A Large Fixed Wing transport aircraft for Arma 3

[merlin 17]

A large fix winged transport aircraft would be very unsuitable for ArmA 3, except perhaps as a static object to be destroyed as a mission objective. Smaller transport aircraft such as the AN-2 (provided it's still flying in the A3 timeline) would be greatly suited to the Altis terrain, perhaps being used by rebels to smuggle men, equipment or even narcotics into the island undetected. A seaplane would also be very resourceful. If i had to suggest such an aircraft it would be the C-23 Sherpa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_C-23_Sherpa

It would be ideal for supply drops of fuel/equipment to remote installations without the hassle of being too large and cumbersome. I love large transport aircraft; the C-17 in particular, but they really don't fit the theme of ArmA 3.

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

A400m will be replacing C130 in most European NATO Airforces. The 1st production aircraft was delivered to the French Airforce on the 1st August. The above video shows 5 flying in formation. Edited August 19, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[progamer 14]

A large fix winged transport aircraft would be very unsuitable for ArmA 3, except perhaps as a static object to be destroyed as a mission objective. Smaller transport aircraft such as the AN-2 (provided it's still flying in the A3 timeline) would be greatly suited to the Altis terrain, perhaps being used by rebels to smuggle men, equipment or even narcotics into the island undetected. A seaplane would also be very resourceful. If i had to suggest such an aircraft it would be the C-23 Sherpa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_C-23_Sherpa

It would be ideal for supply drops of fuel/equipment to remote installations without the hassle of being too large and cumbersome. I love large transport aircraft; the C-17 in particular, but they really don't fit the theme of ArmA 3.

In the storyline NATO and CSAT have tons of resources, a large fixed wing Aircraft makes sense because how else would you move around the vehicles and bring new ones to the island. We don't need static objects or planes on rails that cod and bf3 have. I don't know what theme you think Arma 3 has but I would say a large fixed wing aircraft would fit right in. I suggested the C-17 because it can back up on its own, carry the ingame Merkava tanks and most importantly is a short take off and landing vehicle (STOL).

This thread is for large cargo transport vehicles, you seem like you want a medium sized aircraft like Arma 2 had like the AN-92 or whatever it was called. But large transport aircraft are definitely something I would expect in Arma 3.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ProGamer

[merlin 17]

how else would you move around the vehicles and bring new ones to the island.

RORO ships and landing crafts are far more capable and cost effective for bringing in heavy equipment, furthermore a C-17 would have at most a two minute flight to anywhere on Altis, it's an absolute mockery to use such an asset for a task as trivial as that. As for bringing equipment to the island i agree it has a role in the story but no application in gameplay as the island exists in a vacuum. From a development standpoint small to medium sized aircraft like the AN-2 and the C-23 would have a greater payoff as they are designed for short ferry flights, infiltration, and small supply drops (like those weapon pallets that function as ammoboxes in game now). Those three functions fit very well into what i imagine the ArmA 3 story is, as ferry flights would be used to move resistance members around the island or to insert them into a hostile part of the island, there are great mission possibilities such as "assassinate general Guba before he takes his charter flight on a Cessna out of the island!" and so forth.

[progamer 14]

RORO ships and landing crafts are far more capable and cost effective for bringing in heavy equipment, furthermore a C-17 would have at most a two minute flight to anywhere on Altis, it's an absolute mockery to use such an asset for a task as trivial as that. As for bringing equipment to the island i agree it has a role in the story but no application in gameplay as the island exists in a vacuum. From a development standpoint small to medium sized aircraft like the AN-2 and the C-23 would have a greater payoff as they are designed for short ferry flights, infiltration, and small supply drops (like those weapon pallets that function as ammoboxes in game now). Those three functions fit very well into what i imagine the ArmA 3 story is, as ferry flights would be used to move resistance members around the island or to insert them into a hostile part of the island, there are great mission possibilities such as "assassinate general Guba before he takes his charter flight on a Cessna out of the island!" and so forth.

