[SP] Pilgrimage

[alky_lee 276]

I've taken a break from my current 1.83c mission to try out the 1.85c mission. It gave me random settings for the ones where I set them to random and kept the ones where I had set them. I found the settings log that showed what had been set and so far the mission would seem to bear that out. It has given me artillery on, realistic loot and no air patrols. I have landed in the same place as my current mission so it is easy to compare the two.

If I were to use the random settings properly, I wouldn't want to know what the settings were, so that things could surprise me. However, with getting realistic loot, it would be very easy to think that something had broken if you didb't know

[Rydygier 1302]

Well, I'm assuming, so for the final version user shouldn't be worried nor watchful, if something by a chance is not working. Should be confident, so all is working fine.

Personally, I have no preferred option here. I can do one way or another. Can't make it optional, it would require another setting, which is off the table, or another option for each setting, which would be simply too much IMO.

So - what do you say, people? Should log for random settings be preserved, or rather removed from final version, and kept only till then, for debugging?

[alky_lee 276]

My vote would be for the settings log to be kept. If I am confident that everything works, I wouldn't need to look at it. I only looked on this occasion to check that it had provided random settings.

If you use random settings for everything, there is always that chance when it turns everything off and you are running round the map by yourself. After a couple of days when you still have just have the SMG you may want to just check that everyone hasn't gone and left you behind

I think I would probably continue to set most things and use random settings for 2 or 3 things. Is there a way to ensure that random doesn't turn off that particular setting. I rather miss air patrols, and I would want the random setting to select the length of patrol instead of disabling it?

[Rydygier 1302]

Is there a way to ensure that random doesn't turn off that particular setting. I rather miss air patrols, and I would want the random setting to select the length of patrol instead of disabling it?

There isn't known to me, apart from adding more settings specifically to control that possibility or just excluding "disabled" states for all settings from the randomizing pool. I do not like both ways at all.

Shouldn't be a problem though. "Disabled" state is several times less probable than "enabled" with one or another intensity, so even, if it could happen once for a time, it will be not so problematic to restart. Of course, player must check settings log to determine, if that happened.

[Alex72 1]

I would love me some mod gear showing up in the loot boxes. I have that hidden identity mod (or called something similar) with lots of shemags, hoods, gasmasks etc. Never seen them come up in a box.

And if this was MP for 2 people... Mmmmm.

Anyway, voting for Make Arma Not War. ;)

[Rydygier 1302]

I would love me some mod gear showing up in the loot boxes.

Should, as code takes everything from CfgWeapons and CfgMagazines, what passes filters sifting off not use-able classes (like base classes). Mods with new items just add new classes there, so are added to the pool. This way we had in the boxes weaponry, uniforms and so forth from massi's or Aggressors, when those are used. Of course, all depends, how stuff in given mod is configured. If in some exotic (not-like-vanilla-stuff) way, may not pass those filters. And of course all is about statistical chances, not certainty of presence.

Anyway, voting for Make Arma Not War.

Great, thanks. :)

[tortuosit 485]

Yes, effects or randomization will be not saved for next play, only which settings should be randomized. Next time game will randomize same settings by default, but results will be chosen anew, not inherited.

For my dynamic weather addon (sig) I made a seeded prng function and replaced all the ArmA random() completely by that new function, this way you can have everything dependent on a seed, maybe that is of interest for you. So this would allow to replay the exact same mission. I'm just not 100% convinced about the random functions quality, but this is deeper maths.

[Rydygier 1302]

Hmm. Idea is to get different gameplay each time. But I'll probably check that code out of curiosity.

[neofit 65]

I would love me some mod gear showing up in the loot boxes. I have that hidden identity mod (or called something similar) with lots of shemags, hoods, gasmasks etc. Never seen them come up in a box.

I never tried this one, but I have player many times with the African Conflict mod or just its pre-requisite weapons pack, and both work fine. Lootboxes are filled "normal" weapons and gear with the weapons pack enabled, and African units are spawned too if you enable the Conflict mod itself. Finally, ACOGs!

Edited July 2, 2014 by neofit

[Rydygier 1302]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.85c beta 2:

- fixed code checking, if there is enough space to unpack the hideout;

- removed some object collision risk for additional vehicles fast travelling to the hideout;

- events affecting reputation now are loosing significance slower and are never forgotten completely;

- civilians may now sometimes observe also near dead bodies.

