Real Armor Mod

[DaViSFiT 21]

Go go go Olds, this is really awesome. cant wait for armor stuff getting realistic. :)

[Rydygier 1302]

Yeah, finally proper armor damage simulation without any scripting. Thanks a lot for doing this. Great news indeed.

BTW I like that picture from the first post, its hidden message... :)

[Tonci87 163]

I suspect BIS doesn´t want to do this because of game balance.

I say fuck it!

Go Olds!

[shiftysean 21]

I wonder how the cooperation (if any) will be with the AIS mod from Bakerman. He has a small script aswell that makes HEAT rockets 2 stage (so pretty sick when they penetrate). Both mods give us an awesome armor experience imo, just wonder if for instance with your added armor values, the at rifleman are useless now (whilst aiming at weakspots ofcourse). The APS he has modelled on the Slammer makes it pretty much an invulnerable tank I guess xD. The exact rear would be the sweet spot then :).

I look forward to all the progress being made by these mods, it really makes tanks an awesome force multiplier :D

[olds 15]

Hi Shifty,

Funny that you mention that! Bakerman and I have chatted on precisely this subject and I believe the plan is to coordinate in such a way that the mods are complementary if at all possible.

I have not yet calibrated the missile weapons (including infantry AT), so you'll probably see some changes there. Bakerman has been paying close attention to the real world analogs of the Arma 3 weapons, so I'll work off of that when it comes to giving them appropriate penetration values. (My focus ultimately being on Arma 2 gen equipment).

The one variable not under our control is how much armor BIS actually modeled into the vehicles. But let's assume they are reasonably faithful to what is known about the real-world equivalents (Merkava, etc.).

I'm guessing that in the end side and rear shots will be very effective, while front shots will kill/disable only with a bit of luck. I haven't paid attention to the impact angle of air-launched ATGM's, but if they hit roof armor the tank is toast. (This would be consistent with recent historical trends. The relationship between tank armor and AT weapons seems to have been fairly consistent over the last few decades, with innovations in one being matched by the other.)

[redarmy 420]

Hey olds,

i intalled this mod.After testing i discover the nato merkave(slammer) was invincible and its 50cal was auto firing all over the place.

I dont have aby other mods installed bar ALIVE,MCC,and some custom factions.

Any ideas?

[olds 15]

Hi redarmy,

Yeah, the Slammer problem is a known bug and probably the most glaring one at this point. I'm working on it. I think there's something not quite right with the Slammer even in the vanilla game and some bug in my mod is making it much worse. Should be fixable though as I don't recall having this problem before the latest BIS update. Thanks for your patience -- the other tanks work pretty good though, huh?

[redarmy 420]

Yeah i never liked that tank.It butchers my poor BTRs! Thanks for the work on it,hope to see the mod up and running full fuctional as i do need the NATO faction in my missions and im eagerly awaiting a full tank ala Kursk kind of battle between the russian T-100s and the slammers.

Great mod cant beleive BIS didnt install it this way to begin with. Balance over realism maybe? tho i thought this was a sim? lol

Keep it up man

cheers

[shiftysean 21]

Think the official term nowadays for arma is "military sandbox" more than milsim.

Awesome to hear that Olds, really excited for this :)

[sakura_chan 9]

Congrats on release! I see you have trouble with the slammer. From what I can see it can only be damaged using the armorStructural variable. Increasing it makes the thing unstoppable. Perhaps the slammer has incorrect armor because even the heaviest piercing rounds dont damage the hull, and they should according to the armor values. I noticed that tanks also dont have the hitfuel class, so there is no chance of an internal explosion. The only way to really destroy it is to blow up the hull. I'll work on it a bit and see what I can find.

[Armored 10]

Thanks for the mod, it is a necessary thing! Don`t stop Olds!

[Armored 10]

Delete.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Armored

[carlostex 38]

Olds, I hope you will deliver us something I cannot for various reasons ;) thumbs up!

Does this mean if the mod is successful you will implement a similar system in the vanilla game?

[olds 15]

Congrats on release! I see you have trouble with the slammer. From what I can see it can only be damaged using the armorStructural variable. Increasing it makes the thing unstoppable. Perhaps the slammer has incorrect armor because even the heaviest piercing rounds dont damage the hull, and they should according to the armor values. I noticed that tanks also dont have the hitfuel class, so there is no chance of an internal explosion. The only way to really destroy it is to blow up the hull. I'll work on it a bit and see what I can find.

Thanks S-C! Keep in mind it's the same for the other tanks and they work fine though. I have some stupid bug (apparently) in my modified config file that is only affecting the Slammer. High armorStructural does not prevent locational damage (as far as we know). Penetrating shots should hit locational hitpoints and apply "hit" damage accordingly. But the Slammer is ignoring all penetrating shots as if a) it's minimalHit was infinite or b) it had no internal hitpoints or c) the locational radius value was set to 0 and shots were just passing through.

But in my alpha release, all those values (along with explosionShielding) are practically identical for all the tanks. If only I could look at the P3D and rule out any problems there... (although the liklihood is just some mistake I've made - somewhere I have an "1e10" instead of a "100". :P

Edited January 24, 2014 by Olds

[kuIoodporny 45]

Congrats on release! I see you have trouble with the slammer. From what I can see it can only be damaged using the armorStructural variable. Increasing it makes the thing unstoppable. Perhaps the slammer has incorrect armor because even the heaviest piercing rounds dont damage the hull, and they should according to the armor values. I noticed that tanks also dont have the hitfuel class, so there is no chance of an internal explosion. The only way to really destroy it is to blow up the hull. I'll work on it a bit and see what I can find.