It would take more time to fly over Altis than the jet in the release would...see how long the C-130 took to fly across Chernarus, Altis is much bigger than Chernarus. The campaign story has changed many times as well...

And medium sized cargo/transport planes are a different discussion than this thread. This thread is for large cargo and transport fixed wing aircraft. Arma 2 had both large and medium aircraft and now Arma 3 is insanely lacking in fixed wing-aircraft at the moment.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ProGamer

[yasotay 197]

and a C-17 carry ~50 tons of tank (not sure how much a Merkava weighs) is most certainly not an STOL aircraft. Having worked planning for the beast even with a 33 ton vehicle it does not meet the criterion for STOL performance. Unless of course you are not planning to use the aircraft again.

[pharoah 65]

Unless of course you are not planning to use the aircraft again.

Virtual ammo box? ;)

[Mattar_Tharkari 10]

The A400M can't carry a tank, but could carry everytihing else including all the wheeled APC's and tracked vehicles up to 37 tons. It is also a refueling aircraft for both jets and helicopters as it can fly at both low and high speed and also land on rough ground which makes it more versatile for missions than the C-17?

http://www.airbusmilitary.com/Aircraft/A400M/A400MAbout.aspx

Edited August 22, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari

[pharoah 65]

if we're looking at moving MBTs over large distances, you'd definitely need a squadron of C17s, a fleet of semi trailers or a couple of landing craft. But thats for wholescale movements. Altis is big but not that big I wouldn't think, not to require that amount of logistics.

[ajsarge 10]

TL;DR - C-17 is too big, C-27J, Quad Tilt-Rotor, and KC-390 FTW

Some of the things I'm reading here I think are awesome, and somethings just make me *facepalm* hard enough to put a hole in my skull.

Before I start on the comments, I'll lay out my qualifications. Beware: Wall of text ahead.

I'm a C-17 Loadmaster in the USAF. I load the cargo, fly with the cargo, and get it off the jet at its destination.

With that out of the way, I'll say that the C-17, while awesome, is overkill when you're working with something the size of Altis. Maybe if Altis and Stratis were on the same map, with the real-life distance between Stratis and Limnos, it would be feasible in-game to have a transport aircraft as large as the C-17. The shortest flight where I actually carried cargo was still 30 minutes long. Altis isn't even the Size of Oahu, and 30 minutes gets you all the way to the Big Island of Hawaii at C-17 speeds. Nowhere near the proximity of Stratis to Limnos.

Then you have some the the cool features mentioned, like the reverse thrust used to slow the aircraft on landing that exists on most modern airlines, and the short-field capability that's easily beat by aircraft that would be better suited for Altis. Reverse thrust can be used to back an airliner just as well, but they don't do it because they can't post a spotter with a direct voice line to the pilots, and they don't want to waste the fuel while making tons of noise right outside the terminal. That equates to a whole lot of "Meh" when you actually think about where it might do more than be cool once or twice in Arma 3. How often have you used the V-22's "Cool" mechanic to actually carry troops in Arma 2?

The A-400M can be considered somewhere between a C-17 and C-130J. Used for separate factions, the A-400 and C-17 could be a good match for cargo planes on different sides. But, it still falls in that "Too-big" category for me. The Y-20 made by china is a cheap knockoff of a C-17 and is only worth bashing in my eyes.

Once you get into the C-27 though, I think we're at the right area. It's even being used by the Greeks right now! (According to Wikipedia...) With a few future "updates", I think it could be made to work as a 20-something-year-old airframe sitting pretty in its prime as a light, tactical, cargo airplane. Let's even make it fun and design an AC-27 with a 20mm on the side and some of the guided missiles mounted on the wings like the USMC C-130Js with the hellfires they have now.

I like the QTR idea for NATO. It's futuristic enough with a fancy mechanic that I think would be right at home as a comparison to the C-27. The tilt-rotor comes into play as an option for carrying larger quantities of troops to an LZ like the Orca in contrast to the Greyhawk's single squad. Unfortunately, I don't see it being used very often, similar to the V-22 I mentioned earlier.

