Ukraine General

[mistyronin 1181]

But why Pavel Gubarev makes the poll if he already knows the result.

( RT ) Lugansk and Donetsk regions vote for self-determination

The people’s governor of the Donetsk region, Pavel Gubarev, told journalists that Donetsk and Lugansk will emerge as new legal entities as a result of the referendum.

“The referendum for us is about creating a new state paradigm,†he said.

- - -

Nazism is not some plain digits and numbers. It is not exact number of camps or dead people. It is ideology. Killing all who does not support your ideas. Opressing other languages. Thinking of destruction of nearby country.

Killing who does not support your ideas. But if Stalin killed millions of people that didn't support his ideas, is he nazi? He also oppressed other languages and destroyed a lot of countries and cultures.

Stalin did that, the Russian Tzars too, the Roman Empire, the Spanish Empire, and a long etc. were they all nazis? :rolleyes:

In fact you described the typical autocratic state. For example, look what countries are like that nowadays: North Korea, Syria... That are Russian allies ( so according to your definition, Russia is the main supporter of Nazi countries ).

I think you should study again who the nazis were and what kind of politics and actions did.

Your poisoned words are an insult to all the people who fought and/or suffered the Nazis. You should be ashamed.

Edited May 11, 2014 by MistyRonin
orthography

[arttem 1]

What i feel is that you Russian guys don't want to say here what you really think, about Ukraine not being a country, about all the "Russian speaking guys" needed to be reunited to mother Russia, wherever they may live, etc.

Please keep in mind. That if i start think such way. (because i don't think so) I'll post it here.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Nice scarf. Odessa football club.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ArtTem

[Rain^^ 10]

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 PM ----------

Obama and his friends from EU say that this people terrorists

Donetsk

Mariupol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5aEbPkDZQ8

Edited May 11, 2014 by [FRL]Myke

[blu3sman 11]

500 000 city has 4 ​polling stations. Nice technology for an impressive TV-picture.

[spooky lynx 73]

No clue why they admire Putin ?

Dunno. European rightists may see something good in Putin, their Russian comrades don't. So at least because of this your parallel between far right groups and Putin is irrelevant.

What i feel is that you Russian guys don't want to say here what you really think, about Ukraine not being a country, about all the "Russian speaking guys" needed to be reunited to mother Russia, wherever they may live, etc.

I think Ukraine is a country but totally failed one.

BTW why do you speak about reunion of all the "Russian speaking guys" like about something bad? Especially if they live nearby.

Look at 0:39 The hole in the sideskirt is from an RPG. Quite hard to get that kind of isolated damge just from driving. Last time I checked BMPs couldn´t drive sideways.

Do you see how black the roadwheels are? Everything is full of oil, even the ground. The RPG has hit very close to the engine and must have ruptured the oil tank. It also looks as if the oil has burned. The whole side of the vehicle is black, compared to the greenish color of the other side.

That's definitely not RPG hit. Damaged piece is of ellipse shape with much of paint scratched instead of small round hole with almost untouched paint.

Then, black side is result of diesel exhaust. Especially when engine is old and in bad condition (how BMPs are cared you may see - from nine vehicles used two stopped, one evacuated by another BMP and second abandoned).

This is RPG hit:

http://vif2ne.ru/nvk/forum/files/Bauris/(090908103629)_abr_bortbashni_-_rpgpenetration.jpg

http://memoriesnorth.narod.ru/bmp684.jpg

I think you should study again who the nazis were and what kind of politics and actions did.

Your poisoned words are an insult to all the people who fought and/or suffered the Nazis. You should be ashamed.

Wow... Somebody tries to teach me, living in the city that was bombed by nazis and in the country that suffered most from nazis, named untermensche by nazis, whose grandfathers, being teenagers, went volunteer to the front, who are they? Brilliant... Just brilliant.

Edit: Israelis from "Aliya batallion" organization say about will to go to Ukraine and fight against nazism.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[mistyronin 1181]

Wow... Somebody tries to teach me, living in the city that was bombed by nazis and in the country that suffered most from nazis, named untermensche by nazis, whose grandfathers, being teenagers, went volunteer to the front, who are they? Brilliant... Just brilliant.

You disrispect your family and city memories calling nazi to anyone you hate and giving such broad definitions.

If you did really know who the nazis were and what they did you would not use that appelative so freely.

So please inform yourself properly, visit the concentration camps and battlefronts. And take care of the words you use. It's really offensive for most of us.

[batto 17]

Another civilian shooting, 1 hour ago. Go to liveleak.com to see it. It should be on top now. Seriously guys, you should abandon your camps and stop using double meter. You sound ridiculous (martial law? wtf?).

[mistyronin 1181]

You sound ridiculous (martial law? wtf?).

Your opinion.

Do you understand what Martial law is?

Martial law

Martial law is usually imposed on a temporary basis when the civilian government or civilian authorities fail to function effectively (e.g., maintain order and security, or provide essential services). In full-scale martial law, the highest-ranking military officer would take over, or be installed, as the military governor or as head of the government, thus removing all power from the previous executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government.

