Why no american units?

[munger 25]

If Tony Blair's anything to go by our attitude is quite the opposite of anti-Americanism - Blair is about as loyal to Bush as you can get.

Sorry to go OT for a moment.

[Cloney 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (You_looking_at_me? @ Sep. 09 2002,23:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most addon makers are European yet you yanks have Thousands of WW2 troops yet the brittish still have NO WW2 for dl apart from maybe the odd sten or lee enfield I missed but certainly no packs. There has been no Brittish army packs of real quality yet and no challenger tank. The Warrior was a reskinned Bradley. There is few RAF planes and I dont like the harriers as they have to handle like choppers to be made to hover. The game ships with well made US units. You have Nam units, WW2 units, modern units, all very nicely done. I dont believe you are really in any poistion to complain. And what anti-Americanism? Would you be talking about? Yes we have opposition to attacking Iraq, that isnt anti-Americanism<span id='postcolor'>

Note: That aside from Marss and Bibmi, All of the American Units have been made by Americans. Maybe you Brits should get your asses in gear and make your own units instead of waiting for someone else to do it.

and Yes I'm_Looking_At_You

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (You_looking_at_me? @ Sep. 09 2002,23:33)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Most addon makers are European yet you yanks have Thousands of WW2 troops yet the brittish still have NO WW2 for dl apart from maybe the odd sten or lee enfield I missed but certainly no packs. There has been no Brittish army packs of real quality yet and no challenger tank. The Warrior was a reskinned Bradley. There is few RAF planes and I dont like the harriers as they have to handle like choppers to be made to hover. The game ships with well made US units. You have Nam units, WW2 units, modern units, all very nicely done. I dont believe you are really in any poistion to complain. And what anti-Americanism? Would you be talking about? Yes we have opposition to attacking Iraq, that isnt anti-Americanism<span id='postcolor'>

The British WWII addons are in the works right now, and there is a British Spitfire. Also Bibmi has made some excellent British Marine and British Airborne forces and GFX-707 made a good SA-80 rifle addon. The Bibmi addons are currently being reworked for version 1.75 with brand new models that are looking great. However I do wish someone would reskin the Italian Tornado aircraft and turn it into a RAF Tornado.

There also is a British Scorpion tank being created. So slowly but surely, British addons are coming out. I'd love to see some SAS troops in desert fatigues and arab-style head scarves like those German desert-fatigue clad commandoes in the HK MOD. Stick them on a heavily armed open-top land rover (with desert cammo) and you'd have a bitch'ing SAS addon.

Also...there is the Falklands war addon that will be putting out more British weapons, vehicles, and aircraft soon.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[munger 25]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Sep. 10 2002,01:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">However I do wish someone would reskin the Italian Tornado aircraft and turn it into a RAF Tornado.<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, me too. The British Tornado should have a camo scheme like the RAF Chinook that was made quite a while back; a kind of alternating thick green stripe pattern. I can't remember who made the Chinook but it looked great.

[PFC_Mike 2]

Let's look for a moment at which countries have (relatively) large armed services or were involved in post Vietnam conflicts:

US

Russia

China

UK

Germany

Israel

Iraq

Taliban

Why so little Israeli, Chinese, or Afghan stuff? But in general, more addons, especially ones people might consider using, are good.

[munger 25]

Israeli equipment is fairly similar to US kit - M4's, M113's, M60 tanks etc. I believe there is a Merkava in development as well, although I haven't hard anything about it for a while.

The Chinese military is large, but I guess because there aren't really any Chinese forum members or modmakers, plus the fact that China isn't involved in military action much (I may be wrong here), nothing gets developed. I think there is actually a Chinese weapons pack available somewhere though.

As for Afghan stuff, most of it already exists in one form or another. They use AK rifles, BMP 1's and maybe the odd T55 tank and that's about it. Apart from reskinning some units to look appropriate, there isn't much to be done for them.

