AI ignoring commands when in combat...

[wingnutt270 10]

I remember this issue from ARMA2, glad to see its alive and well.

Was testing a hit and run type mission only to get stuck trying to get my AI teammates to egress the area..

I had 4 subordinate units, with around 15 pissed off enemy coming up a hill to us. No matter what I told them.. return to formation, move to.. GET UP .. they just stayed put, and all eventually died.

I had to command them individually since once you put them on a team you cannot give "move to" commands :d:

I notice its like they WANT to do what Im saying for a split second, but my commands get overridden.. watching a soldier 50 or so meters away, hes not getting fired upon, yet, but he is prone and in "danger" mode.

I till him to GET UP and return to formation, he stands, takes a step or two towards me, then turns around and gets back down and lays there. IF.. IF they do actually start moving in the direction i tell them to... it goes something like this..

Get up... move 5 feet.. stand still... lay down.... turn around.. get up... move a few feet.. stop.. stand still... lay down... repeat... Over and over until they are finally caught and killed.

Is there any way to make them just GO.. ignore their "perceived" threat and just do what the heck I say?

their logic doesn't seem understand that staying down and not moving is not a good idea when the enemy already knows where you are and is coming right at you in vastly superior numbers.

I remember there was a similar bug that I *THINK* was addressed in A2... where AI would refuse to board a vehicle if they perceived a threat... you could successfully get your squad to a chopper to evac only to have them refuse to board and linger around the board till killed.

[chompster 29]

been noticing this as well, they just outright ignore you or do something completely different.

like the Scuba team with 2 subs. if you spawn as one of the subs and tell 2 loose divers to get in the other sub as passangers, the sub will just go off somewhere for some reason.

[MissionCreep 12]

I find this too ... could be they are injured or exhausted (?). I find for me this happens most later in the mission and usually after a fair bit of action. Whatever the cause, they are pretty much doomed once this happens.

[wingnutt270 10]

I find this too ... could be they are injured or exhausted (?). I find for me this happens most later in the mission and usually after a fair bit of action. Whatever the cause, they are pretty much doomed once this happens.

Fatigue? Interesting, didn't think of that. Mine seem to act less like they have fatigue, and more like they are blind and suffer short term memory loss.

I can totally understand and appreciate them having a sense of survival and wanting to hunker down if taking fire.. but when its time to bug out... gotta go son.

[Harry Canyon 10]

I've about given up on Ai. I made a battle with a couple of units on each side the other day. They all just stood there and stared at each other. Finally, I saw one Iranian heli come over and attack the blue team. The blue team just stood there, then the heli stopped firing and just hovered. I worked with it for about an hour, then just gave up.

[jgbtl292 0]

jip tzhe same with the drivers- is a enemy near you have no chance more to give commands. 7-4 will no more ... and the driver drive horribe direckt in the enemy ^^ or go a very wide way around ^^ what will you commander piss off i make my game :D

or better you drive the tank or abc or what ever. the gunner fired fired and then middle in the battle - he goes with the cannon on the direcktion froom enemy - but he don#t fire on them ..... and with a ai dirver in a battle in a urban area is .... puh

or you go in a boat as driver - you are the leader from the group ! you go on commander place and the driver hear not more off your commands ... he drives to a other side ... no chance to command him.

Edited November 11, 2013 by JgBtl292

[Azzur33 1]

I till him to GET UP and return to formation, he stands, takes a step or two towards me, then turns around and gets back down and lays there. IF.. IF they do actually start moving in the direction i tell them to... it goes something like this..

Get up... move 5 feet.. stand still... lay down.... turn around.. get up... move a few feet.. stop.. stand still... lay down... repeat... Over and over until they are finally caught and killed.

Is there any way to make them just GO.. ignore their "perceived" threat and just do what the heck I say?

Use HOLD FIRE, DISENGAGE and MOVE TO. STAND UP makes them a little faster. That should work perfectly.

They won't stop to shoot back anymore.

Return to formation is not that good when retreating, as trying to keep up with you in formation is not effective enough to get away quickly.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Azzur33

[wingnutt270 10]

Use HOLD FIRE, DISENGAGE and MOVE TO. STAND UP makes them a little faster. That should work perfectly.

They won't stop to shoot back anymore.

Return to formation is not that good when retreating, as trying to keep up with you in formation is not effective enough to get away quickly.

They won't hold fire if an enemy that has fired on them anyway is still in their sight.

[Azzur33 1]

They won't hold fire if an enemy that has fired on them anyway is still in their sight.

If a group member is already aiming/shooting at a target which is shooting at them, they should shoot, rather than stand up and run. That would be logical.

He is almost doomed anyway, but has better chance to survive if you let him (try to) kill the one.

