Ukraine General

[spooky lynx 73]

To me these are more reasons why the pro-Russian violent militias should stop their insurrection and work to improve the country.

Saddest thing is that those who rule the Rada and ministries don't have any will to improve anything in Ukraine. They have quite another task. So so-called 'pro-Russian violent militias' (but why are they violent? They hadn't burnt their rivals alive, hadn't suffocated them or tortured unlike right sector or other far right thugs) have noone to cooperate with. Especially after Odessa and Mariupol massacres and siege of Slaviansk and Kramatorsk. Too many people say like "United Ukraine died at 2nd of May" reminding what had happened in Odessa. Even 'corrupted dictator' Yanuk hadn't used armed troops, armor and helicopters against his opponents. Current regime does. And that's why noone believes in possibility of real dialogue with it. Especially after such phrases of junta officials (B.Filatov) like "Promise to them (federalists and pro-Russians) everything. Speak with them gladly. We'll hang them all later".

[ProfTournesol 956]

Blabla. It's not acceptable to let armed militias rule part of the country, that's not hard to understand. Putin would crush that into blood, civilians included.

Ukrainian people wants unity, even if denied by a handful of extremists :

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG_14.05.09_UrkraineMap_Chart_6.6in.png

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

Edited May 10, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[negah 26]

Ukrainian people wants unity, even if denied by a handful of extremists :

http://www.pewglobal.org/files/2014/05/PG_14.05.09_UrkraineMap_Chart_6.6in.png

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/despite-concerns-about-governance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/

Those surveys were conducted before the Odessa And Mariupol massacres.

Besides:

“I only believe in statistics that I doctored myselfâ€

― (supposedly) Winston Churchill

[ProfTournesol 956]

Those surveys were conducted before the Odessa And Mariupol massacres.

True.

Besides:

“I only believe in statistics that I doctored myselfâ€

― (supposedly) Winston Churchill

As you seem to believe RT, you may want to believe that survey that cannot honestly be contested and made by a serious research center (Method : http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08/methods-in-detail/.)

---------- Post added at 23:39 ---------- Previous post was at 23:21 ----------

On a less serious level, the Ukrainian singer at Eurovision song contest, Mariya Yaremchuk who was the first to perform on stage

Dunno after what that guy is running, maybe he's one of our favorite forum hamsters...

[mistyronin 1181]

On a less serious level, the Ukrainian singer at Eurovision song contest, Mariya Yaremchuk who was the first to perform on stage

Don't show the winner please. Which was majorly voted in Eastern Europe. And Russia was booed.

To me Sverige should have won, or Norge!

Edited May 10, 2014 by MistyRonin

[Tonci87 163]

Judging by the thick layer of dust on the floor and furniture that building has not been used for a long time.

I agree it doesn´t look used

[mistyronin 1181]

Putin is making Russia to be booed around.

( The Independent ) Eurovision 2014: Russia booed by crowd during final

As the rest of Europe watched on, Russia was booed a number of times during the Eurovision Song Contest tonight.When the country “phoned in†to deliver its top three votes, the crowd could be heard booing the Russian spokesman as she attempted to read out the country’s results from Moscow.

After Russia delivered its vote – giving a full 12 points to neighbouring Belarus, 10 to Azerbaijan and eight to Armenia – the crowd could still be heard booing.

Countries who voted for Russia, including Armenia and Belarus, were also booed when delivering points to the country, which has been at the centre of criticism over its handling of the crisis in Ukraine and its controversial anti-gay propaganda

That already happened in the semi-finals:

( TIME ) Russian Singers Booed At Eurovision Song Contest Semi-Finals

European backlash against Russia appeared to spill over into the biggest song contest in the world on Tuesday, as Russian contestants the Tolmachevy Sisters were booed by the Eurovision Song Contest audience in Denmark when they qualified for the competition’s finals.

[negah 26]

Yeah those russian singers are also Putins agents and are to blame for Ukraine crisis. So the crowd are heroes for booing at them.

I dont say that russians shouldve won but seeing how that... "thing" has won esc you realize how decadent and pervert europe has become.

As Vilas said tolerance means something should be tolerated not praised.

We are on the road to repeat the mistakes of the Western Roman Empire in its last days. Only this time its Russians and Chinese instead of Germanic tribes and Huns.

[spooky lynx 73]

Blabla. It's not acceptable to let armed militias rule part of the country, that's not hard to understand. Putin would crush that into blood, civilians included.

In case of Syria and Libya it's acceptable accordoing to official opinion of EU.

Ukrainian people wants unity, even if denied by a handful of extremists :

- according to face-to-face interviews between April 5-23. But, as I've said, after Odessa and Mariupol many people changed their opinion.

