After ArmA, ArmA2 and ArmA3 the game is just still disappointing

[GShock 10]

With an army of trolls systematically denying the evidence of the engine problems and moderators who close threads when the OP reporting them is assaulted (while saying those issues exist!!!), I can't foresee a bright future for this game, given the current state of development and the enormous competition in this niche.

(You know that sales matter, right?)

After so long in this 3d world and being at the third episode, you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m, regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

While your LOS and LOF are blocked by things that are supposed to cover you, the AI nonchalantly kills you so, in the end, you find yourself more at ease without cover than with cover which is the exact opposite of what happens in real life just because the engine can't handle it correctly (from which a HUGE series of issues derive).

Your rifle clips through these things that are supposed to give you cover and you never actually know whether you're shooting at a target or an enemy in the scope, unless you open fire... at which point, the AI will start shooting back at you and eventually kill you more easily from the open than you can kill them from behind cover.

Every time I pick the game up, after a few patches to the DEV branch, I leave it disgusted within minutes and I can't see any progress on the really important things while all around me, people say that what I am experiencing is not happening.

That's discouraging and spells no good for this engine... At least I'd like to HOPE for this engine to improve but with that attitude it's rather hard to.

[Greenfist 1863]

After so long in this 3d world and being at the third episode, you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m, regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

I haven't really encountered this myself. Is it a known bug in hit registration or something? My enemies generally can't take more than 5 hits. Sure it can take me an entire clip to score those hits, but that's my problem.

Have you tried lowering the AI skill setting? It makes a huge difference.

I think your LOS/LOF issue was covered quite thoroughly in the clipping thread, should we discuss it more or is this thread for expressing more general feeling of disappointment? In that case, my biggest disappointment lies in the lack of futuristic high tech equipment in the game. I can't even say what am I missing really but being set in the year 2035 the only futuristic thing being independent fighting vehicles just doesn't seem enough. But all things considered, the game has left me more satisfied than disappointed.

[mistyronin 1181]

I haven't really encountered this myself. Is it a known bug in hit registration or something? My enemies generally can't take more than 5 hits. Sure it can take me an entire clip to score those hits, but that's my problem.

Have you tried lowering the AI skill setting? It makes a huge difference.

Neither do I, I tend to be able to kill one enemy with one or two shoots, BTW I always take cover beyond rocks / trees / buildings; and again never had any issue.

I believe you should report it with the feedback tracker, to see if more people share that issue, and giving more technical data to the devs to correct it.

[dmarkwick 261]

With an army of trolls systematically denying the evidence of the engine problems and moderators who close threads when the OP reporting them is assaulted (while saying those issues exist!!!), I can't foresee a bright future for this game, given the current state of development and the enormous competition in this niche.

(You know that sales matter, right?)

After so long in this 3d world and being at the third episode, you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m, regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

As has been mentioned, if the AI are sharpshooting you, turn their abilities down. I find that a high AI ability in everything but aim and target acquisition helps. It makes for longer more interesting firefights.

While your LOS and LOF are blocked by things that are supposed to cover you, the AI nonchalantly kills you so, in the end, you find yourself more at ease without cover than with cover which is the exact opposite of what happens in real life just because the engine can't handle it correctly (from which a HUGE series of issues derive).

Your rifle clips through these things that are supposed to give you cover and you never actually know whether you're shooting at a target or an enemy in the scope, unless you open fire... at which point, the AI will start shooting back at you and eventually kill you more easily from the open than you can kill them from behind cover.

I doubt this needs to be covered again, your catastrophic incomprehension of this mechanic (which is realistic IMO) is well documented.

Every time I pick the game up, after a few patches to the DEV branch, I leave it disgusted within minutes and I can't see any progress on the really important things while all around me, people say that what I am experiencing is not happening.

That's discouraging and spells no good for this engine... At least I'd like to HOPE for this engine to improve but with that attitude it's rather hard to.

All I can suggest is that you don't like the game. It's no biggie. Myself, I like it very much. Sure there are areas that I think are needing improvements, but when aren't there? :) everyone has their own personal bugbears.