[PFC_Mike 2]

I'm sortof thinking of countries with big militaries

besides, a whole China vs. Taiwan/US scenario would be pretty cool, son't you think?

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Sep. 10 2002,03:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's look for a moment at which countries have (relatively) large armed services or were involved in post Vietnam conflicts:

US

Russia

China

UK

Germany

Israel

Iraq

Taliban

Why so little Israeli, Chinese, or Afghan stuff? But in general, more addons, especially ones people might consider using, are good.<span id='postcolor'>

Actually there is a whole ton of IDF addons out right now in various sites.

There is also the Taiwan Workship crew who are making lots of Chinese addons. I only have their USMG pack however because I had nothing but problems with their other packs that often require other addons that aren't in the packs and unless you read chinese it's kinda hard to figure out which ones you are missing from which addon pack.

As far as large armed forces go, don't forget Iran and South Africa.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Units. Now units are important. It is all well and dandy to have all these add ons, but we need units to man them. I reckon that maybe a big group of Mod makers should get together, and make units and weapons for everysingle large army in the world(well lets say large as in over 1,000 soldiers). With all the weapon add-ons we have, all that almost needs to done is making new skins for units. But their are stil gaps. There are many highly used weapon systems such as Mil-8 etc. and T-62/64 tanks and stuff that are still yet to be done. Also, some kind of MLRS would be good. Imagine letting lsoe with some Stalin Organs(some real poor countries stil sue them) or those bloody massive 320mm Chinese rockets!

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Munger @ Sep. 10 2002,04:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Israeli equipment is fairly similar to US kit - M4's, M113's, M60 tanks etc. I believe there is a Merkava in development as well, although I haven't hard anything about it for a while.

The Chinese military is large, but I guess because there aren't really any Chinese forum members or modmakers, plus the fact that China isn't involved in military action much (I may be wrong here), nothing gets developed. I think there is actually a Chinese weapons pack available somewhere though.

As for Afghan stuff, most of it already exists in one form or another. They use AK rifles, BMP 1's and maybe the odd T55 tank and that's about it. Apart from reskinning some units to look appropriate, there isn't much to be done for them.<span id='postcolor'>

Yeah I can't wait for that Merkava tank from the Lost Brothers MOD team. Also while the IDF uses alot of U.S. kit, most of it is highly modified by them like the M113 "Zelda". They've also put new Israeli designed turrets on their M60 tanks as well.

There are a ton of Chinese addons (both Taiwanese and mainland Chinese forces) to be found at:

http://otw.jmfoz.idv.tw/index.asp

They also have links to Chinese forums.

As far as Afghan forces go, they actually use the T-55 tanks quite a bit as it is the main type of armor found there along with old BMP-1's. The main weapons that are needed for a Afghan mod would be a stationary ZSU-23-2 double barreled towed 23mm cannon and a DSh-K heavy machine gun on a tripod.

Other then that, just some Norther Alliance and Taliban addons are needed with guys wearing the traditional baggy pants, and vests along with the various types of turbans and other head gear. with the Taliban wearing their black turbans and the NA forces (or at least some of them) wearing a solid green fatigues similar to the Resistance forces but green.

Then they'd just need some good Afghan looking bearded faces. There already are a few in OFP, but more would be needed.

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Die Alive 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Sep. 09 2002,21:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's look for a moment at which countries have (relatively) large armed services or were involved in post Vietnam conflicts:

US

Russia

China

UK

Germany

Israel

Iraq

Taliban

Why so little Israeli, Chinese, or Afghan stuff? But in general, more addons, especially ones people might consider using, are good.<span id='postcolor'>

You can add India and Pakistan to that list. I think there are addons of Pakistanian military.

