AH-64D Apache Longbow for ArmA2 by Nodunit and Franze

[scfan42 0]

If we do a UH-60 we'll be sure and hit you up for info!

The few pictures I've seen of the AH-64's with external tanks have been the old 230 gallon types. With the IAFS, external tanks have fallen out of favor as having an extra 100 gallons internally seems to be adequate for most operations.

Your state is lucky; my state only has straight up ancient -60As with no possibility of upgrading any time soon. As most AH-64s are in the active Army as opposed to Guard and Reserve, I suspect that is why most are more standardized. If you look at a lot of Guard aircraft you'll see a lot of odd combinations too.

Yeah, did some searches and the only AH-64 with CEFS I can find is a Robbie Tanks brochure for their 125-gallon Reduced Size CEFS: http://www.robbietanks.com/images/advgallery/document/brochure_51_ah-64_rcefs.pdf

My state still has some ancient -60As from 79 and 80 (so old they don't have ESSS mounts), but I believe they're still modded up with CMWS, fiber-optic gyros, added vehicle health sensors, and for the inlet filters that you see in Iraq, or on the BIS ArmA2 UH-60s. Though I have heard that they're being sent to the boneyard within the next year or so, to be replaced with some beat up UH-60Ls. But there's always upgrades, like UH-60A+ "Frankenhawks" that were/are used in Afghanistan. Have the T701Cs and maybe the main transmission from a -60L put in, to keep up with the hot and high.

[nodunit 397]

I'm always looking to gather data on potential aircraft so if you have something you'd like to send, by all means please do :) It could assist in planning the mesh out and so on, the more info and samples the better.

Edited September 19, 2013 by NodUnit

[gatordev 215]

Yes, you're correct ataribaby and I stand corrected. Thanks for the correction.

Inded I confused Retreating blade stall with Vortex Ring. Anyway, Vortex Ring is also modeled in the EECH (at least in the modded version, althrough I'm pretty sure that the original EECH also modeled Vortex Ring).

Regardless, VRS was WAY over-modeled in EECH and even in the real world, is generally misunderstood. Modern, 4-bladed helos are much more forgiving of descent rates than what many pubs say about VRS. A huge reason for this is everything is based/tested off the UH-1/B206, and then applied to other aircraft, even though they're completely different.

I can tell you first hand that a > 700 FPM descent rate does NOT meant entry into VRS, contrary to what EECH and even the actual pubs day.

[franze 196]

Regardless, VRS was WAY over-modeled in EECH and even in the real world, is generally misunderstood. Modern, 4-bladed helos are much more forgiving of descent rates than what many pubs say about VRS. A huge reason for this is everything is based/tested off the UH-1/B206, and then applied to other aircraft, even though they're completely different.

I can tell you first hand that a > 700 FPM descent rate does NOT meant entry into VRS, contrary to what EECH and even the actual pubs day.

Aren't environmental conditions going to have a big impact on VRS as well? I'd expect higher altitudes and thinner air to make a VRS much more likely than thicker air.

[b00ce 160]

My state still has some ancient -60As from 79 and 80 (so old they don't have ESSS mounts), but I believe they're still modded up with CMWS, fiber-optic gyros, added vehicle health sensors, and for the inlet filters that you see in Iraq, or on the BIS ArmA2 UH-60s. Though I have heard that they're being sent to the boneyard within the next year or so, to be replaced with some beat up UH-60Ls. But there's always upgrades, like UH-60A+ "Frankenhawks" that were/are used in Afghanistan. Have the T701Cs and maybe the main transmission from a -60L put in, to keep up with the hot and high.

My unit (Active duty Dustoff) still has UH60A+ (They're a bit faster than the Limas), though they're going away VERY soon and being replaced by HH60Ms. My Alphas have the ESSS mounts, IVHMS and a lot of Lima mods though.

Not really looking forward to all of the computers and stuff on the Mike, but the ride is supposed to be butter smooth with all of the active vibration dampers.

If we do a UH-60 we'll be sure and hit you up for info!

Don't forget me. ;) I was attempting to make a UH60M, but my Paint.net is FUBARed and 3dsmax is harder for me than O2, but it sucks unwrapping stuff in O2. Plus my addon making attention span is REALLY small.

[max power 21]

Aren't environmental conditions going to have a big impact on VRS as well? I'd expect higher altitudes and thinner air to make a VRS much more likely than thicker air.

I would have thought it would be more likely to happen in denser air because of the greater friction on the pillar of thrust. I would think it would cause the air movement to curl up closer to the helicopter. I'm interested in hearing the facts!

[nodunit 397]

As I'm working on the texture, something occurs to me.. Our original plan is to release the source files for the primary texture so that people can create their own paint schemes without having to worry about repainting or losing some of the weathering and whatnot, essentially all layers are there, you just add color to a bottom layer and you're done.