[steele6 0]

With an army of trolls systematically denying the evidence of the engine problems

Lol, examples please?

remember those clunky animations from OFP to arma 2? well, with engine improvements, they are gone in arma3! so they CAN fix engine problems.

outside of the clunky animations from previous iterations, there are no major problems with the arma 3 engine.

performance is difficult under all engines, its not feasible to "start again" with a new engine, neither is it practical to licence an engine such as cryengine 3 (cost)

enormous competition in this niche.

no, there is no competition in this league. COD/BF3 are not realistic shooters, by any sense of the word. even BF2, which the old school gamers loved.

(You know that sales matter, right?)

just because there isn't a market for a product, doesnt mean it won't sell. consider the case of Star citizen. most developers/publishers considered it a dead market. yet it has raised 26 million green backs from DONATIONS!

you could also mention innovators like Steve Jobs here.

you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m

1), are you running mods?

2) this is impossible, if I ain't tweaked my super -AI settings and run the game on regular difficulty, this does not occur. either something is wrong with your mods that you have installed, or you fail to appreciate the fact that, in arma, it takes maybe 3 or 4 rounds (if rifle ammo) to kill someone. I think thats fair, reasonable, and its adjustable.

regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

AI is quite accurate, yes, I'd love it to be tuned down, so that suppressive fire is used more than "killing" fire. not to the innacuracy of AI in COD/Bf3/OFP:DR, but the dev's are working on this.

wind? i can't imagine this being a factor at 300m.

cover? well, when i hit the deck behind a rock, they can't hit me. simple. I've even been able to position myself behind a tree (quite a thin trunk, ) and they can't hurt me. its all about positioning and blocking line of sight.

[Find] [myself] more at ease without cover than with cover

yo're exaggerating, its not... helping your arguments. you appear to be younger than you probably are.

the AI is deadly if I'm out of cover, within 300m, if I'm in cover, no problem. i can't play the game like COD/bf3. I like it like that.

Your rifle clips through these things that are supposed to give you cover

1) while I do take cover behind rocks, I don't hug the thing, and the target reticle shows you if you are aiming at the rock. stick your head out a bit more, and shoot. its really no big deal. I can't understand why people complain about this.

this problem is maybe only credible when fighting in CQB, in houses. in urban enviroments its fine. unless you go into a house. switching to pistols/smg's would be better anyway.

Every time I pick the game up, after a few patches to the DEV branch, I leave it disgusted within minutes

programmers/artists/ designers can't change things in a day. or a week. serious problems take longer. the animation fixes took about two years ( on and off, given arma3's development history. )

also, they "feature lock" stuff when it gets close to a proper update/campaign episode release.

maybe just ignore the game, and come back in three months with an open mind, and a better, positive attitude, given that BIS is run by humans, not by God, who can click fingers and make stuff happen.

[Greenfist 1863]

AI accuracy seems to depend on how long has he had a line of sight to you. If they just spotted you, the first 1-3 rounds wouldn't hit the broad side of the barn. Then it gradually becomes more accurate if you don't get completely out of sight or move. Eventually they'll hit you in any exposed part bigger than two inches from 200m. I'd say that's really realistic in fact.

[baloo666 10]

maybe just ignore the game, and come back in three months with an open mind, and a better, positive attitude, given that BIS is run by humans, not by God, who can click fingers and make stuff happen. <------ LOVE IT cuz when you do you have to explore again find out whats new etc. Its like a brand new game evry time you do that :D

As a combat medic ive seen and heard people have taken shots to the body still manage to turn around empty thire clips in rage and then run away whit the rest of the group+ seen poeple takeing a shot to the elbov fall down screaming "im dieing", so please some 1 define "realistic".

btw for the distance, well if a human can shoot of the head of an legoman on 400 meters why should AI not be abble to shoot you in the pelvis at 200 meters, after aming at you for 5 seconds. Which it ruffly will take in real life, from seening the enemy to fireing the first aimed shot. I am supriced how terrible they shoot some times.