-=Die Alive=-

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Col. Kurtz @ Sep. 10 2002,15:34)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Units. Now units are important. It is all well and dandy to have all these add ons, but we need units to man them. I reckon that maybe a big group of Mod makers should get together, and make units and weapons for everysingle large army in the world(well lets say large as in over 1,000 soldiers). With all the weapon add-ons we have, all that almost needs to done is making new skins for units. But their are stil gaps. There are many highly used weapon systems such as Mil-8 etc. and T-62/64 tanks and stuff that are still yet to be done.<span id='postcolor'>

There were some great looking new Russian helicopters being worked on including one that was already in game but that was a long time ago...  and I've never anything of what became of them.  The T-62 on the other hand is I think less useful.  It is only slightly different looking then the T-55, only has moderate improvements, and really was not used very much by the Russians.  The T-62 was far more expensive then the T-55 to produce yet offered only limited improvements, which is why the T-55 stayed in production long after the T-62 production line halted. Same with the T64 tank which only was used for a very short time period afterwhich the Russians moved quickly to replace the T-64 and their older tanks with T-72's and T-80 tanks which themselves are now slowly being replaced by T-90 tanks with more even more modern tanks in the works. (The T90 is also currently a hot export tank). 

At any rate, the T-62 was not exported much (if at all) and the T-55 still remains as the most widely used main battle tank in the world.

While I don't expect mod makers to make addons for every Army in the world (I mean come on, these guys have a life), I do hope that they do concentrate more on making units for various conflicts around the world as well as for past historical conflicts.  So far a great effort is being made by WWII MOD teams (Their WWII weapons, unit and armor addons rock!  Same with the SEB team and their Vietnam addons as well as the Falklands Conflict MOD team.

But I hope to see more modern unit addons like Frandsen's USMC addon which is spectacular!

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[N.o.R.S.u 0]

Actually T-64 was widely used in Chechnya . Anyway east vehicles that would be most used would probably be a high quality BTR-80 and a small chopper (tired of inserting small SpetzNaz team with a massive Mi-17 ).

[miles teg 1]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Sep. 10 2002,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually T-64 was widely used in Chechnya . Anyway east vehicles that would be most used would probably be a high quality BTR-80 and a small chopper (tired of inserting small SpetzNaz team with a massive Mi-17 ).<span id='postcolor'>

Really? Wow! I didn't know they were still using the T-64's. I thought they had all been replaced. Interesting.

As for Spetsnaz I've actually only seen them deployed out of Mi-17's and Mi-24's. But I think for some missions that they'd probably use something a little smaller and more maneuverable like the Mi-2 Hoplite. However unfortunately I don't think that Russian Special Forces have any purpose built special ops helicopters equivalent to the U.S. Special Operations MH60 Pavehawks for example. The Hind is probably the closest thing, but when it carries troops it can't carry any external weapons and is very difficult to hover with. It does however provide superb protection against all manners small arms fire and has night flying instruments that aid in covert insertion during night assaults or in poor weather.

But it might be interesting to do some research to see if anything new is on the drawing board (or being tested) for Russian Special Operations.

One such helicopter that I found which has massive capabilities for Special Operations is the KA-60. You can find lots of information about it at:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ka_60/

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD>

[Col. Kurtz 0]

Indeed true, Russia cannot afford to have a tank force full of T-80's and T-90's. Many T-64s are still used.

I think Mil-8 is very important as it is a lot more widely used than the Mil-17.

[Genesis 0]

Just so you know, there have been over 20 000 T-62's made and it was widely used in Afghanistan and there are loads of them in stocks even today in Russia. As for the T-64 it was even more capable than T-72 at the beginning and it has been never exported outside USSR/Russia. I don't know if the russians have modernized the T-64 like they have done with T-72 or T-80, but I assume they have at least added Kontakt-5 Era to active service tanks. In a conflict like Chechnya it is more than capable tank. And, over 8 000 has been made during the USSR time. So they both are certainly no marginal tanks.

Oh, yeah, I believe Iraq has/had T-62's, at least during the Gulf War.