Thing is, this also requires a pretty harsh subdueing of the materials, no unique specular maps for one, so before I decide wether or not I want to leave most of my stencils unreflective I'd like to get an idea of how many people might actually be making their own paint schemes, don't be afraid to speak, I won't bite. But If you don't then I'm just going to assume everyone is fine with stencils sake for the US ARMY being specular so that they will reflect regardless of paint scheme.

Edited September 20, 2013 by NodUnit

[b00ce 160]

Ive never seen the "United States Army" more reflective on my hawks.

[ricnunes 0]

I do believe that ACE doesn't have a custom FM for their AH-64 as they do not have access to the model for it, in which case they'd be limited to the stock BIS FM. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Regardless, ArmA2 isn't exactly the best when it comes to helicopter flight modeling, so expecting DCS fidelity or even EECH fidelity out of it is quite a stretch. As I stated before, the handling we have now is a result of compromises and getting into a spot that we felt was acceptable. I sincerely doubt everyone will be happy with it but for the most part it does what we want it to.

Personally I have no doubts that your flight model for this Apache addon is by far the best FM in existence within any aircraft ever made for ArmA! Yes, we shouldn't expect DCS fidelity or even EECH fidelity but nevertheless it's still EXCELENT inded, even more when considering the ArmA limitations.

And I'm glad that you're keeping this flight model as it is!

Regardless, VRS was WAY over-modeled in EECH and even in the real world, is generally misunderstood. Modern, 4-bladed helos are much more forgiving of descent rates than what many pubs say about VRS. A huge reason for this is everything is based/tested off the UH-1/B206, and then applied to other aircraft, even though they're completely different.

I can tell you first hand that a > 700 FPM descent rate does NOT meant entry into VRS, contrary to what EECH and even the actual pubs day.

Yes, I agree with you on this one - The EECH Vortex Ring effect seems to be at least a bit exaggerated.

Edited September 23, 2013 by ricnunes

[nodunit 397]

Ive never seen the "United States Army" more reflective on my hawks.

http://www.combatindex.com/hardware/images/air/uh60/LG/uh-60_132.jpg most all of the highly reflective parts are where the black paint is.

http://poadu.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/img_0206b.jpg can be seen here on the black paint line above the foothole as well.

I was going to make this a yes or no in light of all the trouble having the US flag patch on the rvmat caused for people in A3, but then I remembered my Nod skin so I'll keep US ARMY off the specular for now.

[kimi_uy 134]

This was something I didn't fully implement and document with v1.2; if you release the trigger without following through with a burst limit, there's a probability the gun will jam. This becomes greater as you exceed 100 rounds and start overheating the gun.

I can't seem to get the hang of it, sometimes the gun jams after 3 shots. Is it a mathematical probability and just happens or there's some kind of thingy measuring the gun's temperature?

[nodunit 397]

I do believe there is a small chance of a random jam. Funny thing, when we were testing this feature, on the second or third go round, my gun immediately jammed on the first shot.

[franze 196]

Jamming should only start to occur when you exceed more than 100 rounds without hitting a burst limit.

[islesfan186 83]

got my new computer up and running. i forgot how much fun playing around with this bad boy is. I like the new sounds too for APU/Engine Start-up

btw nod and franze - sorry for being MIA most of the summer. shoot me a PM with your skype names if you want a tester for the B2+/64E versions, or the A3 version (if you plan on doing any of that that is)

[b00ce 160]

http://www.combatindex.com/hardware/images/air/uh60/LG/uh-60_132.jpg most all of the highly reflective parts are where the black paint is.

http://poadu.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/img_0206b.jpg can be seen here on the black paint line above the foothole as well.

I was going to make this a yes or no in light of all the trouble having the US flag patch on the rvmat caused for people in A3, but then I remembered my Nod skin so I'll keep US ARMY off the specular for now.

Well there you go. Just because I haven't seen/noticed it, doesn't mean it isn't there. :)

[scfan42 0]

Don't forget me. ;) I was attempting to make a UH60M, but my Paint.net is FUBARed and 3dsmax is harder for me than O2, but it sucks unwrapping stuff in O2. Plus my addon making attention span is REALLY small.

Awesome! The more experience, the better! All my experience so far is with ARNG birds and one deployment to Kosovo. Haven't even seen a Mike outside of visiting their hanger at Useless for 5 minutes.

Even if Franze/Nod don't do their own UH-60, I'd love to see their experience and some of their back-end scripting shared across towards one. You guys thought about making some of common framework for aircraft addons? It'd be awesome if we could get every helicopter addon to have this much fidelity, especially if the TKOH FM starts getting used in ArmA3.

[franze 196]

I've kicked around the idea of a common architecture but I don't think most people would be able to make heads or tails of it; one of the major issues is that it requires integration of config, scripting, modeling, and texturing to get the desired result. In addition, most of the back end scripting is very messy and difficult to understand. It would require an extreme overhaul to make it easy enough to use.

