ALiVE - Advanced Light Infantry Virtual Environment

[SavageCDN 231]

Been away from Alive for a bit but back to it since 0.8 and the C2ISTAR looked really interesting to me. Thoroughly enjoying messing around with it.

However, I reported this speed issue before and in my opinion it is still way too quick. Probably at least 5 times faster than it should be. I just watched a group of Hunter's travel over 2km of brutal terrain (no roads) in about 20-30 seconds. I could see if they were flying down an open highway or something this would be possible but certainly not when they are anticipating combat. I realize you guys are not modelling terrain YET but still, the average speed of vehicles shouldn't be this quick.

They used to be even faster in previous versions (<0.6) and as you mentioned since terrain is not taken into account for virtual profiles it's hard to get a 'common' speed. If you like I can open a ticket on this so that it gets looked at down the road? (pun intended)

I have some quick questions about setting up the modules if anyone would be good enough to provide some insight for.

The first is regarding proper syntax for specifying multiple factions in the faction override dialog box.

Does it require brackets and quotes separated by commas? or just brackets and commas or neither? The tooltip info for various faction override dialog boxes say different things and I'm having difficulty figuring out whether the system is selecting between a variety of factions instead of just choosing one.

When I specify one faction it seems to work well enough, however I'd like a bit of variety. And yes, I've tested both factions I wish to use and both conform to the standards set forth by the devs so they do both spawn. I just have no idea if the system is able to select between them.

The second pertains to overrides for group types, just to confirm do you simply input the preferred number of each type of group you want? That seems how it works, but I'm just trying to get a confirmation because it seems pretty random at times what alive wants to spawn.

And finally regarding the virtual AI system module, is the spawn radius the max distance AI will spawn away from the player, meaning they will spawn anywhere inside that radius or is that the max distance at which AI spawning begins?

1 - factions don't required brackets or quotes just commas

2 - you are correct the number you input defines the number of groups that spawn

3 - spawn radius is the distance at which AI will begin to spawn - despawn distance is 200m > spawn distance (if I recall correctly). AI groups will spawn in if you are less than the spawn distance away

Hello,

I just created a map and placed the Required modules and added the C2ISTAR module.

I left the C2ISTAR with the "LaserDesignator".

I saved the map and went into Multiplayer to test.

In MultiP I am able to pull up the C2ISTAR interface and create a task but I do not see any players to "assign".

I tried making a couple maps and always experience the same issue.

I have tried this WITH NO Mods except CBA and I and tried it WITH Mods. Both ways I cannot "assign players"

Even the auto generate task is not marking anything on the map as well.

C2ISTAR will Auto generate a task in the console window, but nothing appears on map for anyone to see.

Does anyone have any suggestions.

Hmm... you should definitely be able to assign at least yourself to the task (it will only show players, not AI). PM me with a test mission if you still can't get it to work.

I also do have another question regarding alive's applicability for simulating active city/wide battles for example in locations such as fallujah.

By default alive tends to want to assign objectives and lump forces near those objectives leaving the player to either have a massive crapload of ai running about or traverse largely empty streets.

Is there any way to customize alive to provide an experience that provides a better appearance of widespread opposition, or at least designate objectives?

I'm trying instead of using one large TAOR to utilize many and it still seems like the system by default is persnickety about what it considers important, possibly due to the use of legacy A1/A2 type buildings, not sure.

Fallujah is a bit weird on what it decides are civilian objectives... and it does have issues with some of the older buildings. Civilians are a bit weird too they will only spawn at certain structures.

Your best bet is to use custom objectives in areas you want more populated. That in conjunction with multiple CQB modules assigned to different areas with different densities.

[pd3 25]

Thanks for the swift reply, I appreciate it.

I have also gotten a strange error saying that I need to specify military locations within the TAOR.

[SavageCDN 231]

That means that ALiVE is not picking up any locations to use as objectives within the TAOR marker area. What I would suggest is to place a military placement module not linked to a TAOR (so it covers the whole map). Set it to Objectives Only (instead of spawn units). Preview and this will show you all the possible military locations on the map. Screen shot and save it for future reference.

Make sure your TAOR marker(s) cover the centre of the objective you want to use.