Martial law can be used by governments to enforce their rule over the public. Such incidents may occur after a coup d'état (such as Thailand in 2006); when threatened by popular protest (China, Tiananmen Square protests of 1989); to suppress political opposition (Poland in 1981); or to stabilize insurrections or perceived insurrections (Canada, The October Crisis of 1970). Martial law may be declared in cases of major natural disasters; however, most countries use a different legal construct, such as a state of emergency.

Ukrainian Gov. has already stated that can't control the Eastern part of the country by usual means, so it's the logic step IMO. I think we all agree that what is happening there is an insurrection.

[batto 17]

Ukrainian Gov. has already stated that can't control the Eastern part of the country by usual means, so it's the logic step IMO. I think we all agree that what is happening there is an insurrection.

Exactly same logic could have been applied in protests in Kiev.

[mistyronin 1181]

Exactly same logic could have been applied in protests in Kiev.

Other countries have done it in similar cases.

But IMO you should not compare violent demonstrations were people are armed with sticks, stones, molotov cocktails and pellet guns ( that can be seen in most of Europe ), with a full blown insurrection by a militia armed with war weapons, armored vehicles, rocket launchers like Grad, AT and AA weapons, that are able to neutralize Hind Helicopters, a BMP and so on.

Doesn't make much sense. But feel free.

[batto 17]

But IMO you should not compare violent demonstrations were people are armed with sticks, stones, molotov cocktails and pellet guns ( that can be seen in most of Europe ), with a full blown insurrection by a militia armed with war weapons, armored vehicles, rocket launchers like Grad, AT and AA weapons, that are able to neutralize Hind Helicopters, a BMP and so on.

Why not? Because the latter needs army to protect civilians? Oh wait...

[mistyronin 1181]

Why not? Because the latter needs army to protect civilians? Oh wait...

Because they are two completely different issues IMO.

One should be solved by usual police means and dialog. And the other is a military issue.

Use the martial law for a civilian public order issue ( like Maidan protests ) IMO would be like killing a fly with a bazooka, can work, but its by all means excessive.

For the same way I would see excessive if the Ukraine Army used an Atomic bomb in Slaviansk.

Certain pro-Russian groups decided to take weapons and organize a mini war ( that may grow to full one ), it's obvious that the Ukrainian Police lack of means. Even the army is getting some troubles due to civilians interfering. The martial law would solve that.

I see the martial law mainly for military issues. Although it's true that sometimes can be useful to recover extreme cases of civil public order ( like the San Francisco Earthquake ).

[arttem 1]

http://glagol.in.ua/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/maydan22-01-14-01-LiveJournal-stainlesstlrat.png-large.jpg (119 kB)

http://std3.ru/96/fd/1398187303-96fd204804adcca8f7ddba15b480edf3.jpeg (127 kB)

[arttem 1]

http://mtdata.ru/u19/photo7791/20669965072-0/huge.jpeg (214 kB)

http://ua-banker.com.ua/uploads/files/537660_14.jpg (451 kB)

Yes. I know that i don't understand anything in BB guns. Without comments.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ArtTem

[batto 17]

Because they are two completely different issues IMO.

One should be solved by usual police means and dialog. And the other is a military issue.

Use the martial law for a civilian public order issue ( like Maidan protests ) IMO would be like killing a fly with a bazooka, can work, but its by all means excessive.

For the same way I would see excessive if the Ukraine Army used an Atomic bomb in Slaviansk.

It's all irrelevant to me.

Certain pro-Russian groups decided to take weapons and organize a mini war ( that may grow to full one ), it's obvious that the Ukrainian Police lack of means. Even the army is getting some troubles due to civilians interfering. The martial law would solve that.

Certain anti-Yanukovych groups decided to take weapons and organize a mini war ( that may grow to full one ), it's obvious that the Ukrainian Police lack of means. Even the Berkut is getting some troubles due to civilians interfering. The martial law would solve that.

I'm not trying to blame or side with anyone because I know little. But why was Kiev insurrection good and why is Donetsk insurrection bad?

Edited May 11, 2014 by batto

[arttem 1]

http://bm.img.com.ua/berlin/storage/news/orig/c/f4/b76c8ae1f251d4c4db4f8e206408ef4c.jpg (112 kB)

http://rusplt.ru/netcat_files/userfiles2/Kiev_Online_gun600.jpg (106 kB)

http://img11.nnm.me/0/0/d/9/9/930a005eb4d18010c762a8ccc69_prev.png (284 kB)

http://img11.nnm.me/5/5/0/0/5/f040f87d9f50b69b1caea90cd6e_prev.png (236 kB)

Middle guy.

I like that picture. Nice berets.

After picture above. I can believe in any picture.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ArtTem

[lesscubes 1]

Pistols and double barreled shotguns might as well be bb guns when your opponents have kevlar and AK74's...

The one with the US Army trooper is interesting- I can't zoom in enough to read his rank tab. The facial scruff on the other hand? Dudes NOT US Army- someone playing dressup. If it were a US soldier he's a real tool for hanging out with someone with a Nazi golden eagle on his chest. Notice the picture immediately below has one guy in UCP pants as well- they're pretty common aren't they?

