Toadie's SmallArms and Animations for Arma3

[Chaingunfighter 103]

What variants of the SIG 510 are going to be included? I've seen the Stgw.57 and 510-Commando, but which others; the 510-1/2/3/4, 510-3 (Finnish 7.62x39 one), 510 Carbine, AM-55, AMT, PE 57?

[war_lord 934]

Stgw.57 (Kern optic optional), Stgw.57 with top RIS for mounting modern optics, Stgw.570 Commando, and SIG 510-4. I could have sworn the AMT was meant to be in, but it's not in the VA in my Patreon RC copy, so I guess I'm recalling wrong. 

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Stgw.57 (Kern optic optional), Stgw.57 with top RIS for mounting modern optics, Stgw.570 Commando, and SIG 510-4. I could have sworn the AMT was meant to be in, but it's not in the VA in my Patreon RC copy, so I guess I'm recalling wrong. 

Ah

 

Also, I noticed on the worklist that the KAC SR-47 is on there twice; once closer to the top along with the CMMG MK47 MUTANT and also down towards the bottom by itself. The first one has an "and/or" disclaimer so it might make sense to have separate entries, but the CMMG one doesn't have its own, so I presume that it's just an accidental double entry (rather than the implication that he'd do two AK/AR hybrid packs.)

 

edit: The AWM is also listed on there again, even though that pack has been released already.

[war_lord 934]

The list is a little messy lots of little redundancies, for example the HK416 is listed separately from the HK416D10RS which is the exact same gun (D10RS being the designation for the 10 inch barrel). I assume it's because Toadie just adds the requests on as they come, and does the research/labor estimate when they actually come up. 

[Chaingunfighter 103]

The list is a little messy lots of little redundancies, for example the HK416 is listed separately from the HK416D10RS which is the exact same gun (D10RS being the designation for the 10 inch barrel). I assume it's because Toadie just adds the requests on as they come, and does the research/labor estimate when they actually come up. 

Someone should probably go in there and clean it up if that's the case, because it'll inevitably affect what people vote for. If Toadie was going to include every HK416 type rifle when they finally get voted to the top, then it might never get made despite being a more popular option simply because everyone is voting for different options. (That's just an example - I'm sure the 416s will make it up top eventually, but a bunch of other platforms may not.)

[war_lord 934]

I'll leave it to him to comment when he gets on, there might be a reason it's the way it is, I know virtually nothing about the practical aspects of modeling. 

[colosseum 34]

Can someone link the Patreon page and the list? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

[war_lord 934]

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/toadie2k?ty=c

The list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Ntyv14BqYyhabzDfBgnmEfnKlIk3exvM8WDOlU5Qv_g/edit#gid=0

Pie Chart of the last cycle: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I6QQisIkVHq2VxbC2MgoowdC8VbIsCh4hNZsmkK61Ps/pubchart?oid=434174366&format=interactive

[Roach_ 52]

Is the OICW XM29 possible?

[war_lord 934]

If it ends up on the list, yes.

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Is the OICW XM29 possible?

Become a patreon backer and you can definitely make it one.

[Asgar 35]

I'm kinda sad to see the HK 416A5 is at 70 on the list...there are some nice 416s out there, but the quality of Toadies addons is simply unrivaled 

[alanford 27]

Is the OICW XM29 possible?

man this looks like it wouldn't be at all practical. :p

[Marduk1813 62]

I'm kinda sad to see the HK 416A5 is at 70 on the list...there are some nice 416s out there, but the quality of Toadies addons is simply unrivaled 

 

Personally I think it's more important to fill gaps of weapons, which aren't available in A3 in any decent quality so far. So I'm glad about the actual poll.

 

But speaking of the HK416 - today the Germany ministry of defence announced, that the G36 will be replaced until 2019. The ministry is now preparing a new tender.  

