TPW EBS: engine based suppression

[gliptal 25]

Hi folks, I'm running this mod with Windwalking's WW_AICover, can these mods share the same userconfig folder that's in my Arma3 root. Cheers.

Yes, but each file must be in the relative userconfig Mod subfolder.

Yay!

[EO 11277]

Yes, but each file must be in the relative userconfig Mod subfolder.

Yay!

Yep, sounds about right, thanks Gliptal:pc:

[wormeaten 0]

@wormeaten. You won't see a coloured shell around the player unit regardless of debugging, since it runs in its own separate loop independent of AI. To be honest, the player suppression effects are very subtle, just a bit of shortness of breath really. There are no forced stance changes or anything like that.

For players should be different than for AI and what is the point of having suppressing fire effect only on AI? It is hacking tool that way. If you are allow to suppressing AI they should be able to suppress you back same way.

Suppressing fire is one of most realistic feature in game. In real life it is essential team work strategy. Problem is how to transfer it to game engine which is very limited according to real life physics.

Other problem is psychical nature. In real life there is no re spawn or restart mission. Once you get killed it is over forever, total blackout. So every training in essence is based to survive and stay alive.

example for it is this video shoving how humans try to stay in cover even if it is smallest cover possible turning in to the turtle.

In game people don't react like in real life because they know it is not real threat so they will do exactly opposite than in real life situation risking and try to spot enemy to shoot back even they are aware could be killed what is shown on this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAC9ByVHo2Y

So in game we need something what will force human players to react same way like in real life and force them in to the cover or hit the ground. And it is not need to be some realistic feature because this is game and sometimes not that realistic features could increase over all realistic experience in game.

This could be achieved with some effects like for example:

• reducing visibility with blur or similar effect. This simulating focusing vision to be able easy find target.
  
• increase fatigue effect to reducing combat efficiency what will cause effort to eliminate threat before he eliminate you pointless.
  

Those are two major points which will force human players to find cover to eliminate or reducing suppressing fire effect. With some other effects and tweaking we could get that human players will react same way like in real life and this should be in SP as well as in MP gameplay no matter against AI or other human opponents.

Point is if you are able to suppressing you should be able to be suppressed as well. This is working in both ways.

You mention that you were playing against your mate, which I've interpreted as MP or PVP. EBS is strictly a single player mod since the suppression shell apparently only reacts to local bullets (a bug in the hitpart eventhandler).

Yes basically we just shoot on itch other aimed to miss. Shoot triggers are working properly changing colors and size only there was no effects on us at all.

Edited September 5, 2013 by wormeaten

[tpw 2315]

Yes basically we just shoot on itch other aimed to miss. Shoot triggers are working properly changing colors and size only there was no effects on us at all.

Sorry, not dismiss your other points, but this observation is very important because it means there might be MP functionality that I thought was absent. If you could elaborate

1 - Were you and your friend both MP clients, or was one the server?

2 - Were you both running EBS or only one of you?

3 - Did either of you have an AI and were they affected?

If I can establish that this is working in MP I can work on a proper framework for that, including perhaps configurable levels of player suppression.

[wormeaten 0]

Sorry, not dismiss your other points, but this observation is very important because it means there might be MP functionality that I thought was absent. If you could elaborate

1 - Were you and your friend both MP clients, or was one the server?

2 - Were you both running EBS or only one of you?

3 - Did either of you have an AI and were they affected?

If I can establish that this is working in MP I can work on a proper framework for that, including perhaps configurable levels of player suppression.

1: Friend start server true the game I was join on him. Only two of us. I see triggers working when I was shooting on him on his model I was not able to see my hit box to be honest didn't try it at all.

2. Both was running EBS.

3. We try separately with AI and I think this part working. Didn't play much with AI to be able to say difference between vanilla AI reaction and with EBS.

[ollem 4]

It's a real pity but current TPWEBS will not work properly in MP game. Period.

In case of MP game each unit (both player and AI) are created on a single system in the MP game. In other words is local to ne system only.

The Player is (quite obvious) always created locally on the players PC.

The AI can either be local on a dedicated server or on one of the players PC.

In case of no dedicated server but locally hosted server the AI is usually local on the system of the player who is host.

Currently TPWEBS will only work properly in MP game for AI which is local on the system of the player who is host, and only if shots are fired by this player.

The concept of TPWEBS is based on a detection system which can only detect bullets hit on local system - BIS limitation.

I've been looking at a way to share the hit info to other systems: there is a way but this *could* lead to significant network traffic overhead.

[tpw 2315]

@Ollem, thanks so much for stating the limitations so succinctly, and for doing the research. There might be a way around the fundamental limitation by creating a shell that enables use of hit instead of hitpart. Bad Benson is looking into this.

[ebarstad 18]

Hi tpw - I think you mentioned previously that their may be some conflicts with TPW Fall where, in certain situations, a unit will remain prone even after they're no longer being suppressed. I think I saw this yesterday with a civilian that got caught in the crossfire -- he got hit once and remained prone for the rest of the mission, crawling back and forth between his two waypoints. Would it be possible to add some kind of check (time-based?) to TPW EBS to reset a unit's stance to auto? Maybe that would be too much overhead, I don't know.

[tpw 2315]

Hi tpw - I think you mentioned previously that their may be some conflicts with TPW Fall where, in certain situations, a unit will remain prone even after they're no longer being suppressed. I think I saw this yesterday with a civilian that got caught in the crossfire -- he got hit once and remained prone for the rest of the mission, crawling back and forth between his two waypoints. Would it be possible to add some kind of check (time-based?) to TPW EBS to reset a unit's stance to auto? Maybe that would be too much overhead, I don't know.