Lastly, the KC-390 would be a good OPFOR plane in my eyes. Probably the biggest of the options presented, the size and style fits well with what the CSAT forces have already. I don't have any comments on this plane, as this is the first I've heard of it even existing.

Sorry for the wall of text and disjointed rambling. I think I've gotten everything I want to say out there.

Late Reply Addition -

if we're looking at moving MBTs over large distances, you'd definitely need a squadron of C17s, a fleet of semi trailers or a couple of landing craft. But thats for wholescale movements. Altis is big but not that big I wouldn't think, not to require that amount of logistics.

Carrying an MBT with a C-17 is probably the most expensive way to move a tank somewhere. Has it been done? Yes, and I've got pictures of co-workers putting them on airplanes and posing with the 120mm between their legs to prove it. Multiply that by however many tanks in a platoon/brigade, and it's just not worth it compared to shipping via flatbed or boat. I agree with Altis not being big enough to warrant that type of movement for armored vehicles when they can just drive themselves on a single tank of fuel.

[pharoah 65]

when they can just drive themselves on a single tank of fuel.

Not if they're based on M1A1s ;)

Agree with everything you said....but it does highlight what everyone thinks ie. the need for something bigger than the stuff we're getting on release.

[cpl_hicks 2]

One thing I thought would be cool is to have a medium size amphibious plane in arma and presto you have plenty of runway all around the island and a way to insert inf and small assets.

[progamer 14]

TL;DR - C-17 is too big, C-27J, Quad Tilt-Rotor, and KC-390 FTW

Some of the things I'm reading here I think are awesome, and somethings just make me *facepalm* hard enough to put a hole in my skull.

Before I start on the comments, I'll lay out my qualifications. Beware: Wall of text ahead.

I'm a C-17 Loadmaster in the USAF. I load the cargo, fly with the cargo, and get it off the jet at its destination.

With that out of the way, I'll say that the C-17, while awesome, is overkill when you're working with something the size of Altis. Maybe if Altis and Stratis were on the same map, with the real-life distance between Stratis and Limnos, it would be feasible in-game to have a transport aircraft as large as the C-17. The shortest flight where I actually carried cargo was still 30 minutes long. Altis isn't even the Size of Oahu, and 30 minutes gets you all the way to the Big Island of Hawaii at C-17 speeds. Nowhere near the proximity of Stratis to Limnos.

Then you have some the the cool features mentioned, like the reverse thrust used to slow the aircraft on landing that exists on most modern airlines, and the short-field capability that's easily beat by aircraft that would be better suited for Altis. Reverse thrust can be used to back an airliner just as well, but they don't do it because they can't post a spotter with a direct voice line to the pilots, and they don't want to waste the fuel while making tons of noise right outside the terminal. That equates to a whole lot of "Meh" when you actually think about where it might do more than be cool once or twice in Arma 3. How often have you used the V-22's "Cool" mechanic to actually carry troops in Arma 2?

The A-400M can be considered somewhere between a C-17 and C-130J. Used for separate factions, the A-400 and C-17 could be a good match for cargo planes on different sides. But, it still falls in that "Too-big" category for me. The Y-20 made by china is a cheap knockoff of a C-17 and is only worth bashing in my eyes.

Once you get into the C-27 though, I think we're at the right area. It's even being used by the Greeks right now! (According to Wikipedia...) With a few future "updates", I think it could be made to work as a 20-something-year-old airframe sitting pretty in its prime as a light, tactical, cargo airplane. Let's even make it fun and design an AC-27 with a 20mm on the side and some of the guided missiles mounted on the wings like the USMC C-130Js with the hellfires they have now.

I like the QTR idea for NATO. It's futuristic enough with a fancy mechanic that I think would be right at home as a comparison to the C-27. The tilt-rotor comes into play as an option for carrying larger quantities of troops to an LZ like the Orca in contrast to the Greyhawk's single squad. Unfortunately, I don't see it being used very often, similar to the V-22 I mentioned earlier.