[tortuosit 485]

Thank you. I'm completely away from playing ArmA currently (Fallout 3 again and Divinity Original Sin), but will most likely return to your mission :)

[Rydygier 1302]

Hmm. That reminds me, although I finished New Vegas quite long time ago, never visted all the places. But, frankly, not so eager to do so soon. I don't know, F3&NV lacks something, F and F2 had, or it is me, who had changed... or both reasons. NV a bit better however. Not sure, similar impressions I had playing Skyrim. Perhaps something in the whole their framework and/or general gameplay vision causes that, but seems impossible to me really immerse into both worlds anymore. Nothing particular to keep me in, worthy of bothering, touching, wide but too shallow perhaps and also many minor flaws. Many, many features, but no cohesive concept. Something, I tried to avoid for Pilgrimage, if I dare to compare. :)

Edited July 4, 2014 by Rydygier

[haleks 8206]

OT : I feel jst the same about Fallout & The Elder Scrolls; the problem is that today most games try to be as casual-friendly as they can, wich always comes at the cost of complexity. Just look at Assassin's creed & Watchdogs, you can do pretty much everything by just pushing one button, half of what you're doing on screen is automated or assisted... There's just no interest without a challenge.

[neofit 65]

Re: Fallouts and TES.

It's because you guys probably don't realize you are looking into the past through pink-colored glasses. I got the old Fallouts from GoG after playing Fallout 3. I was like "how on earth did I even play that back in the day". From the need to write your quests down on a piece of paper because Quest Journals were to difficult to invent, to many other things. It was like when I tried to get back to Jagged Alliance 2 (1.13) about a year ago. I was like "I just pacified this city, now I have to go manually explore each and every container in every house manually? Did I really do that back in the day?". I surely did quite a few mind-numbingly boring things in games back in the day, without support from the code, but back in the day I didn't have 20+ games in my Steam backlog, plus 50 in the wishlist, plus one current MMO and 3-4 I'd "really like to get back to, real soon, oh no, Vanguard is already closed", plus tons of dynamic missions in another game... So yes, I want the game to deliver stuff to me quickly.

And don't compare the TES games to the Fallouts either, totally different things. If you want a Fallout with all the gimmicks that modern games got us used to, try Divinity: Original Sin. And I wouldn't compare it to a Falllout 3/NV either, like I wouldn't compare it to Starcraft. It's like saying Arma sucks, because Men of War.

"today most games try to be as casual-friendly as they can" my butt. Sure, the ACs and Watch Dogs are made for dummass console kids, why even bring them up? But please don't say one needed to be a genius to play the old Fallouts compared to the Bethesda ones.

I love Fallout 3/NV and all the TES games in general, and I'm proud of it! :). Definitely on my replay list (and Fallout 1&2 aren't), but again, backlog, etc...

[tortuosit 485]

People just want their childhood (indeed be seen through pink glasses) back. They think, retro games help here. And they won't get it back, it does not work.

Personally, when I play, I'm not free from everything. There's many obligations and more or less they are always in my mind while gaming.

I think Fallout is in good hands with Bethesda.

And looking forward to Wasteland 2 release, Pillars of Eternity and Torment. Great RPG years.

The whole Fallout setting and story, which I really love because it is strong in itself, reminds me of having to play the Stalker series... Never played Clear Sky... And didn't get thru Pripyat, but that was because of the Misery mod, 1000 times loading savegames was not compatible with the time I could afford.

Dumbass console kids. I watched a n00b playinging Fallout 3 the other day. It was so painful. After two hours into the Wasteland and with help of Youtube comments he realized how to access inventory. Another hour and he realized how to access the map. The trading screen! He did not understand at all, he did not recognize the money counter in the middle... it was painful.

BTW, is Dwarf Fortress already available for consoles? rotfl.

neofit: "If you want a Fallout with all the gimmicks that modern games got us used to, try Divinity: Original Sin." ?

You're probably refering to the UI and technical side... :D

DOS GUI is great. But I do not like camera rotation. I have it on q + mouse movement. I have turned off the option to scroll at borders, because that happens too often accidentally. But when you rotate cam, the rotation stops when that rotation marker collides with the screen borders, this is not good.

Edited July 5, 2014 by tortuosit

[Rydygier 1302]

OK, so let's grumble a bit about old, good times and decadent modern ways. :)

It's because you guys probably don't realize you are looking into the past through pink-colored glasses.

It's not even that. Longing for past advantages of youth, when all was fresh and intriguing is one thing. I can remember quite clearly how some games impressed me in the past. Not anymore. It is nothing, that colour of my glasses alone could change though, it is a fact. My first own game (Steel Panthers II) I played all the time and solely for few months. Few next (turn based strategy games mostly) similar. But then, with years, the more games I had, the more haste I felt to done with one and to begin next, the shorter time and the lesser attention I paid for each. Started from Starcraft, as first non-hardcore strategy, I tried "for a change". At some point I realized, I just have enough, it leads nowhere. Part of this is another shape of games, a factor, that can be verified, so no pink glasses effect here. But mostly, I think, it's just and simply me - I grew up from some things, other just weathered like taste of bubble gum chewed too long.

I was like "how on earth did I even play that back in the day".