[mistyronin 1181]

Yes. I know that i don't understand anything in BB guns. Without comments.

First, pellet guns are not the same as BB guns ( although BB guns are a part of the pellet guns family ).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gun

An air gun (also called pellet gun) is any variety of projectile weapons that propels projectiles by means of compressed air or other gas, in contrast to firearms which use a propellant charge. Both the rifle and pistol forms (air rifle and air pistol) typically fire metallic projectiles, either pellets, or BBs. Certain types of air guns, usually rifles, may also fire arrows. Airsoft guns fire plastic projectiles.

Second, half of your images are hardly situated in the Maidan protests ( for example no AKs were seen in the protesters side ).

Ok, you proved that a couple civilian shotguns were used. Now compare that with war weapons like: AT, AA, BMDs, Grad rocket systems, etc. :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to blame or side with anyone because I know little. But why was Kiev insurrection good and why is Donetsk insurrection bad?

Good or bad? That depend's on each one code of values.

But Maidan protests "ended" with a change of government voted by the legit parliament of Ukraine, elected democratically in 2012; and the announcement of elections in may. It was not exactly what Maidan protesters wanted, but they seem to accept it.

BTW Maidan protesters were completely peaceful, and only wanted to keep their camp in the center of the town. The violence started when the police tried to evict them.

While Donetsk insurrection, has few popular legitimization ( they are trying to gain it, with the faked referendum ). They took war weapons without even waiting for the elections in may, assaulting buildings with violence, kidnapping journalists, etc.

When they could have voted a candidate that could defend their rights democratically. As its done in the rest of the world.

The funny thing, is that a lot of groups in Europe could use the same excuses as pro-Russian insurgents to take war weapons and start rebellions. But they don't, because they are peaceful people that trust in democracy.

[negah 26]

When they could have voted a candidate that could defend their rights democratically. As its done in the rest of the world.

Yes because other pro-russian president candidates were beaten and/or threatened and have finally withdrawn their candidateship from the elections.

That way you can be sure that Donezk region would never get their represantative, but at least they tried. How democratic.

[arttem 1]

Ok, you proved that a couple civilian shotguns were used. Now compare that with war weapons like: AT, AA, BMDs, Grad rocket systems, etc. :rolleyes:

I did not prove anything. I'm not in court and you are not a judge. I've just collected interesting photos in one place.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Pistols and double barreled shotguns might as well be bb guns when your opponents have kevlar and AK74's...

____________________________________________________________________________________________

The facial scruff on the other hand? Dudes NOT US Army- someone playing dressup.

Yep. We understand... And all that i typed in post, was: "I like that picture. Nice berets."

Afro-american guy dancing nice.

Smby still don't understand: "Never play any games near the forest where bears is sleeping, they don't like noise."

Edited May 12, 2014 by ArtTem

[Tonci87 163]

Misty didn´t even mention the main distinction between the Maidan protests and the current uprising. The Maidan protests were mainly concentrated to this town square and it´s sourroundings. At the end someother cities joined in. Now we have an uprising across two regions in many big cities. Martial law in those cities would make sense just to get the civilians out of harms way. Separatists couldn´t hide in crowds any more and couldn´t use civilians as shields.

@Spooky You have no idea what nazis are, seriously. Please educate yourself. My familiy suffered under them too, only to be labeled as fashists half a century later by a government that wanted to exterminate a major part of its population. You have no idea what you are talking about.

@ArtTem You post pictures that are not connected to the actuall events only to imply something. You must have learned from RT. Stop that. You have been banned from this thread already once and you don´t want to be banned for flame baiting again, do you?

[arttem 1]

@ArtTem You post pictures that are not connected to the actuall events only to imply something. You must have learned from RT. Stop that. You have been banned from this thread already once and you don´t want to be banned for flame baiting again, do you?

To be banned or not to be banned! That's the question of the life.... But not for me.

Read careful. All pictures was posted as answer with quote. Or as an answer for Misty's peaceful BB Guns on Maidan.

"Don't tell me what to do and i will not tell you what you must do." Old Russian proverb.

[Tonci87 163]

OK then go ahead and explain the conenction between these pictures

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2688322&viewfull=1#post2688322

and what has happened on the Maidan. Please also provide sources.

[arttem 1]

OK then go ahead and explain the conenction between these pictures

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?173470-Ukraine-General&p=2688322&viewfull=1#post2688322

and what has happened on the Maidan. Please also provide sources.

Pistols and double barreled shotguns might as well be bb guns when your opponents have kevlar and AK74's...

You don't see leescubes post? You don't understand what he is typing?

And you never seen bullets for double barreled shotguns? And what damage they provide?

It's not my problem.

[mistyronin 1181]

Or as an answer for Misty's peaceful BB Guns on Maidan.

So if you were talking about the weapons in Maidan why you post photos from last month or march? Saying that were from Maidan... You don't make much sense.

That's why you posted this one from last month? ( probably Odessa )

Or this one from march?

This one also from last month:

It's was a good try.