994 Lugansk and Donetsk region held a referendum. We have a scans of Donbas region newspaper with results.

http://dosie.com.ua/uploads/posts/2014-03/1395966406_donbass-gazeta-full.jpg (114 kB)

What is written in newspaper?:

1. "Do you agree that in Constitution of Ukraine, the Federal-land system of Ukraine (Federalization) should be provided and secured?"

The results in the Donetsk region:

Yes - 79,69%

Against - 15,02%

Invalid ballots - of 5.29%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 84,14%.

2. "Do you agree that the Constitution of Ukraine confirmed the functioning of the Russian language as the state language of Ukraine along with the state Ukrainian language?"

The results in the Donetsk region:

Yes - 87,16%

Against - 8.54%of

Invalid ballots - 4,30%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 91,08%.

The results in Lugansk region:

Yes - 90,38%

Against - 5,04%

Invalid ballots - 4,58%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 94,72%.

3. "Do you agree that in the territory of Donetsk (Luhansk) region language of work, office work and documentation, as well as of education and science was the Russian language along with Ukrainian?"

The results in the Donetsk region:

Yes - 88,98%

Against - 6,86%

Invalid ballots - 4,15%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 92,84%.

The results in Lugansk region:

Yes - 90,91%

Against - 4,51%

Invalid ballots - 4,58%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 95,27%.

4. "Are you for the signing of the Charter of the CIS (SNG), the full participation of Ukraine in the economic Union, the Interparliamentary Assembly of the CIS States?" (in 1994 it was synonymous with Eurasian integration).

The results in the Donetsk region:

Yes - 88,72%.

Against - 6,82%

Invalid ballots - 4,45%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 92,86%.

The results in Lugansk region:

Yes - 90,74%

Against - 4,54%

Invalid ballots - 4,72%

Excluding invalid votes: for - 95,24%.

The turnout was 72% in the Donetsk region and 75% in Luhansk.

So, people just use that law. And what? And nothing. In 1994 there was not any mass internet. So referendum was simply ignored.

Aha. Everybody forget about that little fact. But not the government of Ukraine. They remember who and how voted in 1994 at East. And they don't need any referendums, because they know the result. For that, they did simple thing:

RESOLUTION from 6 March 2014 â„– 35 "On some issues relating to compliance with Ukrainian legislation and referendums"

http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/v0035359-14

<...But today the law, which shall determine the organization and procedure for conducting a local referendum is missing, since the Law of Ukraine "On all-Ukrainian and local referendums" according to paragraph 4 of section XIII "Final provisions" of the law of Ukraine "On national referendum" on November 6, 2012 No. 5475-VI abrogated...>

Bravo!!!! No law for referendum's - no problems. Everybody now terrorist and separatist. Amazing! You can invite OSCE, NATO, US, Finland as observers and referendum will be illegitimate anyhow. No law... Sry guys.

P.S. Referendum in 1994 according to newspaper was advisory. Regions was trying to speak with Kiev peaceful.

P.S.S. Ukrainian legislation does not provide for holding regional referendum's, it was controlled by local referendum's law.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ArtTem

[blu3sman 11]

Let's look in to Ukraine government archive. http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/1286-12

THE LAW OF UKRAINE. About all-Ukrainian and local referendums. 03.07.91 N 1287-XII (supplemented to 6/11/2012 â„– 5475-VI "About all-Ukrainian and local referendums")

Did you read what questions are supposed to be decided by regional referendum and what by country-wide?

In april of 1994 Lugansk and Donetsk region held a referendum. We have a scans of Donbas region newspaper with results.

What is written in newspaper?

It is written about regional poll. A usual poll. Is there a single word about referendum and any supposed consequences? No. Did you just lie? Yes.

So, people just use that law. And what? And nothing. In 1994 there was not any mass internet. So referendum was simply ignored.

Aha. Everybody forget about that little fact. But not the government of Ukraine. They remember who and how voted in 1994 at East. And they don't need any referendums, because they know the result. For that, they did simple thing:

RESOLUTION from 6 March 2014 â„– 35 "On some issues relating to compliance with Ukrainian legislation and referendums"

http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/v0035359-14

<...But today the law, which shall determine the organization and procedure for conducting a local referendum is missing, since the Law of Ukraine "On all-Ukrainian and local referendums" according to paragraph 4 of section XIII "Final provisions" of the law of Ukraine "On national referendum" on November 6, 2012 No. 5475-VI abrogated...>

Bravo!!!! No law for referendum's - no problems. Everybody now terrorist and separatist. Amazing! You can invite OSCE, NATO, US, Finland as observers and referendum will be illegitimate anyhow. No law... Sry guys.