[war_lord 934]

Guys, just a heads up, if we start German army procurement chat in the thread it will be treated as off-topic, so take it to the OT subforum to save the moderators some time. 

[Roach_ 52]

man this looks like it wouldn't be at all practical. :P

 

Well, it is actually practical, it just was too expensive and heavy/bulky. But it sure is an interesting weapon. Brings me back to the good ol' Ghost Recon (2001) days.

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Well, it is actually practical, it just was too expensive and heavy/bulky. But it sure is an interesting weapon. Brings me back to the good ol' Ghost Recon (2001) days.

I mean, that's basically how practicality is concerned. The XM29 fully loaded weighs more than the PKM and M249 SAW, almost three times an M4 Carbine. The 20x85mm grenade launcher is cool, but proprietary ammunition would've meant that all 40x46mm grenade rounds used in the M79/M203/M320/MK19 would probably need a replacement, or costs would have to be adjusted so that both are continued purchases. All of the optics it has are pretty neat, but they're built into the gun, unlike picatinny rail attachments, so if the optics on the gun break at all you have no way to aim. With an M4/MK18 even if your combat sights break or malfunction, you can still just flip up your MBUIS or swap it out for a new one on the go.

 

And that's the other thing; the platform was not highly customizable like US forces like having now. The XM29 was designed to be an end-all replacement for the AR-15 platform in the entire US Army (and probably the rest of the military, too), but what use would second line combat engineers have for a thermal/NVG optic or laser designator? Practically none. We've found that it's just a lot easier to ship SOPMOD kits for already existing rifles to allow the troops to decide what they want on their own, and because it can be changed on the fly it becomes far, far more practical.

 

Granted the OICW and its derivatives (like the XM25) are pretty damn cool and seeing them in ArmA 3, especially with toadie's quality would be cool, but they really aren't practical (at least, not for what they were intended for.)

[colosseum 34]

Any ETA on the StG57s? Dying to use them in-game...

[Roach_ 52]

I mean, that's basically how practicality is concerned. The XM29 fully loaded weighs more than the PKM and M249 SAW, almost three times an M4 Carbine. The 20x85mm grenade launcher is cool, but proprietary ammunition would've meant that all 40x46mm grenade rounds used in the M79/M203/M320/MK19 would probably need a replacement, or costs would have to be adjusted so that both are continued purchases. All of the optics it has are pretty neat, but they're built into the gun, unlike picatinny rail attachments, so if the optics on the gun break at all you have no way to aim. With an M4/MK18 even if your combat sights break or malfunction, you can still just flip up your MBUIS or swap it out for a new one on the go.

 

And that's the other thing; the platform was not highly customizable like US forces like having now. The XM29 was designed to be an end-all replacement for the AR-15 platform in the entire US Army (and probably the rest of the military, too), but what use would second line combat engineers have for a thermal/NVG optic or laser designator? Practically none. We've found that it's just a lot easier to ship SOPMOD kits for already existing rifles to allow the troops to decide what they want on their own, and because it can be changed on the fly it becomes far, far more practical.

 

Granted the OICW and its derivatives (like the XM25) are pretty damn cool and seeing them in ArmA 3, especially with toadie's quality would be cool, but they really aren't practical (at least, not for what they were intended for.)

 

Yeah, I mean, when it comes to taking out targets, it is practical, but they focused too much on making the rifleman a one-man-army, which is the impractical thing (aside from the maintenance and customisation). And like you said, seeing it in Arma 3 with HLC tier quality, that'd be pretty cool.

[aronh17 26]

Any ETA on the StG57s? Dying to use them in-game...

Still waiting on ballistics, no exact ETA as of yet.

[arkhir 135]

I must've been living under a rock, or the compatibilities for RHS, ACE and CUP have been just added recently. No big surprise though, Toadie always does stuff properly. Thank you :)

 

also vog25p bouncing explosion - wow.