[Paratrooper 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Die Alive @ Sep. 10 2002,15:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC_Mike @ Sep. 09 2002,21:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Let's look for a moment at which countries have (relatively) large armed services or were involved in post Vietnam conflicts:

US

Russia

China

UK

Germany

Israel

Iraq

Taliban

Why so little Israeli, Chinese, or Afghan stuff? But in general, more addons, especially ones people might consider using, are good.<span id='postcolor'>

You can add India and Pakistan to that list.  I think there are addons of Pakistanian military.

-=Die Alive=-<span id='postcolor'>

There are hardly any good British units! Considering the amount of action they see it is surprising. Again bibmi is making some.

[nuddicrous 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Some Canadian Snipers with those big McMillan .50 cal rifles and C7's would be sweet!

In otherwords I could definitely make some realistic missions with Canadian unit addons. <span id='postcolor'>

We use 50 cal's? I shall have to do more research, since I had trouble finding accurate and non-contradictory information on the C2 or c3... whatever it's called... I have a c7 made, which sadly is just an m16 with autofire and a superior sound... as well as a c6 and c8 (both taiwan workshop mods with my 'superior' and distinct sounds, and less confusing names for standard and adverse fire for the c9). I have such high hopes for my mod, but I tend to get a bit big headed about things, with unwieldy plans like making unique cap badges, rank insignia and such.

I still can't retexture the Uh1 Huey... damnit, I'll have to search for solutions to the whole 'overflow' error when I load things in texview. Canadians need griffons.

And someone mentioned a LAV that's been developed? I'm sure I'm getting my hopes up too high, or that the person's verb tenses were a bit off, but still... lav *grovels*

[frk19732001 0]

don't forget the french army that also got involved in some conflicts in the post viet nam era

[ran 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (frk19732001 @ Sep. 11 2002,19:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">don't forget the french army that also got involved in some conflicts in the post viet nam era<span id='postcolor'>

some ?

we've been involved in almost every "international" wars and conflicts since 1970

chad (to stop civil war) , Zaire (or something like that , the legion hasty drop to rescue european people and to stop civil war) , djibouti (stoping civil war and peacekeeping), lebanon (stoping civil war and peacekeeping) , gulf war (the Al Salman rush , and some other actions) , bosnia (stoping civil war and peacekeeping) , kosovo (stoping civil war and peacekeeping) , afghanistan (intelligence and peace keeping)

i surely forgot a lot

[whisperFFW06 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Miles Teg @ Sep. 10 2002,20:10)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (N.o.R.S.u @ Sep. 10 2002,16:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Actually T-64 was widely used in Chechnya . Anyway east vehicles that would be most used would probably be a high quality BTR-80 and a small chopper (tired of inserting small SpetzNaz team with a massive Mi-17 ).<span id='postcolor'>

Really?  Wow! I didn't know they were still using the T-64's.  I thought they had all been replaced.  Interesting.

As for Spetsnaz I've actually only seen them deployed out of Mi-17's and Mi-24's.  But I think for some missions that they'd probably use something a little smaller and more maneuverable like the Mi-2 Hoplite.   However unfortunately I don't think that Russian Special Forces have any purpose built special ops helicopters equivalent to the U.S. Special Operations MH60 Pavehawks for example.  The Hind is probably the closest thing, but when it carries troops it can't carry any external weapons and is very difficult to hover with.  It does however provide superb protection against all manners small arms fire and has night flying instruments that aid in covert insertion during night assaults or in poor weather.

But it might be interesting to do some research to see if anything new is on the drawing board (or being tested) for Russian Special Operations.

One such helicopter that I found which has massive capabilities for Special Operations is the KA-60.  You can find lots of information about it at:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ka_60/

Chris G.

aka-Miles Teg<GD><span id='postcolor'>

Duh!

A Kamov chopper w/o contra-rotative rotors?! Amazing

Anyway, very nice chopper, impressive. Nice FOV, protected tail rotor, 16 men capacity..... Sounds really good.