BTW if even Washington-based organization says that

For their part, Crimeans seem content with their annexation by Russia. Overwhelming majorities say the March 16th referendum was free and fair (91%) and that the government in Kyiv ought to recognize the results of the vote (88%).

-seems someone telling that referendum is not fair and made at gunpoint is not right.

[negah 26]

In case of Syria and Libya it's acceptable accordoing to official opinion of EU.

Kosovo is another great example of western double standarts.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-krise-400-us-soeldner-von-academi-kaempfen-gegen-separatisten-a-968745.html

According to this article, about 400 Academi (former Blackwater) mercenaries are fighting on Kievs side.

This information was confirmed by the BND on 29th April (german CIA) after the US government denied this information (which was spread by russian RIA Novosti on 7th April originally) claiming someone is trying to start hysteria.

The question now is who is paying them, since Ukraine is pretty much bankrupt.

[spooky lynx 73]

Benya Kolomoisky and other Maidan chiefs have enough cash to pay for mercenaries.

[mistyronin 1181]

In case of Syria and Libya it's acceptable accordoing to official opinion of EU.

It may seem obvious to many, but I see not for all. Syria now and Libya before were dictatorships, Ukraine is a legit democracy ( more or less corrupted ).

Kosovo is another great example of western double standarts.

About the Kosovo's case, also was quite obvious the hate campaign and the massacres done by the Serbs, that were also done before in Bosnia.

But if you consider that dictators and people that commit crimes against the humanity must be respected, you are on your right.

Besides that interventions were decided in the UN, or by a large collective of countries.

[ProfTournesol 956]

In case of Syria and Libya it's acceptable accordoing to official opinion of EU.

- according to face-to-face interviews between April 5-23. But, as I've said, after Odessa and Mariupol many people changed their opinion.

BTW if even Washington-based organization says that

-seems someone telling that referendum is not fair and made at gunpoint is not right.

"Washington based" doesn't mean anything (apart that your mind is stuck in the 1950's). It happens that in some countries, some research centers are free, serious and following scientific rules. It's pretty obvious by reading the whole research on Ukraine. I know you're not used to that, that's sad.

About Crimean referendum, yes it wasn't fair because it was made at gunpoint. I always said here that the result would probably have been the same in other circumstances, but the way it was done shows how Putin doesn't even try to keep the minimum democratic rules.

About "many people have changed their opinions", that's probably true, but i'm waiting to see the next believable poll about that. And not only RT propaganda.

[mistyronin 1181]

[spooky lynx 73]

It may seem obvious to many, but I see not for all. Syria now and Libya before were dictatorships, Ukraine is a legit democracy ( more or less corrupted ).

They are countries first of all. With internationally recognized governments and borders. And some months before Libyan campaign Qaddafi was welcomed in EU. But as I see if one group of countries calls other one 'dictatorship' it gives them right to do whatever they want - disrespect of territorial integrity, support and arming of opposition, direct military help to opposition etc. There's no any word in international laws or treaties stating that country named 'dictatorship' does not deserve normal treatment and should become another proving ground for %colorname% revolution.

And now Ukraine is dictatorship too - just look how rada calmly votes for any law given to it with opressing all other parties except those which headed maidan.

And if you think ductatorships aren't worth respecting them, how about arming and supporting Shia opposition in Bahrain? Or help Western Sahara guys to fight Marocco dictatorship? Will it be good decision?

"Washington based" doesn't mean anything (apart that your mind is stuck in the 1950's). It happens that in some countries, some research centers are free, serious and following scientific rules. It's pretty obvious by reading the whole research on Ukraine. I know you're not used to that, that's sad.

About Crimean referendum, yes it wasn't fair because it was made at gunpoint. I always said here that the result would probably have been the same in other circumstances, but the way it was done shows how Putin doesn't even try to keep the minimum democratic rules.

About "many people have changed their opinions", that's probably true, but i'm waiting to see the next believable poll about that. And not only RT propaganda.

Well, "Washington based" for you means surely free and "RT" is surely propaganda?:D So who is stuck in 1950's?

"Washington based" means it may fit interests of those who own this agency. I don't say it's good or bad, it's just obvious fact, and such things are common in this world. Yes, some research centers are free, but free from what or who, can you explain?

Crimean referendum made at gunpoint? Really? How about proofs depicting it, video, photos? Presence of Russian military in Crimea in general means nothing, because according to such logic decision of self-proclaimed Kosovo parliament is made at gunpoint of KFOR (NATO) - they were in Kosovo at that time, so I may say they influenced at those who were in parliament.

Edited May 11, 2014 by Spooky Lynx

[ProfTournesol 956]

Well, "Washington based" for you means surely free and "RT" is surely propaganda?:D So who is stuck in 1950's?