[Chaingunfighter 103]

Yeah, I mean, when it comes to taking out targets, it is practical, but they focused too much on making the rifleman a one-man-army, which is the impractical thing (aside from the maintenance and customisation). And like you said, seeing it in Arma 3 with HLC tier quality, that'd be pretty cool.

If they had designed it as more of a support weapon and allowed parts to easily swap out, it would've been much more effective. I think that's the problem with all of these programs the US military keeps developing to 'replace' the M16 series; they really want to move away from the platform altogether, but the programs they develop take way too long and the general opinion on what soldiers want/need changes faster than the programs can keep up with, hence why it's usually decided to continue using them.

 

But "impractical" is a lot less meaningful in ArmA 3 because it's a game, so an XM29 would be far more fun to play around with here. (Though Toadie actually does take a lot of factors into account - his FN Minimis/M249s and M60s have a proper lengthy reload time rather than the generic 3 second one that most A3 guns use.) - That and a GE M134, because let's be honest; who doesn't want to recreate that jungle shooting scene from Predator on Tanoa when it comes out? [i'm still wondering whether I should put that or a Colt SAA on the list when I acquire currency and become a backer :P]

[war_lord 934]

I don't think they "really" want to move away from AR-15's, the platform does what it is required to do, nothing wrong with it. But it's best practice for any military to keep an eye on the latest developments rather then just assuming they already have the best tool for the job, which is why they hold the Carbine competitions they do. The reason this has never resulted in a replacement is because the weapons submitted cost too much for too minor an improvement on the M4A1. Why spend millions on an M4 with a piston in it, or a SCAR-L with a bayonet lug when they aren't offering any statistical benefit you can't get from upgrading current inventory? Particularly when new Carbines come with absurdly inflated price tags.    

Which incidentally is why SOCOM binned their MK 16's after only 4 years. Not enough of an improvement over the M4A1 or HK416 for the price of stocking them and training personnel in their use. 

And the XM 29 was a dud from the word go, it was heavy, expensive, bulky, way too dependent on electronics to function effectively, the grenade rounds were proprietary and they had trouble making them effective enough to replace the 40mm, the rifle portion had to have an absurdly short barrel in order to be even slightly ergonomic, which lead to velocity issues. 

By the time they actually started working out the major problems, the war on terror had started up and suddenly the qualities desired in infantry small arms had changed totally.

[Roach_ 52]

If they had designed it as more of a support weapon and allowed parts to easily swap out, it would've been much more effective. I think that's the problem with all of these programs the US military keeps developing to 'replace' the M16 series; they really want to move away from the platform altogether, but the programs they develop take way too long and the general opinion on what soldiers want/need changes faster than the programs can keep up with, hence why it's usually decided to continue using them.

 

But "impractical" is a lot less meaningful in ArmA 3 because it's a game, so an XM29 would be far more fun to play around with here. (Though Toadie actually does take a lot of factors into account - his FN Minimis/M249s and M60s have a proper lengthy reload time rather than the generic 3 second one that most A3 guns use.) - That and a GE M134, because let's be honest; who doesn't want to recreate that jungle shooting scene from Predator on Tanoa when it comes out? [i'm still wondering whether I should put that or a Colt SAA on the list when I acquire currency and become a backer :P]

Might as well put the GE M134 and live up to your username, hah  ;)

[Marduk1813 62]

Guys, just a heads up, if we start German army procurement chat in the thread it will be treated as off-topic, so take it to the OT subforum to save the moderators some time. 

 

Hu? There was never a intention to start a OT-discussion here. My post was meant as a additional information for the mod maker or anyone else who cares. I think it's important to know that the G36 will be out of service by its mainuser in a few years, and that we don't have to expect any other PIP-versions after the IdZ-project anymore. Improving the G36 was a option which was considered and has been dropped officialy now.

 

Discussions about a weapon-system are a important non-OT part of topics like this. I agree it's not the place for a discussion about the successor of the G36 though.