Lastly, the KC-390 would be a good OPFOR plane in my eyes. Probably the biggest of the options presented, the size and style fits well with what the CSAT forces have already. I don't have any comments on this plane, as this is the first I've heard of it even existing.

Sorry for the wall of text and disjointed rambling. I think I've gotten everything I want to say out there.

Late Reply Addition -

Carrying an MBT with a C-17 is probably the most expensive way to move a tank somewhere. Has it been done? Yes, and I've got pictures of co-workers putting them on airplanes and posing with the 120mm between their legs to prove it. Multiply that by however many tanks in a platoon/brigade, and it's just not worth it compared to shipping via flatbed or boat. I agree with Altis not being big enough to warrant that type of movement for armored vehicles when they can just drive themselves on a single tank of fuel.

The A-400 looks nice. It's a STOL but I don't think it can backup on its own.

[mistyronin 1181]

In my opinion, the thing should be a future version of the C-130 ( maybe a bit more stylized ). It allows to take light and medium vehicles that are the ones that are first carried to the area of operations. The heavy stuff tends to be send by ship.

With the C130, you could also have an AC-130 Specter version, to help the troops on the ground... you know, combined arms. Would really improve the gameplay.

The little tactical cargo stuff like the An-2 is already done by the v22 Osprey, which also replaces the chinnoks.

BTW talking about ships, a LHD would be awesome in the game, with some light naval artillery support; that with some landing craft and / or landing hovercraft like this one carrying Hummves.

They would improve a lot the gameplay and add more uses for the divers, like plant mines, attack the ship, with the tiny submarine shoot a torpedo like mini japaneses or germans in WWII...

[progamer 14]

In my opinion, the thing should be a future version of the C-130 ( maybe a bit more stylized ). It allows to take light and medium vehicles that are the ones that are first carried to the area of operations. The heavy stuff tends to be send by ship.

With the C130, you could also have an AC-130 Specter version, to help the troops on the ground... you know, combined arms. Would really improve the gameplay.

The little tactical cargo stuff like the An-2 is already done by the v22 Osprey, which also replaces the chinnoks.

BTW talking about ships, a LHD would be awesome in the game, with some light naval artillery support; that with some landing craft and / or landing hovercraft like this one carrying Hummves.

They would improve a lot the gameplay and add more uses for the divers, like plant mines, attack the ship, with the tiny submarine shoot a torpedo like mini japaneses or germans in WWII...

The developers like to base the vehicles off of real world vehicles. Why use a AC-130 specter when it would likely have all variants retired by the time Arma 3 is in.

[pharoah 65]

The developers like to base the vehicles off of real world vehicles. Why use a AC-130 specter when it would likely have all variants retired by the time Arma 3 is in.

What makes you think they'll have retired the AC-130 in 20 years? The C130 has already lasted 60 years...whats another 20? Remember, the AC-130 provides a stable platform to deliver a crapload of weaponry accurately and on-call, including one 105mm artillery piece. What will they replace it with? You'd need a handful of drones/UAVs to deliver the kind of ordance that thing can deliver.

Besides, I get the feeling that because its so far into the future, we're losing alot of what we have now purely because of speculation that 'something better might replace it'. I mean, its 2035 or so that they're modelling which is only 20 years away - the rifle is still the rifle, the UAV is still the UAV, the SP artillery is still the SP artillery. You tell me the Ghosthawk ingame now is much better than the current Blackhawk? No its not...besides being painted a silly black and looking rounded...ITS STILL THE SAME AIRCRAFT. Same as the MBT, etc. (note: caps used to prove point only :) ).

I can understand the focus on 2035 re creative licence however they've not been creative with it. Everything they've modelled is today's technology dressed up to look futuristic.

[progamer 14]

Ghosthawk is a real life variation of the blackhawk. But I would expect they may have other aircraft for the same role as the AC-130 specter but this is off topic as we are looking for large fixed-wing STOL transport aircraft for Arma 3.