Bla bla, RT hysteria based on false facts and manipulation.

[arttem 1]

Did you read what questions are supposed to be decided by regional referendum and what by country-wide?

It is written about regional poll. A usual poll. Is there a single word about referendum and any supposed consequences? No. Did you just lie? Yes.

Bla bla, RT hysteria based on false facts and manipulation.

You kidding? How RT and your archive connected? Read carefull what you read. Ofcourse it written about regional poll according to regional referendums law! It was advisory. And i'm speaking about regions Lugansk and Donetsk.

To enhance your knowledges:

The nature of the legal force of the decision adopted at a referendum, there are consultative and mandatory (compulsory) referendum. Consultative referendum is conducted to ascertain public opinion on any issue, the final decision on which accepts the authority initiating the referendum. The decision, made at a consultative referendum is not binding.

So about that newspaper is talking. Mechanically it's a full referendum. With a ballots and votes. Which was maded under "About all-Ukrainian and local referendums." 03.07.91 N 1287-XII Law.

And please show me information from my post on RT.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ArtTem

[blu3sman 11]

You kidding? How RT and your archive connected? Read carefull what you read. Ofcourse it written about regional poll according to regional referendums law! It was advisory. And i'm speaking about regions Lugansk and Donetsk.

From the law

Article 6. Issues raised at local referendums

At local referendums may be imposed matters related legislation of Ukraine under the jurisdiction of local governments relevant administrative units , and issues of early termination of the relevant Council MPs and her head.

Exclusively local referendums in the relevant administrative units address issues of naming or renaming village councils , towns , cities, regions, areas ; question of uniting in a single of the same name administrative units that share a common administrative center ; question of changing the basic level of local governments in rural areas; question of reorganization or Elimination of public pre-schools , as well as preschools , created by former agricultural collective and state farms .

{Part two of Article 6 was amended according to Law

N 2628 -III (2628-14) of 11.07.2001 }

At local referendums are not outside the question of the abolition of legitimate decisions of higher bodies of state power and government; matters within the jurisdiction of the court and prosecution ; issues related to the election, appointment and dismissal of officials within the competence of the relevant local Soviet and its executive and administrative authorities.

This results in

Article 6-1. Restrictions on referendums

Referendums on matters not related to

jurisdiction of the Republic of Crimea and local and regional

government administrative units in Ukraine

not allowed, and the results of such referendums are recognized

deemed to have no legal effect.

And please show me information from my post on RT.

I meant the style of your arguments.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Blu3sman

[arttem 1]

From the law

This results in

I'm speaking with the wall? I'm not interested in part of document about Crimea.

Repeat it specialy for you:

...But today the law, which shall determine the organization and procedure for conducting a local referendum is missing, since the Law of Ukraine "On all-Ukrainian and local referendums" according to paragraph 4 of section XIII "Final provisions" of the law of Ukraine "On national referendum" on November 6, 2012 No. 5475-VI abrogated...

Однако на ÑÐµÐ³Ð¾Ð´Ð½Ñ Ð·Ð°ÐºÐ¾Ð½, который должен определÑÑ‚ÑŒ организацию и порÑдок Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð²ÐµÐ´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ Ð¼ÐµÑтного референдума, отÑутÑтвует, поÑкольку Закон Украины "О вÑеукраинÑком и меÑтных референдумах" ÑоглаÑно пункту 4 раздела XIII "Заключительные положениÑ" Закона Украины "О вÑеукраинÑком референдуме" от 6 ноÑÐ±Ñ€Ñ 2012 â„– 5475-VI признано утратившим Ñилу.

http://zakon4.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/v0035359-14

[blu3sman 11]

I'm speaking with the wall? I'm not interested in part of document about Crimea.

Did you pay attention?

..and local and regional

government administrative units..

Repeat it specialy for you:

Yes, the law is abrogated. Today there is no law that deals with local referendums. And?