This is used by us following way - wheeled vehicles use HitFuel as means of internal damage, while tracked use HitHull for the same purpose.

I am not sure what is so special about Slammer - I have no problem piercing the hull where I would expect it to happen, pretty much as I designed it.

[maturin 12]

zGuba, wouldn't it be much better to have wheeled vehicles also use HitHull for damage, and reserve HitFuel for, well, draining fuel?

The hollywood explosion of MRAPs when you hit the fuel tank is pretty shameful, after all. It literally defeats the entire purpose of an MRAP.

[olds 15]

I am not sure what is so special about Slammer - I have no problem piercing the hull where I would expect it to happen, pretty much as I designed it.

Is it my imagination or does it take many more rounds to kill the Slammer from the front than it used to? In the vanilla game I can kill the Kuma & Varsuk with 1-2 sabot front hits, while the Slammer takes 4-5, sometimes more. NOTE: I'm referring to front hull hits here, turrets seem to be weaker than hulls in the game.

The difference the mod makes is that it relies on locational hits only, so if the Slammer is roughly equivalent to the Kuma & Varsuk in terms of hit locations, the results should be pretty much the same... I must have introduced a bug in the Slammer config file somewhere that I'm not seeing b/c the Kuma & Varsuk behave as expected in the mod.

Maybe a corrupted file on my part, recreating the config by hand seems to be fixing the problem. However, the Slammer definitely seems to have thicker front and side armor than the other 2 MBTs (not that there's anything wrong with that).

This is used by us following way - wheeled vehicles use HitFuel as means of internal damage, while tracked use HitHull for the same purpose.

Ohhh, this might explain why the APC's are oddly resistant to sabot rounds in the mod. Perhaps there are far fewer HitFuel hitpoints in a wheeled vehicle than there are HitHull's in a tank? Edited January 24, 2014 by Olds

[kuIoodporny 45]

Yes, obviously.

zGuba, wouldn't it be much better to have wheeled vehicles also use HitHull for damage, and reserve HitFuel for, well, draining fuel?

The hollywood explosion of MRAPs when you hit the fuel tank is pretty shameful, after all. It literally defeats the entire purpose of an MRAP.

I haven't set up MRAPs. I worked on heavier armoured vehicles and Hellcat only.

Well, the key problem with HitHull and HitFuel is programmers support. If it works, why change it :P

---------- Post added at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 AM ----------

Olds, you may have outdated hitpoints config.

You should not redefine params like:

name

visual

in hitpoints configs.

In general avoid redefining stuff that is already there.

[olds 15]

By the beard of Zeus that was an odd error! Anyway, it looks like the Slammer is fixed. I'll add it to the next update. I will also finish trimming the modified configs so they represent changes only. That will reduce the 'collateral damage' to other mods.

[froggyluv 2130]

For some reason when I have this mod enabled Im unable to place explosives

[olds 15]

Apparently there was some slop created by using pre-update config files. So I'm hoping mysterious errors disappear when I fix that. Alpha 0.0.1 won't play nice with other mods, so beware of that issue. That should be fixed by the next update, but it may take me longer to sort out those issues.

[olds 15]

Getting ready for the 0.0.3 Alpha release, I want to give a heads up. I've started calibrating the AT weapons and the results are looking good. However... top-attack-capable weapons like the PCML (real-world MBT LAW) do not actually have that ability in Arma. That means when we give it the correct penetration value, it's not all that effective in game. (Basically it functions in direct-attack mode, which the weapon does have, but is weaker that way). For now I'm going to keep the values realistic in the hopes that BIS or some modder makes a top-attack flight profile.

P.S. Yes, I skipped Alpha 0.0.2--that one went down the tubes as I hadn't updated my configs to match the latest BIS update.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Olds

[Jackson Snow 10]

For now I'm going to keep the values realistic in the hopes that BIS or some modder makes a top-attack flight profile.

The TMR mod has top-attack PCML (in addition to a couple of other things, such as predicted line of sight attacks, and adjustments to rifle recoil etc): http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?170579-TMR-Modular-Realism-Alternate (the original version http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?160054-TMR-Modular-Realism describes the PCML adjustments)

Does this mean we'd likely get some nice use of the PCML with your mod and TMR combined?

[olds 15]

Does this mean we'd likely get some nice use of the PCML with your mod and TMR combined?

Thanks for the heads-up Jackson. I checked it out and from what I can see, new TMR stuff inherits from existing ammo configs. As I am changing those base configs, he should inherit the tweaked penetration values at least. (Based on my still rudimentary understanding). Maybe not perfect but pretty good.

[JackusCTB 10]

The TMR mod has top-attack PCML (in addition to a couple of other things, such as predicted line of sight attacks, and adjustments to rifle recoil etc): http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?170579-TMR-Modular-Realism-Alternate (the original version http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?160054-TMR-Modular-Realism describes the PCML adjustments)

Does this mean we'd likely get some nice use of the PCML with your mod and TMR combined?

Shouldn't the Titan AT have top attack feature, instead of the PCML? The Titan is the 2035 version of the FGM-148, more or less...