Once (and if) he gets the enemy, he'll follow.

If they are "safe enough" to move, they'll move to the direction they are told to go, even under heavy fire and getting hit, and do not break the hold fire -command and stop for shooting back.

I have done this succesfully many many times, so there shouldn't be any major problem here with AI behaviour.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Azzur33

[GShock 10]

Just spent the last 10 minutes laughing at my #5 who's tasked to shoot a tank with an RPG.

I shoot the tank with mine... the other guy lets himself be killed by the same tank after standing out of cover for 10" just next to me, hiding behind a rock instead.

5" later, I grab his RPG and shoot the tank again, this time putting it out of action.

For the records: my #2 and #3 are in a HMG car, blocked in the town 600m behind us and are not responding to my move orders. Probably jammed onto a wall, happens frequently.

No further comments needed about the situation...

[sbua16 19]

Use HOLD FIRE, DISENGAGE and MOVE TO. STAND UP makes them a little faster. That should work perfectly.

They won't stop to shoot back anymore.

Return to formation is not that good when retreating, as trying to keep up with you in formation is not effective enough to get away quickly.

So we have to make 10 keystrokes (or there abouts) just to make an AI move somewhere.

Wow, it's almost like they haven't updated the AI/command structure in 12 years.. oh wait, that's exactly what's happened.

[wingnutt270 10]

If a group member is already aiming/shooting at a target which is shooting at them, they should shoot, rather than stand up and run. That would be logical.

He is almost doomed anyway, but has better chance to survive if you let him (try to) kill them/QUOTE]

Problem with this strategy is if that enemy is 1k away taking pot shots As he and his 20 buddies advance.. The Ai soldier just stays and plugs away, he has no concept of the idea of being overrun. .. And because he will not obay my orders that's exactly what is destine to happen

Edited November 11, 2013 by Wingnutt270

[GottyPlays 10]

wow i came back after few months that i had to stop with this game due to headaches, i expected bis to fix these problems...well probably it's not even worth to download the campaign update?

[wingnutt270 10]

ITs still really fun, its just VERY aggravating when your half an hour into a otherwise REALLY fun mission only to have the entire thing derailed by uncooperative AI.

I would rather they refuse to advance because of a threat, then have them refused to flee because of it.

I don't care how brave you are, if you have a massive enemy formation coming at you and have your position pinpointed, and your commanding officer says "FALL BACK!" You will.. happily so

[Azzur33 1]

So we have to make 10 keystrokes (or there abouts) just to make an AI move somewhere.

Wow, it's almost like they haven't updated the AI/command structure in 12 years.. oh wait, that's exactly what's happened.

The case here was not "Just to make an AI move somewhere", but make AI retreat quickly from a combat situation.

If you know what you are doing, you can give the orders in couple of seconds.

What if there was some nice fancy click and select "Retreat immediately and dont look back!" -command, it would take about the same time.

Or more?

Having all the possible combinations of AI group behaviour under one menu and finding the one you want to use?

With few keystrokes you can assign teams, set their behaviour and give them tasks, change formations, give targets, check their status, make then gear up, and so on. You can select single units, teams or the whole group and make them do things. Just few quick keystrokes.

So why change it? So you don't have to memorize things?

What is your suggestion then?

---------- Post added at 16:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

I don't care how brave you are, if you have a massive enemy formation coming at you and have your position pinpointed, and your commanding officer says "FALL BACK!" You will.. happily so

If you have a massive enemy formation coming at you and have your position pinpointed, you are still screwed.

You can fight until they'll get you, or you can run and be shot in the back.

We might need some "Drop everything and run like hell and pray" button, sure.

But until that, HOLD FIRE->MOVE TO (somewhere "safe") may save some of the group. Otherwise they'll just fight to the end.

[wingnutt270 10]

If you have a massive enemy formation coming at you and have your position pinpointed, you are still screwed.

You can fight until they'll get you, or you can run and be shot in the back.

We might need some "Drop everything and run like hell and pray" button, sure.

But until that, HOLD FIRE->MOVE TO (somewhere "safe") may save some of the group. Otherwise they'll just fight to the end.

You are failing to comprehend the problem

Im not talking about a "danger close" scenario..

EXAMPLE: You spot an enemy convoy 1.5K away, you and 4 AI. 3 trucks 10 enemy in each.. 30+ enemy

at 1000M you fire MP rocket and disable the lead vehicle.. enemy troops begin to dismount and fire. You and your men open fire while the enemy is disoriented..

Ok, enemy is starting to figure shit out, they are still by the vehicles 1K away but some have began to fire sporadically at you.