Yep. There is no really return. Bah. Since A3 even A2 suffer same to me. There was times, when 800x600 was great and wow. That's yet another factor - accustomization to a technical standard and design solutions. Less and less depends on imagination, more and more depends on sensual perception. There are exceptions, but in general the past is a lost cause. What can be done is attempt to exctract from the jewels of the past as much, as possible of qualitiels, making them great and implement it into modern frame. Or - "just" creating something new, that never been before, even better.

So yes, I want the game to deliver stuff to me quickly.

It is not that, so less optimized interface or mechanics full of unnecessary overcomplications is making game better. But along with design optimization there is coming same kind of content "optimisation", cutting the corners, and directly, pathetically short as for hours of gameplay provided. Just, like you said, all must be fast and easy and now. Fast food effect. Great looking and smelling, easy to swallow, making you fat and giving nothing more, forgotten right away. No time to relish, to discover new levels of deepness and complexicity. I think, there is something, we could called an abundance disaster. You can't really even taste one thing, cause five other already awaiting, distracting you. And you have less time for that, than it was in the shiny past. So it must be fast, easy and now, or will pass unnoticed. And that affects the shape of all those games. Are adapted to such reality of the market. Fast fooded. Console-ized (this one syndrome I hate). No deepness to discover, no complexicity to admire. That reality of abundance and haste is making games such, as we see. There are exceptions of course.

And don't compare the TES games to the Fallouts either, totally different things.

Not so totally as for F3/NV and Oblivion/Skyrim. Some very particular and important things they share. Both, technical (engine, visuals with all their flaws like things (dis)appearing in front of your eyes, which strengthens a sense of artificiality and makes futile any immersion attempts) and design (feeling of narrowness of the world overcrowded with places, full of distractions, but nothing really, to be distracted from, main plot is hardly another, a bit bigger quest, sterile, experienced like through the glass of reserve, distance and indifference, nothing really moving emotionally, nothing particular making you "wow!". Like big box full of toys, so tempting, but the longer you're searching it, the better you see, so none of them are really worthy of further attention.). And those may be a reason, one of, why both can't make me as impressed, as past games could. But again, IMO it's mostly beacuse of I changed. My perception and reception of whole idea of playing a game changed as well.

But I'm not saying, I hate F3 or Skyrim. In the first place it's great, so someone took the discarded torch of Fallout series and continues Elder Scrolls. Just, after trying, hard to find a single good reason to try them again. Nothing particular tempts me, although many things there are done very well. As said, it's mostly me, who changed here, just much harder now to tempt me with anything, than in the times, when all was first time and so fresh.

Currently I'm not looking for fast and easy gaming experience, because so many of them awaits in the queue. I'm looking for the one really worthy of my so rarely available for this money, that could provide me something more, unique, without haste, for long time, something, that does not follow described "fast food" mainstream, but sets its own routes, reaching farther, and could really amaze me and make me immersed without yawing from one cliche to another till far too soon, yet so longed end. I found Arma. Very few other, that are close, but can't really compete, like X-universe games or Total War, maybe also Hitman series or Stalker. There is also separate kind of games, where the story and telling it right is most important (Witcher, Mass Effect, also Deus Ex).

So, back to the topic, such considerations as above make me willing to try creation of something own, avoiding flaws of the others, seeking for my personal optimum. And Arma allows me that like nothing else, I saw, thus we have eg Pilgrimage as the one of such attempts. :) Question stays, to what extend that attempt is successful. After all it's only a mission, not a game, but also it's as much, as I can do toward such direction.

I watched a n00b playinging Fallout 3 the other day.

Lately I'm more and more confident, so our civilization is about to end. Soon. And no one to replace it out there.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Rydygier

[haleks 8206]

"today most games try to be as casual-friendly as they can" my butt. Sure, the ACs and Watch Dogs are made for dummass console kids, why even bring them up?

I'll just say one thing before we close the off-topic : please take the time to compare TES : Morrowind to TES : Skyrim. Everything has been toned down and simplified : dialogue mechanics, gameplay, scenario/background, stats, difficulty, you name it.

Lately I'm more and more confident, so our civilization is about to end. Soon. And no one to replace it out there.

Haha, you should read this man : http://www.bbc.com/news/business-22002530

It seems that, either by mankind dumbness or intelligence/curiosity, we are f*cked! ^^

[tortuosit 485]

I hear the RPG "experts" e.g. at rpgwatch or rpgcodex keep saying, a responsibly modded Skyrim is enjoyable even for them. BTW as a side note, I'm working with a guy, who spent some thousand EUR for Divinity Original Sin. Impressive :D An RPG veteran post 40 yrs, investing money for his biggest hobby.

Rydy I disagree with you conclusion about mankind. I think it has always and will always be thought, that the current society is so much more stupid than the previous one and mankind would die. It never did. Nietzsche lamented about "Zeitgeist" babbling... and we still have it and will always have it.

