Grenade Implementation

[Chocolate 1]

So Arma 3 is "Authentic" *Ahem* Which I guess means judging from many aspects of the game design, it attempts to provide a realistic combat sandbox...

With that said, why is the current system, "G" for grenade? Then Poof, grenade flies out. In PvP this means a lot of fights have instant grenade combat almost without either player letting off the trigger.

It wouldn't seem unreasonable or difficult to simply make the player hit "G" but then there is a, lets say 5 second, animation for taking out the grenade. Then Holding down "G" can prime and cook the grenade or just by hitting it, you prime the grenade and throw it. KEY ASPECT BEING: Your guy actually has to use his hands to take the grenade out of its pouch/ whatever location. That doesn't necessarily have to be animated in detail, but represented in respect to time and inability to shoot/shoot accurately while *$%King with your gear.

What do you think? Comment below. I saw no other threads on grenades. Maybe there is a tracker, IDK.

[Tacti-Cool 10]

It was like how you described in A2, where you actually had to "Equip" the grenade before throwing.

[rye1 21]

He's also describing where an animation takes the grenade out and unpins it too so you don't just chuck it out of nowhere. +1000.

[Smurf 12]

Read: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?147659-The-Grenade-Thread&p=2441792&viewfull=1#post2441792

It is more an animation problem than anything else, in A2 you was "locked" in the throw animation which wasn't very good. I'm holding my breath on Smookie's proposal for animation changes to see what happens.

And I agree that grenades, explosives and pretty much anything else should be equipable.

[rinkia 10]

+1000 this must be implemented in a way or another, from BIS or from someone else.

[scrim 1]

"Equipping" grenades before tossing them, yes. Instituting a delay before throwing them, no. That wouldn't be very funny or realistic the moment an enemy comes around the corner and you can't raise your rifle to fire at him because you're stuck in a "realism" delay for the grenade.

[roshnak 41]

If we are going to have to equip grenades before throwing them we really need a better system for switching weapons. Maybe something more like every other game in history does and use the number keys.

[jaemn 10]

I would like a key to throw grenades, but with a brief animation required before actually throwing it. In an ideal world, releasing the grenade key before the animation is finished would cancel the animation, and re-shoulder your rifle.

Throwing a grenade shouldn't be instant, but it also shouldn't be an uncancellable commitment to a long animation.

e:

The stock first aid module in ArmA 2 was a pretty good example of what not to do. I was playing a mission with ACE, but with stock first-aid. I started healing somebody too close to a burning car. All of Ventrilo burst into laughter as my character burned to death, trapped in the first aid animation, screaming the entire time.

Edited December 1, 2013 by jaemn

[Chocolate 1]

"Equipping" grenades before tossing them, yes. Instituting a delay before throwing them, no. That wouldn't be very funny or realistic the moment an enemy comes around the corner and you can't raise your rifle to fire at him because you're stuck in a "realism" delay for the grenade.

Well, I get what you are saying, but grenades take two hands to use. I've used them in real life, and maybe there are some really pro bad-a$$es out there that can John Wayne the pin out of the grenade with their teeth or something. For mortal men however, it does actually take slinging your rifle and removing the grenade, then the pin while maintaining a firm grip on the safety spoon. So, yeah, it is lame when you are locked into animations I agree, but there has to be a give and take. Teamwork also helps eliminate the danger of being shot in this situation.

[dnk 13]

If it's just animations, I'd prefer we got something clunky and realistic now than waiting months for pretty and realistic. I would really love an America's Army type deal, with multiple throw modes, and the ability to take the pin out, even cook it (even if that's technically unrealistic by training standards).

I'd also like a UI element that lets you know where the grenade is going to land/hit - like a circle that displays on the terrain/object where the point of impact is calculated. It's a bit gamey, but in real life I have a pretty decent idea of where something I throw will land, while in this game it takes a lot of practice just to get it within 10 feet.

[progamer 14]

If it's just animations, I'd prefer we got something clunky and realistic now than waiting months for pretty and realistic. I would really love an America's Army type deal, with multiple throw modes, and the ability to take the pin out, even cook it (even if that's technically unrealistic by training standards).

I'd also like a UI element that lets you know where the grenade is going to land/hit - like a circle that displays on the terrain/object where the point of impact is calculated. It's a bit gamey, but in real life I have a pretty decent idea of where something I throw will land, while in this game it takes a lot of practice just to get it within 10 feet.

You should have a good idea in game then because in real life you have no indicator. We do need grenade throwing to be more realistic and not some stupid delay or magic grenades from nowhere.

Don't tack on things for arcade games either, we don't need to draw those types of players or gameplay. Realism is better.

[rye1 21]

I would really love an America's Army type deal, with multiple throw modes, and the ability to take the pin out, even cook it (even if that's technically unrealistic by training standards).

America's Army has the best grenade system imo, hasn't been matched to date.

[roshnak 41]

If it's just animations, I'd prefer we got something clunky and realistic now than waiting months for pretty and realistic. I would really love an America's Army type deal, with multiple throw modes, and the ability to take the pin out, even cook it (even if that's technically unrealistic by training standards).

I'd also like a UI element that lets you know where the grenade is going to land/hit - like a circle that displays on the terrain/object where the point of impact is calculated. It's a bit gamey, but in real life I have a pretty decent idea of where something I throw will land, while in this game it takes a lot of practice just to get it within 10 feet.

I agree with pretty much everything you have to say except the part about anything being clunky ever.

Don't tack on things for arcade games either, we don't need to draw those types of players or gameplay. Realism is better.