Maybe they should lower the fire rate to 1-2 shots then a burst or something, no many army`s shoot whit thíer rifles on auto....

Edited November 5, 2013 by baloo666

[Greenfist 1863]

Well this is only a game. Maybe we shouldn't use the term 'realistic', but authentic/believable maybe even playable instead.

[steele6 0]

As a combat medic ive seen and heard people have taken shots to the body still manage to turn around empty thire clips in rage and then run away whit the rest of the group+ seen poeple takeing a shot to the elbov fall down screaming "im dieing", so please some 1 define "realistic".

indeed, while I aint been shot at, in Black Hawk Down by that mark bowden fella, the US forces used "green point" ammo, which penetrated stuff, but it didnt kill you out right, you didnt "stay down" some tough, wiry, african fella's could laugh it off, and keep shooting.*

*albeit with some khat to get the heart racing a bit faster.

[baloo666 10]

I do remember its a game "on the computer" :). yea the khat is common used and its a bit scary cuz they allmost gain super powers for a short while unless its a straight vital kill :s

[Enrico 1]

With an army of trolls systematically denying the evidence of the engine problems and moderators who close threads when the OP reporting them is assaulted (while saying those issues exist!!!), I can't foresee a bright future for this game, given the current state of development and the enormous competition in this niche.

(You know that sales matter, right?)

After so long in this 3d world and being at the third episode, you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m, regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

While your LOS and LOF are blocked by things that are supposed to cover you, the AI nonchalantly kills you so, in the end, you find yourself more at ease without cover than with cover which is the exact opposite of what happens in real life just because the engine can't handle it correctly (from which a HUGE series of issues derive).

Your rifle clips through these things that are supposed to give you cover and you never actually know whether you're shooting at a target or an enemy in the scope, unless you open fire... at which point, the AI will start shooting back at you and eventually kill you more easily from the open than you can kill them from behind cover.

Every time I pick the game up, after a few patches to the DEV branch, I leave it disgusted within minutes and I can't see any progress on the really important things while all around me, people say that what I am experiencing is not happening.

That's discouraging and spells no good for this engine... At least I'd like to HOPE for this engine to improve but with that attitude it's rather hard to.

Hi

It 'obvious that your reasoning is correct and also right, but the problem is that you are reporting it in the wrong forum .

Let's explain better.

It does not matter how right can have your arguments , you must not criticize the game ... never,at least not here!

Doing this only 'll trigger a chain of angry blind players, who will do anything, to discredit any fact that is not their .. that is to deny the obvious .

The answers can bounce between, depending on the circumstances, .... it's just a game .... or to the opposite ... this is a SIM....etx..etx !

For each observation done there is always the answer ready recycled several times.

And when it becomes clear that the problem exists,it's not a fault of the game ...but it's your Low end PC...of course!...Yes!... or the legendary bottleneck that we all dread.

Sometimes, I think,that they are paid by others to want the Castel of paper remains standing to make it appear solid and well made.

The forums where gamers talk about ArmA III, on the net, are full about to claim a better finished product with the feelings that you have listed in your post .... but it's a losing battle even before you start ... then forget it.

Track issue,opinons,advice...you can write what you want,they always go their own way ... because how always i repeat for fun:

Como on folks..after all...this is ArmA! ... Right?

It look like... take it or leave it!

Regards

Edited November 5, 2013 by Enrico

[dav 22]

The grass doesn't act as cover even when your lying prone in it, the enemy once he spots you will turn and fire within three seconds on elite or veteran and your dead. Now the op has a point in this regards, I have turned off grass completely in the game since it doesn't do anything but block your view of the enemy and allow the enemy to cheap shot you in the face!

Aside from this Arma 3 is in my opinion the coolest game ever made, I am 32, been playing since the atari 2600.

I disagree that the cover system is broken, I think its great around houses, rocks and trees etc. The game is epic on a stick!