For whatever reason (it doesn't matter for the sake of the example) You decide to drop back over the hill out of the line of fire, perhaps to pick a better spot, perhaps to tend to a wounded... whatever.. doesn't matter.

Nearest enemy contact is still 1000 meters away, your not by any means "pinned down" or anything remotely close to it.

Ok, Fall back...

NOPE..

Your men will not move, and they never will.. they will stay right the hell where they are until the very pissed off remainder of the convoy you attacked slowly works its way to them, and then kills the shit out of them, all of them.

THAT is the problem...

[VanZant 48]

Use the file formation in combat/danger mode and your team will follow you. Very useful when things are going bad ...

[wingnutt270 10]

Use the file formation in combat/danger mode and your team will follow you. Very useful when things are going bad ...

That seems to work BRIEFLY.. like if I tell them its safe and to stand then to return to formation..

They will stand... maybe take a few steps to me, then stop... then get back down..

ITs like they get the command, but it is quickly overridden by their "programming"

[Azzur33 1]

THAT is the problem...

Oh MAN.

That should be even easier. I've had problems only with closer distances and worse scenarios, never in rather safe situations.

I tried a similar scenario, making sure that the enemy was spotted, and the enemy was shooting back, closing in, from 1000-600 meters.

Multiple times. Worked every single time.

The same principle: They NEED to be told to Hold Fire.

If that just doesn't work, you should post the mission somewhere so we and the devs could see if there is something wrong going on.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Azzur33

[ATTACKM0DE 10]

the ai need some kind of reset function. it seems after ordering them around as a group then individually, that that they lose their way. they just stop. its a major problem that I seen in A2 also.

[ofpsince06 11]

The problem with the vanilla AI is that they do not do anything that resembles a cohesive unit. Only through mods do the AI resemble some sort of trained force. There is no bounding, successive bounds, fire-teams that actually behave like fire-teams, etc. Whenever you issue an order they do not effectively carry out it either. It's really immersion killing whenever it seems like the majority sits back doing nothing while one AI just waddles across the plain to get overwhelmed.

[Bouben 3]

To the OP: do you use any mods? If so, disable them and test again. If no mods used, then use file or diamond formation and run away - the more distance between you and your team the more urgent will it be for them to keep formation with you. Hold fire "might" work sometimes but the thing is, when under fire the hold fire tends to get reset to open fire. Moreover the hold fire does not prevent the AI to constantly CHECK the enemy and area around and therefore standing and stupidly staring.

I wonder how many confused/criticising threads about AI need to be made so that BIS finally give the AI (and commanding) the biggest priority in the development instead of programming other "neat" features while leaving the half-done ones in status quo for years.

[tmp95 16]

I wonder how many confused/criticising threads about AI need to be made so that BIS finally give the AI (and commanding) the biggest priority in the development instead of programming other "neat" features while leaving the half-done ones in status quo for years.

+1000 - A3 has gone from me being surprisingly happy with (first several hours of gameplay) to being completely un-happy with (haven't played in a week) because of the terrible AI.

[GShock 10]

I am now in a situation with a BMP 300m east, stuck on some rocks and bushes. Easy prey even for my #5 AI and his pcml. I name the tgt, then order to engage. He killed half the team with his rocket (I repeat, BMP 300m east).

I restart, I send him there again while we go elsewhere... there's a tower and a whole area to clear. We're simultaneously engaged on 2 sides (front and right). I use 2 clips to shoot dead 3 soldiers from 300 m (they are all stuck on the ladder of that tower) while going prone/crouch behind a stonewall. My AI dead one by one in the open, me dead obviously fighting 20 with just me and some retarded AI who can't use cover unless I manually move them one by one.

My AutoRifleman is not suppressing, my grenadier is not bombing and the enemy is hitting me from 300m away without zoomed sights... Something like a pixel-sized target coming up from a stonewall from the distance.

This game has a limited enjoyment when using TPW+WW mods but even then, I think the problem is not the AI but the choice to employ one.

It's too complex to make it work, it's not really their fault, and I think it would be more productive for us (the players) and them (the DEVs) if a sound choice was taken to devote this game entirely to multiplayer and leave the AI to handle civilians with easy patterns (run away from fights, hide and, more in general, populate what is right now a beautiful ghost island).

It's not an illogical choice come to think of it: We have the numbers and lots of manpower would be released to work on the flight model, clipping, damage model, advanced weapon systems, environmental effects, etc. etc. etc.

[NeMeSiS 11]

and I think it would be more productive for us (the players) and them (the DEVs) if a sound choice was taken to devote this game entirely to multiplayer and leave the AI to handle civilians with easy patterns (run away from fights, hide and, more in general, populate what is right now a beautiful ghost island).

*profanity*