[pd3 25]

So it's concurrent with the whole bit of Fallujah being mostly legacy objects and not really of much important to the alive system.

It might be useful to have an objective object, that's not a physical thing, but can be placed in areas to fill in the gap.

I do have just one more simple (I think) question.

Is it possible to encourage ground ai to engage in seek and destroy type behaviors within a given TAOR? Instead of simply hugging the designated objective?

This can be gotten around slightly by adding CQB, but it's not quite the same as having to avoid patrols.

[SavageCDN 231]

^ you can do this now - under ALiVE Military there is a Custom Objective module - place it where you want some action, add a composition if you like (base + statics), set the number of groups to spawn at this objective, and optionally sync it to OPCOM module so that OPCOM controls and uses the groups spawned there.

As for your other question currently no there is no way to 'force' objective groups to perform SAD behaviours.. I think some changes to that are upcoming before 1.0 release but don't quote me on that :p

[friznit2 350]

OPCOM will send out patrols up to 200m from an objective if it has enough groups available to do so - it requires 4 - 5 groups for this, otherwise it will prioritise defence of the location. In general it will move from objective to objective (it has to have something to move between, rather than being completely random - it's an operational commander trying to win the battle, not a random patrol generater!). Placing 'empty' custom objectives is a good work around for older maps that don't have recognisable locations.

[delta99 34]

They used to be even faster in previous versions (<0.6) and as you mentioned since terrain is not taken into account for virtual profiles it's hard to get a 'common' speed. If you like I can open a ticket on this so that it gets looked at down the road? (pun intended)

Even without analyzing terrain a much slower average speed can probably still be put into place. Again, just in my opinion it is just way way too fast.

Would appreciate seeing a ticket on this so if you have time to put one up that would be great.

[d_pfrommer 10]

Hi,

Independent of the multispawn/ammo persistence issue that has been raised, has anyone experienced problems with basic respawning when set to "spawn in squad"?

When synced to a vehicle, it works well; however, when set to squad, it teleports my player (which is part of a group) into the water.

Thoughts?

Thanks

[SavageCDN 231]

Even without analyzing terrain a much slower average speed can probably still be put into place. Again, just in my opinion it is just way way too fast.

Would appreciate seeing a ticket on this so if you have time to put one up that would be great.

https://dev.withsix.com/issues/75395

Hi,

Independent of the multispawn/ammo persistence issue that has been raised, has anyone experienced problems with basic respawning when set to "spawn in squad"?

When synced to a vehicle, it works well; however, when set to squad, it teleports my player (which is part of a group) into the water.

Thoughts?

Thanks

Can't say I've seen that even in testing the spawn on squad/ammo issue. Player always respawned next to AI unit in group.

[reaper lok 82]

I noticed since the 0.8 update that when I use the Combat Support Module and then sync a Arty support module to it that it always spawns THREE Arty vehicles when all I requested was ONE.

Also.....loving the Task System and the ease of updating/editing tasks on the fly....excellent work fellas!

[SavageCDN 231]

^ yes that is a new feature.. it spawns a squad instead of a single arty piece (same with mortars). If you want just one plop down an actual manned arty unit and sync to Combat Support - Arty module

[d_pfrommer 10]

Can't say I've seen that even in testing the spawn on squad/ammo issue. Player always respawned next to AI unit in group.

Have you tested the respawn on squad using a mission with the Virtual AI module included?

I believe I've isolated the issue down to the presence of the Virtual AI module which is interfering with the Multispawn->Spawn on squad functionality.

To reproduce:

- Use Alive and CBA modules only

- Add three NATO units, one set to player and the other two set to playable

- Group the two playable units to the player unit

- Name the leader player1, the other two player2 and player3 respectively

- Add three modules: Requires Alive (using defaults), Virtual AI System (using defaults) and Multispawn (change to Spawn on Squad, enemy check to Yes)

- Start hosted mission (regular skill), play as group leader

- Tell 2 & 3 to "stop"

- Move safe distance away and blow self up with grenade

- Result: Show show "respawning" near group briefly, but then ultimately spawn in water

Based on my observations, it appears that the primary playable unit is still being profiled as the e0 designation is provided on the map alongside the group leader. Perhaps the fixes for avoiding virtualizing unfilled playable units has interfered with the multispawn module?