This seems pretty exclusionary. Not a great way to grow the community.

Edited November 28, 2013 by roshnak

[CaptainObvious 95]

You should have a good idea in game then because in real life you have no indicator.

What?

[swiftn7 1]

If it's just animations, I'd prefer we got something clunky and realistic now than waiting months for pretty and realistic. I would really love an America's Army type deal, with multiple throw modes, and the ability to take the pin out, even cook it (even if that's technically unrealistic by training standards).

I'd also like a UI element that lets you know where the grenade is going to land/hit - like a circle that displays on the terrain/object where the point of impact is calculated. It's a bit gamey, but in real life I have a pretty decent idea of where something I throw will land, while in this game it takes a lot of practice just to get it within 10 feet.

Connected to this we would also need some indication for the force we use, because atm it feels like you have no control about how far or near you throw that ugly little thing.

You should have a good idea in game then because in real life you have no indicator. We do need grenade throwing to be more realistic and not some stupid delay or magic grenades from nowhere.

Don't tack on things for arcade games either, we don't need to draw those types of players or gameplay. Realism is better. [/Quote]

So for the realism you would like something like:

1. Put away the rifle

2. Get the grenade from your gear

3. Pull the pin

4. Aim for your target

(5. Cook the grenade)

6. Throw that thingy

?

Edited November 28, 2013 by SwiftN7

[jgbtl292 0]

If we are going to have to equip grenades before throwing them we really need a better system for switching weapons. Maybe something more like every other game in history does and use the number keys.

for waht ? its in your hands to bind your own weapons swich keys !! you will numer keys - go in your options and make it ...

[13islucky 10]

Remember Dslyecxi's (finally managed to spell it without looking it up) video on proper grenade implementation? It has some very valid points on grenade implementation.

[St. Jimmy 272]

Connected to this we would also need some indication for the force we use, because atm it feels like you have no control about how far or near you throw that ugly little thing.

So for the realism you would like something like:

1. Put away the rifle

2. Get the grenade from your gear

3. Pull the pin

4. Aim for your target

(5. Cook the grenade)

6. Throw that thingy

?

I'd prefer press 5 to equip grenade like in many other games. Now the grenade is in your hand and when you click you'll throw it or when you hold hold your fire button the grenade cooks or when you hold the fire button you'll throw it further. Simple and works. But then comes the Arma animation system that can screw all the things.

[jgbtl292 0]

you need free keys ? i have it in german is nice ^^

[rye1 21]

I'd prefer press 5 to equip grenade like in many other games. Now the grenade is in your hand and when you click you'll throw it or when you hold hold your fire button the grenade cooks or when you hold the fire button you'll throw it further. Simple and works. But then comes the Arma animation system that can screw all the things.

The thing about America's Army that was great was that there was no "hold to throw it further". You pulled and aimed it, the strength was default. You had a point of reference being the guys finger. If it was a "click and throw" thing there would need to be a point of reference. I think the strength thing is bad because it's not intuitive, it's widely variable and often you don't need strength, you need accuracy.

[scrim 1]

Well, I get what you are saying, but grenades take two hands to use. I've used them in real life, and maybe there are some really pro bad-a$$es out there that can John Wayne the pin out of the grenade with their teeth or something. For mortal men however, it does actually take slinging your rifle and removing the grenade, then the pin while maintaining a firm grip on the safety spoon. So, yeah, it is lame when you are locked into animations I agree, but there has to be a give and take. Teamwork also helps eliminate the danger of being shot in this situation.

Well, most soldiers nowadays have some sort of "tactical" sling, so they don't have to put the rifle on their back. But to the point, what I meant was that you shouldn't be locked into anything because IRL, if an enemy comes around the corner when you're half way into throwing a grenade, you can simply drop it on the ground (hopefully you haven't pulled the pin yet), and grab your rifle. You're not forced to finish the throw. That's what I meant.

[MANTIA 55]

It definitely needs to be "more of a chore" to throw grenades in Arma. In real life grenades are carefully stored in grenade pouches, Assault packs, taped up, ect. I'd say a good 6-10 second at the fastest executed.

It is harder to throw with the "tactical" single point slings than most people realize because the weapon flops everywhere. In most instances I've seen soldiers unhook their weapon from their single point sling to toss a grenade. Which also brings up another factor in the weight of a grenade. Grenades are pretty damn heavy when compared to most things that humans throw overhand. It is a lot harder than throwing a baseball for instance. Way back in BASIC training I remember thinking I was gunna chuck that damn grenade so far because I was a baseball pitcher in college..... haha nope.

[EDcase 87]

This conversation is funny because there was exactly the opposite argument in ARMA2: "Need a single button to throw grenade rather than having to select it first" :D

The most important thing I want to see is a way to vary throw strength.

Its so annoying to have an enemy on the other side of a wall and not being able to short throw over. Instead it goes over the whole property.

Holding the key for strength would conflict with cooking. I think strength is more important.

And I agree that there needs to be an animation (delay) before throwing but only a couple of seconds for gameplay sake.

[roshnak 41]

The problem with Arma 2 was that the throw animation was terrible and locked you in place. Arma 3's system is a huge improvement on that, but there is still room for tweaking.

Oh, and 6-10 seconds is way too long for something that you are probably going to be doing while people are shooting at you.

[eXpouk 10]

Oh, and 6-10 seconds is way too long for something that you are probably going to be doing while people are shooting at you.

Well if thats how long it takes in real life to throw a grenade it should be the same in Arma.