[pharoah 65]

lol not exactly...its still on topic. You've ruled out the C130 (and AC130) because its 'old' technology which shouldn't be around in 2035 (the time period covered by ARMA 3)...what I'm saying is, no don't discount it because the C130 has lasted 60 years already and is still in use in major air forces throughout the world today. 2035 is only 20 years away and I don't see how they can just do away with the C130 without finding a suitable alternative (eg. the A400M).

The ultimate question is though...what sized transport a/c would be suitable for Altis? I think this was covered a bit a few posts ago by AJsarge...we do need a larger transport a/c but perhaps not as large as the C130 or C17 or even the A400M...maybe smaller...but what??? The first thing that came to my mind which would have been perfect (but old) is the Caribou. STOL with good cargo carrying capacity which can land on dime on the side of a mountain. What other alternatives?

[BadHabitz 235]

I'd go with C-17. The C-130s have been around for almost 60 years, so I see no reason the Globemaster III won't be around in a near-future setting.

[RexAgentrds 10]

That would be nice.

[progamer 14]

lol not exactly...its still on topic. You've ruled out the C130 (and AC130) because its 'old' technology which shouldn't be around in 2035 (the time period covered by ARMA 3)...what I'm saying is, no don't discount it because the C130 has lasted 60 years already and is still in use in major air forces throughout the world today. 2035 is only 20 years away and I don't see how they can just do away with the C130 without finding a suitable alternative (eg. the A400M).

The ultimate question is though...what sized transport a/c would be suitable for Altis? I think this was covered a bit a few posts ago by AJsarge...we do need a larger transport a/c but perhaps not as large as the C130 or C17 or even the A400M...maybe smaller...but what??? The first thing that came to my mind which would have been perfect (but old) is the Caribou. STOL with good cargo carrying capacity which can land on dime on the side of a mountain. What other alternatives?

The Caribou Was replaced by the C-130, it is very unlikely to be used by NATO or CSAT but instead a small Militery group like AAF only without the technological level they have. The aircraft itself would seem very out of place unless a guerillia faction had it.

[pharoah 65]

yeah but the Caribou fulfilled a different role to the C130. The C130 was more troop/cargo transport over large distances whereas the Caribou was more troop/cargo transport and tactical insertion over short/medium distances. Altis is big but it ain't that big - just saying that the Caribou or something similar would be better suited.

just for the record, we're all arguing for the same thing - I actually WANT the C-17 - size be damned! lol. I just think that if the Devs don't want to provide us with one...maybe they might be encouraged to provide something a bit smaller (hence my Caribou argument). If I was a dev, bloody hell I'd be creating/importing a C17 AND a Caribou (2035 variant! lol).

[progamer 14]

yeah but the Caribou fulfilled a different role to the C130. The C130 was more troop/cargo transport over large distances whereas the Caribou was more troop/cargo transport and tactical insertion over short/medium distances. Altis is big but it ain't that big - just saying that the Caribou or something similar would be better suited.

just for the record, we're all arguing for the same thing - I actually WANT the C-17 - size be damned! lol. I just think that if the Devs don't want to provide us with one...maybe they might be encouraged to provide something a bit smaller (hence my Caribou argument). If I was a dev, bloody hell I'd be creating/importing a C17 AND a Caribou (2035 variant! lol).

Isn't the a-400m smaller than the c-17?

[pharoah 65]

yeah I think so but not sure by how much. The question is though...say we got our wish and they included an A400M...what could we do with it? possibly drop paratroopers, maybe drop cargo with parachutes? I don't think you could use it for much else because there appears to only be one major airport on the island. Still though....this would be perfect for an AC130 or something similar to provide CAS.

[mistyronin 1181]

.this would be perfect for an AC130 or something similar to provide CAS.

Yeah, or for instance an A400M modified with guns for land support. Though if we have the Ah-6 LittleBird, I don't understand why we couldn't have the AC-130 and C-130 ( that btw its also used for a lot of countries ). I can't imagine better air support.

It would also be awesome in multiplayer, while the pilot flies two people could play as gunners