[reaper lok 82]

^ yes that is a new feature.. it spawns a squad instead of a single arty piece (same with mortars). If you want just one plop down an actual manned arty unit and sync to Combat Support - Arty module

Thanx Savage - I will take a look at this adjustment later, appreciate the tip :)

[Marve_XT 12]

hi , i would like to make my mod iraqi warfare compatible with Alive , kindly check it out & let my know if any further assistance from my side is needed .

[arjay 7]

hi , i would like to make my mod iraqi warfare compatible with Alive , kindly check it out & let my know if any further assistance from my side is needed .

Hi Marve, please see this page on the wiki for ALiVE compatibility:

http://alivemod.com/wiki/index.php/Unit_Mod_Config_Standardisation

[Marve_XT 12]

Hi Marve, please see this page on the wiki for ALiVE compatibility:

http://alivemod.com/wiki/index.php/Unit_Mod_Config_Standardisation

i have checked it already , so far it should be working , shouldn't u test it before u put it in the compatible mods list ?

[kyboshsteinski 10]

hi , i would like to make my mod iraqi warfare compatible with Alive , kindly check it out & let my know if any further assistance from my side is needed .

Yeah Marve I would luuuv to use your mod in ALiVE ...I need some new material!

[friznit2 350]

i have checked it already , so far it should be working , shouldn't u test it before u put it in the compatible mods list ?

It's your mod! If you say it works with ALiVE we'll stick it on the list :) Happy to have more factions fully working!

[pd3 25]

^ you can do this now - under ALiVE Military there is a Custom Objective module - place it where you want some action, add a composition if you like (base + statics), set the number of groups to spawn at this objective, and optionally sync it to OPCOM module so that OPCOM controls and uses the groups spawned there.

As for your other question currently no there is no way to 'force' objective groups to perform SAD behaviours.. I think some changes to that are upcoming before 1.0 release but don't quote me on that :p

Thanks for the info, yeah, I kind of figured as much.

Alive is honestly an amazing bit of kit for mission makers who want to make broad scale engagements involving conventional strategic behaviors, I think I will have to try and work around this problem of mine without overloading my system to create the sort of ambience I want.

---------- Post added at 02:57 ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 ----------

OPCOM will send out patrols up to 200m from an objective if it has enough groups available to do so - it requires 4 - 5 groups for this, otherwise it will prioritise defence of the location. In general it will move from objective to objective (it has to have something to move between, rather than being completely random - it's an operational commander trying to win the battle, not a random patrol generater!). Placing 'empty' custom objectives is a good work around for older maps that don't have recognisable locations.

Yeah, 200m is not really enough unfortunately :/

and considering I'm paying mind to a performance budget I don't think I can simply afford to have that many active groups considering I'm using ALL of fallujah with a total of 72 some-objectives. (Basically you have to go around and destroy every single radio transmitter in the city), long ass mission, but fun as hell in Arma 2 with Thompsonb's flashpoint scripts.

Sadly achieving the same effect with alive would probably require more system than I currently have.

[delta99 34]

https://dev.withsix.com/issues/75395

Appreciate that Savage

---------- Post added at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

Have you tested the respawn on squad using a mission with the Virtual AI module included?

I believe I've isolated the issue down to the presence of the Virtual AI module which is interfering with the Multispawn->Spawn on squad functionality.

To reproduce:

- Use Alive and CBA modules only

- Add three NATO units, one set to player and the other two set to playable

- Group the two playable units to the player unit

- Name the leader player1, the other two player2 and player3 respectively

- Add three modules: Requires Alive (using defaults), Virtual AI System (using defaults) and Multispawn (change to Spawn on Squad, enemy check to Yes)

- Start hosted mission (regular skill), play as group leader

- Tell 2 & 3 to "stop"

- Move safe distance away and blow self up with grenade

- Result: Show show "respawning" near group briefly, but then ultimately spawn in water

Based on my observations, it appears that the primary playable unit is still being profiled as the e0 designation is provided on the map alongside the group leader. Perhaps the fixes for avoiding virtualizing unfilled playable units has interfered with the multispawn module?