I've been thinking about this too. A 30 second loop that checks a unit's fall status, suppression status and bleeding/health status and resets stance if these are all zero. Overhead will be minimal. Thanks ebarstad!

[ebarstad 18]

I tossed a grenade at an enemy in a mission I'm making and got the following error:

Bad conversion: array
Error in expression <linfo select 6) select 2; 
_explosive = nearestObject [_unit, _ammo]; 
_expdist >
 Error position: <nearestObject [_unit, _ammo]; 
_expdist >
 Error Type Object, expected Number
File TPW_EBS\tpw_ebs.sqf, line 198

[tpw 2315]

I tossed a grenade at an enemy in a mission I'm making and got the following error:

Bad conversion: array
Error in expression <linfo select 6) select 2; 
_explosive = nearestObject [_unit, _ammo]; 
_expdist >
 Error position: <nearestObject [_unit, _ammo]; 
_expdist >
 Error Type Object, expected Number
File TPW_EBS\tpw_ebs.sqf, line 198

Thanks mate, I will look into it now

EDIT: I've tried and tried and been unable to replicate it thus far, but will keep at it.

Edited September 11, 2013 by tpw

[r.flagg 11]

I saw that recently too, when I was testing CIVS (grenade / tank / etc kills). But I noticed I was still on EBS 107, so I didn't say anything just yet. Was gonna wait till I had time to get 108 and retry.

I was on DEV build, think it was the one right before 909 ( hmmm... as opposed to

I guess ;p ) , in SP editor, on Alitis. Will try again when I get back to desktop machine.

[ebarstad 18]

Thanks mate, I will look into it now

EDIT: I've tried and tried and been unable to replicate it thus far, but will keep at it.

There may have been a civilian there, too; I'm using your civilians mod and the enemy was behind a wall so I couldn't really see him. Now that I think of it, that's some pretty reckless behavior on my part. :)

[tpw 2315]

There may have been a civilian there, too; I'm using your civilians mod and the enemy was behind a wall so I couldn't really see him. Now that I think of it, that's some pretty reckless behavior on my part. :)

Maybe I'll write TPW COURTMARTIAL just for you :)

I've lobbed grenades at civs too, and if there is an error it must be really intermittent because I can't see it. The error you posted showed the shell not recognising the grenade object. I added some debug code that shows "grenadehand" every time a grenade explodes near any unit. I'll keep looking at it though.

[tinter 186]

Is it known that tpw_ebs will mess with mortar aiming? I've tried to order artillery fire through the support module and it never arrived, probably because it missed. I've also tried to shoot various mortars and they missed with several hundred meters. I'm sure it's a mod doing this, and I believe it might be EBS.

[tinter 186]

I managed to test some more and it's not EBS.

[tpw 2315]

I managed to test some more and it's not EBS.

Glad to hear it! As a bonus, I have tweaked the explosion settings for the upcoming release, and units will react more realistically to mortars and other large explosions - by dying.

[gatordev 219]

I accidentally posted a question in your blood thread, and then wanted to confirm before I posted here. Sure enough, on the Beta, when I have mortars fire at me or AI with EBS engaged, no one dies. When I turn off EBS, everyone dies.

Grenades (both 40mm and hand) work as they should with EBS turned on. I haven't tested arty yet, or tanks (haven't even messed with a tank yet). Anyone else having this issue? I'll try with the release tonight.

[tpw 2315]

I accidentally posted a question in your blood thread, and then wanted to confirm before I posted here. Sure enough, on the Beta, when I have mortars fire at me or AI with EBS engaged, no one dies. When I turn off EBS, everyone dies.

Grenades (both 40mm and hand) work as they should with EBS turned on. I haven't tested arty yet, or tanks (haven't even messed with a tank yet). Anyone else having this issue? I'll try with the release tonight.

I'll release the updated EBS with better explosion handling in an hour or 2. Thanks for your testing!

[tpw 2315]

TPW EBS v1.09: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/481663/TPW_MODS.zip

Changes:

- what the @#$% happened to 1.08?

- Improved explosive detection and handling. Units will respond appropriately to mortars, missles, bombs etc.

- All units periodically reset their suppression status to prevent being "stuck".

- Introduced "all in one" startup hint for all TPW mods, you'll get the one hint showing all active mods.

- Script versions will detect an already running addon and quit.

Edited September 13, 2013 by tpw

[Takoda 10]

units will react more realistically to mortars and other large explosions - by dying.

Haha good one. I'll do some testing tonight, thanks for all your work mate.

[Guest]

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TPW Engine Based Suppression v1.09



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[dav 22]

Your mods are excellent, thank you.

[r.flagg 11]

tpw,

Was piecing together a mission, a TPW's Greatest Hits: The Scripts Sessions kinda thing. Wanted to have a template on hand with working mission that was all scripts/no mod. Don't ask why, I'm just big on making templates for myself, for whenever I might want them.

Noticed that the mod readme says "The script version is in @TPW_EBS\scripts. Instructions for running it are in the header of the script." Yet the instructions don't seem to be there as indicated. It looks like maybe for EBS/Fall/LOS/Houselights and Bleedout, the "To Use" section is missing.

I suspect the call line for EBS probably goes a little something like this;

0 = [5,1,1,0,500,1,1,1] execvm "tpw_ebs.sqf";

but I thought I would mention it anyway.

[Takoda 10]

The mod works perfectly on Altis, the AI always get down low when taking accurate fire, and fighting against multiple AI at the same time is a serious challenge because they won't just walk around like idiots anymore, they stay low behind cover making them much harder to spot and hit. Great work tpw.