I understand why we tend towards faster gaming experiences. We have so much in our backlogs, we can have it all and at the same time today... I wouldn't say its the end of the world. It's a bit sad from the developer point of view I think, because customers do not and can not appreciate your product in depth. But maybe it's also a question of age and time. I'm > 40 and have a lot of different responsibilities outside of gaming. But there are maybe still enough kids out there, who dive deeply into that one product they love and not much into all the other 1000s.

[Rydygier 1302]

Rydy I disagree with you conclusion about mankind. I think it has always and will always be thought, that the current society is so much more stupid than the previous one and mankind would die. It never did. Nietzsche lamented about "Zeitgeist" babbling... and we still have it and will always have it.

I'm not quite serious saying that. Still, there are moments... :) Anyway - end of the current civilization isn't same as human race extinction. When Rome fell, ex-Romans still lived within its ex-borders, and probably not much changed in their lives, at least for most of common people, still, something once great ended in miserable circumstancies.

[tortuosit 485]

Did you know you can immediately start your mission via command line (-init=<code> flag)? I never realized it is possible, but after fiddling with the Launcher (I prefer cmd or .lnk files though) I saw it... This is a valid command line (if you have the mods) - your pbo has to reside in the missions folder root for this.

"c:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Arma 3\arma3.exe"  -nosplash -skipIntro -cpuCount=4 -exThreads=7 -showScriptErrors "-mod=@CBA_A3;@JSRS2;@tpw_mods;@RYD_BT;@RYD_INCOGNITO;@bcombat;@sthud_a3;@tort_DynamicWeather;@bzly_UIcorrections;@BaBe_midTex" -name=Tortuosit -init=playMission["","Pilgrimage_1.85c_beta2.Altis"]

Have not yet tried if multiple inits or proper semicolon separated code is possible, this would be fantastic, as then I could call my weather script more flexibly instead of the more monolithic addon...

[Rydygier 1302]

Interesting.

BTW I'll be able to download anything big only day after tommorow, for now my monthly transfer limit is depleted, and I'm back in the 90's, like in the happy times of 56 kbit/s modems. So I must wait till then with Arma update, testing new features, like this launcher, new bugs and particularly checking, in what ways this patch have broken Pilgrimage. :) Hopefully, not that much, as sound mods... To be just, seems, in 1.22 they fixed that annoying groan sound when unit is tired.

[tortuosit 485]

56k Modems was happy times! Internet was new. And we had offline standalone PCs before, its weird, how could this have been fun? It was.#

With the internet, telephone was always blocked and I paid tons of money to my ISP. ISDN flatrates were also nice, but they died soon...

Back in the 90s, haha. Reminds me of technical progress here. I've got 16 MBit DSL since maybe... 2005? Not sure. At first, it was alright, now I'm down from 16 MBit to 11 MBit. I thought it would be time for a speed boost, which I pay every couple of years, but: Nothing available, nothing in sight. 50 MBit DSL not available here, Cable... omg. In the 70s/80s when it was used for TV only they asked any house owner, and the owners of my house did not need it. So, no cable in the ground. My 80 years old neighbor receives his E-Mails with 100 MBit cable. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARFGGGGGGGHHHH And no progress on the horizon, its so depressing. But I must admit I'm not living in a country with a lot of progress or sense of risk. (Germany).

Edited July 15, 2014 by tortuosit

[Rydygier 1302]

Well, here the only option is radio internet, available only thanks to strong antenna above the roof, that, depending on weather and who knows, what else, gives me average 80-120 kB/s (it's called 1 MB...) but sometimes less or none, and 7-8 kB/s now (90's indeed, but meanwhile internet became much heavier...). And it's limited. 9 GB per month. The only alternative would be satellite connection. Not many such places in Poland. I heard about some plans with fiber optics connecting two near towns, but here, as for progress, is even worse. Anyway, most probably in the next few weeks I'm after 5 years moving out of this beautiful, remote wilderness closer to civilization, what means 1-1.2 MB/s, not limited, and you may imagine, how fast it is for me. :)

[Rydygier 1302]

"Dev branch" updated to 1.85c beta 3:

- there should be no intel about body location after body is found;

- various code optimizations.

Mostly internal work, nothing serious. Still, new beta is here to test, if something was broken. BTW tested shortly under A3 1.24, and no obvious signs of corruption after latest patch. Further testings needed though.

Also, for interested, some picture, how Pilgrimage's map looks like in debug mode on maxed settings after exemplary peopling...

Edited July 16, 2014 by Rydygier

[kavoriken 1]

Suggestion: I love using the random time option, but playing at night without any source of light is kind of crazy. Could you maybe implement a time of day check that automatically adds a flashlight or a weapon light attachement to your inventory when it is dark?