[max power 21]

Well there you go. Just because I haven't seen/noticed it, doesn't mean it isn't there. :)

Specular inversion isn't just realistic, but it looks awesome too!

[gatordev 215]

Aren't environmental conditions going to have a big impact on VRS as well? I'd expect higher altitudes and thinner air to make a VRS much more likely than thicker air.

I would have thought it would be more likely to happen in denser air because of the greater friction on the pillar of thrust. I would think it would cause the air movement to curl up closer to the helicopter. I'm interested in hearing the facts!

Hmm...I'm not sure. Now I'm going to need to go look this up. I agree, it would seem like DA would affect it one way or another, but I don't know which way. Time to go find an aero pub in my book shelf...

Not really looking forward to all of the computers and stuff on the Mike, but the ride is supposed to be butter smooth with all of the active vibration dampers.

From what I've been told my other Mike drivers, your computer systems are pretty nice and actually make sense. Sikorsky did a decent job with the software and it's fairly straightforward. The Lockheed software we have is complete crap, designed by someone who apparently had no idea about user interfaces, and still doesn't have a legal way to navigate the airways. I'm envious of the system you will be getting.

As for the ride, yes, the AVCS is impressive, but is just for 4-pers. What is also nice is the integrated IMDS monitoring system so you don't have to string wires everywhere when you need to run vibes. The camera system for the tip-path plane is much nicer too, and mounted to the airframe so you don't have to hold it in your hands.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:00 ----------

Okay, you got me curious, so I went through a couple of pubs I have. The best one I could come up with was the Naval Aviation Safety School Rotary Aerodynamics book. As with other references, it says that VRS can be affected by DA, but doesn't say how. Presumably, it gets worse with a higher DA, since it's going to affect your Induced Flow. I'm guessing no one really quantifies it because it's a small adjustment. Say a helo has a VRS of 800 FPM at sea level, then it might have 850 FPM at a higher DA (just swagging numbers).

I think at the end of the day, flying in higher DA environments has so many other concerns and VRS is a pretty low priority if you fly a controlled profile.

[franze 196]

On the same venue you say that most simulations use the xH-1 series VRS rather than what most helicopters are capable of; is the xH-1 series just more understood with ready data or is the exaggeration simply used as a form of fake difficulty?

[franze 196]

Updated to v1.3:

Download

Changes:

v1.3 -

- Modified shadow LOD.

- Modified pilot LOD.

- Modified missile guidance.

- Modified missions to account for new damage scripting.

- Modified campaign missions "Pin Drop" and "Hallowed Ground" to include radio

commands for ordering Dusk Knight to stop, continue, or fly to an area. Dusk

Knight will also wait until the player takes off to continue his way route.

- Modified pilot and gunner LODs to have weapons and rotor components.

- Fixed crew placement in crew fire LOD placement that resulted in their being

unhittable except in certain places. Still requires a weapon capable of

penetrating armor to prevent 'makarov' crew kills.

- Fixed vulnerability in underside of cockpit area.

- Opening doors will now allow crew to be shot.

- Fixed pilot able to use SAL missiles without a gunner.

[Corsair 10]

Hello folks,

First of all thanks to the devs for this wonderful mod.

However I struggle to fire SAL1/2 Hellfires.

Here is the procedure I use:

1. go to WPN page, select SAL1/2 MSL

2. check that TADS is the ACQ sensor

From now on there is something I don't get: how to activate the laser? Is it activated by default? If yes, how to know it is lasing? How to tell the Hellfire to aim at the laser, in the TADS (what key)?

It also seems that I can't fire SAL Hellfire if there is no 'solid target' (read: enemy vehicles, etc..). I can't fire at infantry nor in the open.

Can someone enlighten me about the SAL Hellfire procedure?

Thanks.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Corsair

[franze 196]

It assumes the laser is on by default when a target is acquired with tab lock. If the missile box is solid and no inhibit messages are displayed, you have a good lock. As an alternative you can activate the laser on the WPN page with the LRFD FIRST button or the "BROADCAST REMOTE CODE" action. The laser is slaved to the cannon but it can then be acquired in the same way that other active targets are. Note that AUTO tracking does not work when used in conjunction with the laser.

[Guest]

Thanks a lot for informing us about the updated release :cool:

New version frontpaged on the Armaholic homepage.

AH-64D Apache Longbow v1.3



Arma 2

==============================

We have also "connected" these pages to your account (NodUnit) on Armaholic.

This means in the future you will be able to maintain these pages yourself if you wish to do so. Once this new feature is ready we will contact you about it and explain how things work and what options you have.

When you have any questions already feel free to PM or email me!

** Note: since this is a project on which more people are working we will contact you in the future to discuss how you want this to be setup on Armaholic.

[Corsair 10]

Thanks for your answer,

It assumes the laser is on by default when a target is acquired with tab lock.

So it means that I cannot fire a missile when there is no target? How do I do to destroy a building, per example? I tried, and I can't manage to get a solid box (whereas it works fine against vehicles).