[chrisb 196]

OP: While I would agree with much you say regards vanilla ai, I would say A3 has a problem for the realistic minded player, but appeals to the gamey type player, that’s not an issue, that is just how its turned out, for trolls and fan-boys to deny that is only natural.

Now, where I would say, you haven’t enjoyed this great series, is by not using ai mod/addons, this would have completely changed your mind where arma and arma2 were concerned. With arma3 its more difficult, the best ai mod/addon makers have gone, so its going to take time, or indeed money, to correct the ai, its woeful at present, even with the available ai mod/addons for arma3. That’s not to say they are bad mods, it’s the course the game has taken, its aimed more at being accessible toward, dare I say for the trolls & fan-boys to object to, ‘mainstream’, don’t care too much for trolls or fan-boys, they tend to be a waste of space.

My only advice to you is try returning to A2 and introducing ai mod/addons to your game, it’s a completely different game, very realistic and unbeatable, if that is what you crave ‘realism’. When I first came on here, only a year or so ago, really when the group I was playing in looked as though it would be finishing, it did, as a group we always played using a mixture of mod/addons, it made the game, as said, completely different, realistic and believable. This was scourned really by many on here, well the ones that will write here in this thread telling you, your opinion is wrong, its just the way it operates here, its a fan forum, but there are many groups, in-fact probably the majority of arma players, that don't bother on here much, they know what to expect.

But don’t be put off, there are many good players on here playing the game in a realistic way, giving good advice and pointing you towards things to try. That's not including myself I can't make a mod/addon no talent that way, I just mixed and tested (and boy, did I test) existing mod/addons made by very talented makers. Its just trying different formats to suit your game, it is possible to have the game like COD if that’s what you want (obviously you don’t want it like that), but it is also possible to have it as the best mil/sim game around, also everywhere in-between those two playing types, that's how versatile this series is.

The balance, I think you may want, is realistic ‘game’ play, that’s easily attainable with arma and arma2. But at the present time you’ll struggle to get that with arma3, in-fact imo you won’t get it in sp even using the editor. In pvp or mp where your playing against humans, the game will be different obviously, but really you need to join a group, don’t like the word clan, that way you can play the game with like minded players, chances are they will be using a mix of mods or their own made ai mod/addons, many groups use their own, that change the game enough to suit what your looking for. Using the right mix of ai mod/addons or just a good full conversion mod and you can make the game, sp & coop, very good indeed, humans against ai as a team, is a really great realistic game when you have it setup properly.

Its not arma or arma2 its just arma3 at the moment, just the direction of the game, its changed, making it harder to find that realistic element. May come to A3 later though, who knows..;)

[Enrico 1]

OP: While I would agree with much you say regards vanilla ai, I would say A3 has a problem for the realistic minded player, but appeals to the gamey type player, that’s not an issue, that is just how its turned out, for trolls and fan-boys to deny that is only natural.

Now, where I would say, you haven’t enjoyed this great series, is by not using ai mod/addons, this would have completely changed your mind where arma and arma2 were concerned. With arma3 its more difficult, the best ai mod/addon makers have gone, so its going to take time, or indeed money, to correct the ai, its woeful at present, even with the available ai mod/addons for arma3. That’s not to say they are bad mods, it’s the course the game has taken, its aimed more at being accessible toward, dare I say for the trolls & fan-boys to object to, ‘mainstream’, don’t care too much for trolls or fan-boys, they tend to be a waste of space.

My only advice to you is try returning to A2 and introducing ai mod/addons to your game, it’s a completely different game, very realistic and unbeatable, if that is what you crave ‘realism’. When I first came on here, only a year or so ago, really when the group I was playing in looked as though it would be finishing, it did, as a group we always played using a mixture of mod/addons, it made the game, as said, completely different, realistic and believable. This was scourned really by many on here, well the ones that will write here in this thread telling you, your opinion is wrong, its just the way it operates here, its a fan forum, but there are many groups, in-fact probably the majority of arma players, that don't bother on here much, they know what to expect.