I've seen same behavior without same reproduction steps. I just figured multi spawn wasn't working yet so I gave up trying to use it.

[SavageCDN 231]

Have you tested the respawn on squad using a mission with the Virtual AI module included?

I believe I've isolated the issue down to the presence of the Virtual AI module which is interfering with the Multispawn->Spawn on squad functionality.

To reproduce:

- Use Alive and CBA modules only

- Add three NATO units, one set to player and the other two set to playable

- Group the two playable units to the player unit

- Name the leader player1, the other two player2 and player3 respectively

- Add three modules: Requires Alive (using defaults), Virtual AI System (using defaults) and Multispawn (change to Spawn on Squad, enemy check to Yes)

- Start hosted mission (regular skill), play as group leader

- Tell 2 & 3 to "stop"

- Move safe distance away and blow self up with grenade

- Result: Show show "respawning" near group briefly, but then ultimately spawn in water

Based on my observations, it appears that the primary playable unit is still being profiled as the e0 designation is provided on the map alongside the group leader. Perhaps the fixes for avoiding virtualizing unfilled playable units has interfered with the multispawn module?

Thanks I'm going to open up a new ticket with these details.... Asset if you have a test mission of this already you can PM me and I'll add it to the ticket. Also your tests were in MP hosted not dedicated server correct? Also can you confirm you respawn at [0,0,0] on the map?

https://dev.withsix.com/issues/75426

Edited October 10, 2014 by SavageCDN
added link to ticket

[highhead 20]

Appreciate that Savage

---------- Post added at 23:32 ---------- Previous post was at 23:30 ----------

I've seen same behavior without same reproduction steps. I just figured multi spawn wasn't working yet so I gave up trying to use it.

Hey Delta and Asset!

Multispawn overall is working fine, but you are right, your "spawn on squad" issue its related to Virtual AI System, that despawns the units!

There are 3 ways to solve that (I tested them and it works):

- Don't virtualise the players group by syncing it to the Virtual AI system and using the appropriate settings to avoid profiling of this group(s)

- Place a "respawn_%Side%" marker

- If you dont use a "respawn_%side%" marker (and only use one side for players) then place the Multispawn module at the position where you want to have a default respawn and not over water.

Of course im going to look into it some more, but thats how you can solve that for now!

[d_pfrommer 10]

Hey Delta and Asset!

Multispawn overall is working fine, but you are right, your "spawn on squad" issue its related to Virtual AI System, that despawns the units!

There are 3 ways to solve that (I tested them and it works):

- Don't virtualise the players group by syncing it to the Virtual AI system and using the appropriate settings to avoid profiling of this group(s)

- Place a "respawn_%Side%" marker

- If you dont use a "respawn_%side%" marker (and only use one side for players) then place the Multispawn module at the position where you want to have a default respawn and not over water.

Of course im going to look into it some more, but thats how you can solve that for now!

Thanks, highhead.

Much appreciated workaround!

[reaper lok 82]

Thanx Savage - I will take a look at this adjustment later, appreciate the tip :)

^ yes that is a new feature.. it spawns a squad instead of a single arty piece (same with mortars). If you want just one plop down an actual manned arty unit and sync to Combat Support - Arty module

Hmmmmm....I could not get this to work, have you attempted this feature? For me it shows Arty Support but no Unit available (not even the synced manned unit).

[delta99 34]

Hey Delta and Asset!

Multispawn overall is working fine, but you are right, your "spawn on squad" issue its related to Virtual AI System, that despawns the units!

There are 3 ways to solve that (I tested them and it works):

- Don't virtualise the players group by syncing it to the Virtual AI system and using the appropriate settings to avoid profiling of this group(s)

- Place a "respawn_%Side%" marker

- If you dont use a "respawn_%side%" marker (and only use one side for players) then place the Multispawn module at the position where you want to have a default respawn and not over water.

Of course im going to look into it some more, but thats how you can solve that for now!

in my case I did have a respawn_west marker down I believe but the multspawn module was over water. I will try moving it to land and see if that helps the situation any.