"Washington based" means it may fit interests of those who own this agency. I don't say it's good or bad, it's just obvious fact, and such things are common in this world. Yes, some research centers are free, but free from what or who, can you explain?.

Read your sentence again, and you'll how contradicting it may seem. For me, Washington based doesn't mean anything. For you it means evil west. So yes, you're stuck in the 50's, as Putin is, because it's an efficient way to unleash Russian nationalism, threatening European peace ATM.

All the words you're using show that : Nazis, Junta, etc, are mottos promoted by Russian governement to discredit everything that isn't fitting its goal.

Edited May 11, 2014 by ProfTournesol

[mistyronin 1181]

But as I see if one group of countries calls other one 'dictatorship' it gives them right to do whatever they want - disrespect of territorial integrity, support and arming of opposition, direct military help to opposition etc. And now Ukraine is dictatorship too - just look how rada calmly votes for any law given to it with opressing all other parties except those which headed maidan.

And if you think ductatorships aren't worth respecting them, how about arming and supporting Shia opposition in Bahrain? Or help Western Sahara guys to fight Marocco dictatorship? Will it be good decision?

I have never supported arming or support militarily any civilian groups, unless they are being massacred ( proved ); and there is a majority in the world countries.

And when a dictatorship, or any country BTW do that, the world countries can decide to intervene:

Libya: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1973 ( approved also by Russia )

Kosovo: United Nations Security Council Resolution 1244 ( also supported by Russia )

Syria: No intervention. Russia supports and arms the dictatorial Gov. EU & US support and arm certain democratic factions anti Gov.

Western Sahara: Was a Spanish mistake. Morocco BTW is a constitutional monarchy ( like UK or Sweden ).

[spooky lynx 73]

Read your sentence again, and you'll how contradicting it may seem. For me, Washington based doesn't mean anything. For you it means evil west. So yes, you're stuck in the 50's, as Putin is, because it's an efficient way to unleash Russian nationalism, threatening European peace ATM.

For me "Washington based" means "preserving interests of some US-based group of people". I don't say it's good or bad (yes I admit US may have its own interests at any point of Earth yet I may not agree with all of them to be preserved). It's just a fact that it has some influence taken. And looking at who is supported by US in Ukraine it's easy to make a conclusion that these polls are made to bring 'right picture' according to US (and Kiev) point of view. Be it the poll made by some Brasilian/Israeli/Swiss/Indian agency - I would say it's truly neutral. But US is involved in Ukrainian mess so any poll made by US-based agency is made to show 'right' point of view.

[negah 26]

Syria: No intervention. Russia supports and arms the dictatorial Gov. EU & US support and arm certain democratic factions anti Gov.

So Al-Qaida is a democratic faction now? Well US have raised them back in the 80' after all so they must be.

[mistyronin 1181]

So Al-Qaida is a democratic faction now? Well US have raised them back in the 80' after all so they must be.

In fact in Syria the US gave weapons to the factions that fight Al-Qaida. But keep it going, if you repeat RT words a lot of times I may start believing them.

[negah 26]

In fact in Syria the US gave weapons to the factions that fight Al-Qaida. But keep it going, if you repeat RT words a lot of times I may start believing them.

RT source #1

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washingtons-new-islamic-front-expanded-u-s-support-to-al-qaeda-rebels-in-syria/5361660

RT source #2

http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/09/20/is-america-helping-al-qaeda-take-over-syria/

RT source #3

http://www.globalresearch.ca/israel-supports-us-plan-to-arm-syria-al-qaeda-rebels-financing-terrorists-to-wage-the-global-war-on-terrorism/5369041

Yet another RT source

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/13/us-allies-let-funds-flow-to-al-qaeda-in-syria/?page=all

All those stuff was definately written by some poor folk who was held at gunpoint by Dark Lord Putin himself.

Or theyre just some conspiracy theorists who are telling you stories about alien abductions if they're not thinking of some other fairy tales atm.

I hate to write another quote/proverb here but:

"Where there's smoke, there's fire"

[spooky lynx 73]

Meanwhile today at night Slaviansk self-defence troops made preventive attack at NG in Karachun hill, using BMDs and Nona SPG. According to pro-fed commander NG ammo dump was hit and exploded after Nona round hit.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Self defence force attacking... wonderful.

[spooky lynx 73]

Self defence force attacking... wonderful.

Exactly. Like Israeli defence forces do sometimes. And South-African defence forces did.

BTW here is online translation from Donbass referendum.

[ProfTournesol 956]

Funny. Before their uprising, storming of official building, taking weapons etc, nobody was threatening them. Self defence my **.