But don’t be put off, there are many good players on here playing the game in a realistic way, giving good advice and pointing you towards things to try. That's not including myself I can't make a mod/addon no talent that way, I just mixed and tested (and boy, did I test) existing mod/addons made by very talented makers. Its just trying different formats to suit your game, it is possible to have the game like COD if that’s what you want (obviously you don’t want it like that), but it is also possible to have it as the best mil/sim game around, also everywhere in-between those two playing types, that's how versatile this series is.

The balance, I think you may want, is realistic ‘game’ play, that’s easily attainable with arma and arma2. But at the present time you’ll struggle to get that with arma3, in-fact imo you won’t get it in sp even using the editor. In pvp or mp where your playing against humans, the game will be different obviously, but really you need to join a group, don’t like the word clan, that way you can play the game with like minded players, chances are they will be using a mix of mods or their own made ai mod/addons, many groups use their own, that change the game enough to suit what your looking for. Using the right mix of ai mod/addons or just a good full conversion mod and you can make the game, sp & coop, very good indeed, humans against ai as a team, is a really great realistic game when you have it setup properly.

Its not arma or arma2 its just arma3 at the moment, just the direction of the game, its changed, making it harder to find that realistic element. May come to A3 later though, who knows..;)

Thx...Finally we can reason!

I have to give 100% right about what you said.

The problem, as you know, comes out with the compatibility in the servers when you enabled the mods.

Unfortunately, until they released the official version of ACE for ArmA III,the most popular and easy installation whit Six Updater,the mix mods are a delights just for the SP.

But yes...whit the mods it's another game..like always!

Edited November 5, 2013 by Enrico

[dmarkwick 261]

After so long in this 3d world and being at the third episode, you still see enemies taking entire clips without dying while killing you with single shots from 300+m, regardless of wounds, fatigue, breathing, stance, wind and, of course, your cover and their lack of zoomed optics.

For this quote to mean anything, it would have to be consistent. i.e. every time you shoot an enemy, it takes 3-4 shots to kill it, and every time it shoots you, it takes one single bullet. As this is clearly not the case (even when AI skill settings are high) then you're experiencing a normal spread of effects in firefights. Sometimes it DOES take 3-4 shots to kill an enemy, and, sometimes it DOES only take one shot to kill you. Choosing to focus only on these two outcomes among many others seems disingenuous.

[Smurf 12]

Here we go again, AGAIN!

[GShock 10]

I am concerned that with these people pushing forth their agenda of denial, the DEVs will never fix these issues.

This means the whole range of sub-choices that derive from the main problem, will stand.

We have gigantic issues with the rendering of the player's figure, the clipping of rifles (these, coupled together destroy the whole concept of cover in this game), the uber AI aiming and shooting (while their priority should be of seeking cover), the damage model completely ridiculous, CQB non-existent, Helos moving at near-vertical inclination and the DEVs are fixing the rear lights of vehicles... that's my problem.

[rundll.exe 12]

I am concerned that with these people pushing forth their agenda of denial, the DEVs will never fix these issues.

It's because the majority does not have a problem with cover, "rendering of the player's figure", AI accuracy, AI damage model etc. Unless you Indicate a clear bug with solid examples, there's not much for the developers to fix. Most of the issues you have are design choices, it's up to you to like them or not. If things were really as bad as you describe, it would have been fixed in the alpha already.

We have gigantic issues with the rendering of the player's figure, the clipping of rifles (these, coupled together destroy the whole concept of cover in this game), the uber AI aiming and shooting (while their priority should be of seeking cover), the damage model completely ridiculous, CQB non-existent, Helos moving at near-vertical inclination and the DEVs are fixing the rear lights of vehicles... that's my problem.

Please define "we" in your post...

Edited November 5, 2013 by rundll.exe

[Polygon 11]

1) put some effort into reporting an issue on A3 FT or, if one exists, send out a link of it to others possibly interested

2) refrain from ubiquitous / generalizing statements such as "flawed engine", etc.

3) profits...

honestly, I want BIS to release the goddamn modding tools! THIS WEEK! a nice present for November's beginning, don't you think?

[mistyronin 1181]

I am concerned that with these people pushing forth their agenda of denial, the DEVs will never fix these issues. [/Quote]

So, if people don't agree with you means denial? So, is your perception more important than the rest? For how you said it, it seems like the devs should only do what you think its right.

We have gigantic issues with the rendering of the player's figure, the clipping of rifles (these, coupled together destroy the whole concept of cover in this game), the uber AI aiming and shooting (while their priority should be of seeking cover), the damage model completely ridiculous, CQB non-existent, Helos moving at near-vertical inclination and the DEVs are fixing the rear lights of vehicles... that's my problem.

Although I agree with some of your points, the use of the majestic plural kills the whole argument.

Unless you can proof your words ( with empiric data, like poll results, signatures, etc ), you should stick to your own opinion.

[chrisb 196]

I am concerned that with these people pushing forth their agenda of denial, the DEVs will never fix these issues.

This means the whole range of sub-choices that derive from the main problem, will stand.

We have gigantic issues with the rendering of the player's figure, the clipping of rifles (these, coupled together destroy the whole concept of cover in this game), the uber AI aiming and shooting (while their priority should be of seeking cover), the damage model completely ridiculous, CQB non-existent, Helos moving at near-vertical inclination and the DEVs are fixing the rear lights of vehicles... that's my problem.

Yes, but its always been like that, there are some things you simply have to ‘turn a blind eye to’, if you know the saying.

The thing I choose to ignore probably more than anything, is clipping through things, its annoying but that’s that. This is with A2, I don’t bother much with A3, there are lots of issues with the game. What I am trying to say is those can be put up with if you find a good game i.e. modded, that suits what you need/want.

It’s the same with other games, some you feel, well this would be a great game if I could flank, instead of staying on this road, where a plank on two barrels becomes a wall you cannot pass, i.e. linear.

This game is the only one of its type, there are many problems with it, but what is the alternative to this game, you either put up with things you don’t like or stop playing it. There are more problems in A3 because of the direction change imo, a reluctance to make it too realistic/sim like, it would stop appealing to mainstream players.

For instance going for cover, its been available for years now (modded), whereby the ai will go for cover realistically (I have vid testing on my yt), I can’t remember not playing the game without using it. I agree with what you say regards, they should fix it for vanilla, in A3 the going for cover in vanilla is a joke, but they won’t, or probably more to the point, they can’t seem to fix it or want to, its sort of embedded bad practise, maybe because the staff that could remedy it, have moved on, who knows.

Many of the problems you see, have been around a long time, but some, mod/addons have helped correct many issues, the others will never be corrected properly imo, you just have to find what you can put up with and enjoy, or move on. I was trying to get over to you, its possible to have a superb game, if you use mod/addons to help achieve that. I used ai in particular for an example, only because I’m obsessed with having believable ai.

In A2 there are addons that allow for very realistic heli flight, medical assessment, ai behaviour, clipping issues, better penetration damage model, etc. There are lots of correction and ‘better play’ mod/addons out there, its just looking for them (arma/arma2).

I know it should not have to be the case, but it is, BI it seems are incapable of correcting many issues. But on the bright side look at what we have, what BI created, its pretty amazing, even with all its faults. That’s from someone who is not a fan-boy in any way. I love the game, but I only love the game the way I have it setup, I don't bother with the vanilla game at all..;)

[custard 10]

When Arma was released it put me off and I did not play it for one year I had to be coerced into it by friends, on release I loved ArmaII and played it for a long time. Although it runs ok on my PC and I think the map is awesome, Arma III I just do not want to play it. Our public server is empty so a lot of ppl feel the same. I don't regret the money I paid and I think BIS are the best game maker out there I just feel they have dropped the ball a bit and things have gone back to the bad old days of Arma (on release not by the time it had been fixed).

[fumanwho 10]

Poe's law. Dont feed troll's or idiots.

[maddogx 13]

I don't see anything productive coming from this thread. Simply venting your frustrations and accusing other users of being trolls or in denial is not useful to anyone.

:padlock: