Arma 3 full analysis - The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

[dmarkwick 261]

The list seems valid mostly, but I can see the general bias even so - the "good" list is often augmented with "however", "although" and "but" disclaimers after them, but the "bad" points are just listed with no similar disclaiming addition.

Personally I see a general improvement in gameplay. I prefer it to ArmA2 for example (even though I import ArmA2 assets into the game, but that's a separate thing I think. I play ArmA2 assets with ArmA3 units).

IMO you missed out:

Ragdoll. Makes a huge difference to the game IMO.

Improved sky.

Comand/watch console.

Smoother/better/cooler (as in my PC doesn't generate the same amount of heat) performance for similar situations to ArmA2 scenarios.

Layered fog (superb IMO).

Improved particle performance & abilities.

[mac81 0]

Its a simulator of sorts - you can't model fatigue, real life attributes to weapons, handling etc (for vehicles) and then suddenly dumb down the chopper - that doesn't make sense, to me anyway.

Nothing had been dumb down because the helo flight model had always been like it is in A3 since Armed assault. The fact is that this is mainly an infantry simulator, and I think that all the effort of the developpers and the wishes of the community are focused on improving it under this aspect. But anyway I undertand your POV and in part I agree with you that's why should be a good thing to have the possibility to chose between a realistic flight model and rockie one.

[Alwarren 2767]

Personally I see a general improvement in gameplay. I prefer it to ArmA2 for example (even though I import ArmA2 assets into the game, but that's a separate thing I think. I play ArmA2 assets with ArmA3 units).

That's obviously a highly personal thing, because I cannot for the life of me see improvements in *gameplay*

- Movement became ridiculously arcady. Neither weapon size nor loadout nor even injuries have a major impact on movement (No interia, no limping). You can rotate around 360 degrees in half a second, even with a backpack, launcher, and anti-material sniper rifle. Even on the ground. Adequate for a breakdance simulator, not good for any sort of game that claims to be rooted in reality.

- Grenade throwing is ridiculously fast, and with the ridiculous amount of stuff you can carry, you can spam grenades out of your backpack at an insane rate. It's no longer instant suicide as in Arma 2, but completely and hopelessly overpowered and cartoony. No other game I have ever seen lets you spam grenades like this, not even CoD.

- No more loadout selection in briefings. That one is a real bother to me, since I strongly dislike Ammo boxes if they don't fit (i.e. I don't see why there should be a magic ammo box when you are helicopter-inserted).

- You can still easily blow yourself up with a satchel charge even though you wanted to switch weapon.

- Sun is no longer a gameplay factor. It basically adds some nice little blob in the sky, nothing else.

- Team play no longer required. Every soldier is a self-contained one man army due to carry capacity (in the process of being changed but still too high) and especially those goddamned FAK's.

- Taking out the AIS/First aid modules resulted in a medical system that has next to no influence on game.

- While the attachment system is nice, I hate the fact that you can pick up any weapon and attach their scope to your weapon ready-to-use. Scopes need to be zeroed, and while it might be fine for your own scope to be removed and re-attached, just picking up a sniper scope from an anti-material rifle and slapping it onto your MX should not be possible. Customizing weapons would have been something for the briefing, but then, in the briefing, you can't do anything with your equipment.

What exactly ARE the improvements in gameplay you see? I'd be very interested. And please don't say "smooth movement", because that isn't smooth, it's just arcady... could have as well added a jump button for bunny hopping.

[mac81 0]

What exactly ARE the improvements in gameplay you see? I'd be very interested. And please don't say "smooth movement", because that isn't smooth, it's just arcady... could have as well added a jump button for bunny hopping.

Well I personally think that movement inside the buildings in ArmA2 was terrific and frustrating, yes at the end I got used to it, there was nothing else I could do about it. You say arcady movement? I don't think so, for me arcade movements are the one you see in BF3 where all soldiers are simply athletes running, sprinting, jumping above everything in the map all the time with no sign of tiredness affecting them. At least now the slow walk while aiming with rifle don't produce that ugly swinging that made house sweeping very difficult like it was in ArmA2.

[purepassion 22]

This should actually be in the bad section. The stances in itself are a nice addition, but the way you have to use them is a pain in the butt. You constantly spend seconds to adjust your stances. If you are in low knee stance you have to cycle through all the stances to finally get to a high stance again with a key combo that is far from comfortable. The stances should be on the scrollwheel for smooth and intuitive cycle.

Why would you think that? Just press X to fully get up and press CTRL+W 2 times, that's all :) Using the mousewheel would remove a finger from the trigger.

[Alwarren 2767]

Well I personally think that movement inside the buildings in ArmA2 was terrific and frustrating, yes at the end I got used to it, there was nothing else I could do about it. You say arcady movement? I don't think so, for me arcade movements are the one you see in BF3 where all soldiers are simply athletes running, sprinting, jumping above everything in the map all the time with no sign of tiredness affecting them. At least now the slow walk while aiming with rifle don't produce that ugly swinging that made house sweeping very difficult like it was in ArmA2.

If you ask me (which you probably don't but I am answering anyway), the movement in houses is fine in Arma 3 only because there is no weapon collision. So while yes, it is easy to navigate inside buildings, it doesn't make any sense to take short weapons since sniper rifles work just fine in CQB. So that basically went from one extreme to the other. In the process, it makes SMG's completely useless (as in every ARMA game so far) since there is no advantage from the weapon length (or rather, no penalty).

Is this a step forward? Maybe a hesitant one, but again the fact that you can carry so much and can easily carry a launcher, backpack, three missiles and a sniper rifle and don't really need anything else because the sniper rifle works perfectly in CQB (and can shoot through walls), this isn't really an improvement in my opinion.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 ----------

Why would you think that? Just press X to fully get up and press CTRL+W 2 times, that's all :) Using the mousewheel would remove a finger from the trigger.

I don't like the fact that the method is hardcoded. The only thing you have is a stance adjust key, you can't map "Stance Up" and "Stance Down" to separate keys. They're tied to the forward/backward movement keys, meaning you cannot drop stance while you move, as you can with the other (regular) stances.

[dale0404 5]

If you ask me (which you probably don't but I am answering anyway), the movement in houses is fine in Arma 3 only because there is no weapon collision. So while yes, it is easy to navigate inside buildings, it doesn't make any sense to take short weapons since sniper rifles work just fine in CQB. So that basically went from one extreme to the other. In the process, it makes SMG's completely useless (as in every ARMA game so far) since there is no advantage from the weapon length (or rather, no penalty).

Is this a step forward? Maybe a hesitant one, but again the fact that you can carry so much and can easily carry a launcher, backpack, three missiles and a sniper rifle and don't really need anything else because the sniper rifle works perfectly in CQB (and can shoot through walls), this isn't really an improvement in my opinion.

Sorry mate, your saying that you would take sniper rifle over an SMG into CQB? That's a bit silly....

[dmarkwick 261]

That's obviously a highly personal thing, because I cannot for the life of me see improvements in *gameplay*

- Movement became ridiculously arcady. Neither weapon size nor loadout nor even injuries have a major impact on movement (No interia, no limping). You can rotate around 360 degrees in half a second, even with a backpack, launcher, and anti-material sniper rifle. Even on the ground. Adequate for a breakdance simulator, not good for any sort of game that claims to be rooted in reality.

I was playing only last night, and I was injured to the point I could no longer run. That counts as a "limp" to me :) I don't think the added animation of limping would have affected my gameplay.

- Grenade throwing is ridiculously fast, and with the ridiculous amount of stuff you can carry, you can spam grenades out of your backpack at an insane rate. It's no longer instant suicide as in Arma 2, but completely and hopelessly overpowered and cartoony. No other game I have ever seen lets you spam grenades like this, not even CoD.

Yes, but it's an improvement. It's not there yet, but it's an improvement.

- No more loadout selection in briefings. That one is a real bother to me, since I strongly dislike Ammo boxes if they don't fit (i.e. I don't see why there should be a magic ammo box when you are helicopter-inserted).

Was there ever a loadout selection in briefings? In any case - loadout is most normally decided by the mission author yes? That's been my experience anyway. And as you say, weapon/ammo crates cater for the more "open" gameplay, even if you don't like it :) (IMO weapon/ammo crates should only be upon mission start.)

- You can still easily blow yourself up with a satchel charge even though you wanted to switch weapon.

Yes.

- Sun is no longer a gameplay factor. It basically adds some nice little blob in the sky, nothing else.

IMO the sun was never more than a minor inconvenience in practise. Still, I take the point.

- Team play no longer required. Every soldier is a self-contained one man army due to carry capacity (in the process of being changed but still too high) and especially those goddamned FAK's.

Again, mission design.

- Taking out the AIS/First aid modules resulted in a medical system that has next to no influence on game.

I still find use for the medic...? I can somewhat stop myself from dying once ingame, from there I need to get to a medic. Sounds like a mission design thing again if you wish for FAKs to be removed.

- While the attachment system is nice, I hate the fact that you can pick up any weapon and attach their scope to your weapon ready-to-use. Scopes need to be zeroed, and while it might be fine for your own scope to be removed and re-attached, just picking up a sniper scope from an anti-material rifle and slapping it onto your MX should not be possible. Customizing weapons would have been something for the briefing, but then, in the briefing, you can't do anything with your equipment.

That doesn't bother me at all.

What exactly ARE the improvements in gameplay you see? I'd be very interested. And please don't say "smooth movement", because that isn't smooth, it's just arcady... could have as well added a jump button for bunny hopping.

Hey look, you can't say all this stuff is subjective and then artificially limit my own response because you have an opinion that differs... :)

In answer to your question, smooth movement. :)

[fragmachine 12]

@dale0404 I think he meant it should be more penalting. Overall I agree with Alwarren statement - whatever it could sound dramatic in some areas - because it plays that way in these. Hell, even in A2 you could walk on top of some high mountain in less than five minutes while in reality most of us it would take at least 30 minutes or so.

Anyway it is interesting topic to talk about, because we as human beings have our physical limits - why not extent it to the gameplay?

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Sorry mate, your saying that you would take sniper rifle over an SMG into CQB? That's a bit silly....

Why is it silly? The game mechanics currently allow it and make the sniper rifle preferable even in CQB. What are the advantages of Vector ingame over GM6 in CQB? Larger magazine?

[dale0404 5]

Why is it silly? The game allows it and makes the sniper rifle preferable in CQB even. What are the advantages of Vector ingame over GM6? Larger magazine?

I suppose it boils down to how you play the game. I always try and play with crosshair and 3rd person disabled. So to me, using a sniper rifle over a SMG just seems silly. You lose all the advantages of what an SMG is designed for. And a sniper rifle is just that, used for sniping.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

I suppose it boils down to how you play the game. I always try and play with crosshair and 3rd person disabled. So to me, using a sniper rifle over a SMG just seems silly. You lose all the advantages of what an SMG is designed for. And a sniper rifle is just that, used for sniping.

So what are those advantages ingame that the SMG is designed for? Why do you deem it silly? What makes you prefer the SMG for CQB? Crosshair and 3rd person are irrelevant in this, either way, assume them to be turned off in this comparison.

Sniper rifles have the same collision as the SMG so doors or walls are not a problem and while the current mouse mechanics are beautiful to play with, some weapons, like sniper rifles and heavy MG's need to have some kind of limiting on the speed of rotation to make them feel heavy and such. But they don't, so they all control the same and collide the same.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[dale0404 5]

Surely you must realise that if you are doing CQB using a SMG on full auto (spray and pray) it will always be more advantageous to using a single shot sniper rifle? Especially when there is no cross hair to guide you. So, the crosshair and to a lesser degree 3rd person are relevant in this respect.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Surely you must realise that if you are doing CQB using a SMG on full auto (spray and pray) it will always be more advantageous to using a single shot sniper rifle? Especially when there is no cross hair to guide you. So, the crosshair and to a lesser degree 3rd person are relevant in this respect.

It should be advantageous, and I'd love it if it were, but it's not right now as others are pointing out.

Yes, but you're spraying with 9mm pellets at me while I'm penetrating you and 4 of your stacked up friends behind you. Crosshair is irrelevant as i'm assuming we're both sighted and even unsighted, CQB is close enough for both of us to be large enough targets that the relative center of the screen will be enough of an aiming point.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sniperwolf572

[-ghost-tf 12]

Surely you must realise that if you are doing CQB using a SMG on full auto (spray and pray) it will always be more advantageous to using a single shot sniper rifle? Especially when there is no cross hair to guide you. So, the crosshair and to a lesser degree 3rd person are relevant in this respect.

You do realize that you can put a CQB scope on the sniper right? Making it a singleshot shotgun, that can shoot through walls.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

You do realize that you can put a CQB scope on the sniper right? Making it a singleshot shotgun, that can shoot through walls.

You don't even have to, SOS has a perfectly useable backup sight on top of it which is enough and irons are enough in CQB as well.

[dale0404 5]

There is no "should" about it. It is more advantageous and you know it is. Saying that I am spraying pellets at you is not a valid argument and you know it. As for penetrating me and my 4 friends behind... well the less said about that the better I think.

---------- Post added at 12:12 ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 ----------

You do realize that you can put a CQB scope on the sniper right? Making it a singleshot shotgun, that can shoot through walls.

Yes I do realise this but even so an SMG wins everytime over a sniper rifle.

[Sniperwolf572 758]

As for penetrating me and my 4 friends behind... well the less said about that the better I think.

Heh, that came out wrong. I meant that a single .50 cal will penetrate multiple humans lined up and kill them all, will go through walls and whatnot, while 9mm in the current SMG's will hit you and do a small amount of damage.

I tried it out, I'd love it if I couldn't be more effective with a GM6 than with a Vermin or Scorpion, but currently ingame, it's not the case. I suppose I'll leave it at that as we can go in circles.

[b00tsy 28]

Why would you think that? Just press X to fully get up and press CTRL+W 2 times, that's all :) Using the mousewheel would remove a finger from the trigger.

Still, when the bullets are flying over my head, I often am braking my fingers doing the ctrl/w/s/a/d thing + that I often hold the shift key accidently in the combat rush. I just don´t find it comfy as it is now, I do like the stances in itself, it´s quite useful.

[Kemeros 1]

Why would you think that? Just press X to fully get up and press CTRL+W 2 times, that's all :) Using the mousewheel would remove a finger from the trigger.

Hum no. I can use 3 fingers on a mouse. There is no need to scroll with your index. The middle finger works fine. The one after on mouse2.

[Alwarren 2767]

Sorry mate, your saying that you would take sniper rifle over an SMG into CQB? That's a bit silly....

Yes, it is, but it is possible, and has no disadvantage. This is also assuming that you don't do CQB exclusively, which is a sane assumption since house complexes are rather small. So maybe not a sniper rifle, but a Zaphir with a scope and big magazine and high fire frequency is the ultimate CQB and normal infantry weapon, since it can do single shots with a high caliber and has a big mag/high fire frequency in CQB, and since there is no penalty for the size OR weight, why would you bother with an SMG.

Yeah, it is silly. That's exactly my point.

I was playing only last night, and I was injured to the point I could no longer run. That counts as a "limp" to me :)

One FAK later, nothing remained. Medic not required. You call that gameplay improvement? That's not better than regenerating health in CoD.

I don't think the added animation of limping would have affected my gameplay.

Why is it a much-asked-for feature then? Why does DayZ has it? It's not the point either way. It wasn't in Arma 2 nor in any other Arma game so far. But the question was

Yes, but it's an improvement. It's not there yet, but it's an improvement.

Loss of control, overpowered overspawning of grenades is an improvement? The only "improvement" I see is that it doesn't lock you into a 2 second animation, but that is hardly a gameplay improvement, it's an attempt to break the animation system's lock, and not an improvement.

Was there ever a loadout selection in briefings?

Beg your pardon? There has been loadouts in the briefing since Flashpoint ('Gear' button in your soldier's item in the team list). It was an essential part in Resistance since stuff carried over from previous missions.

In any case - loadout is most normally decided by the mission author yes? That's been my experience anyway. And as you say, weapon/ammo crates cater for the more "open" gameplay, even if you don't like it :) (IMO weapon/ammo crates should only be upon mission start.)

It doesn't have anything to do with "open" gameplay. It means that you have to find an artificial way to put an ammo crate somewhere. When you just have been dropped by a helicopter, I have a hard time making a magic ammo box appearing believable. Yes, the feature was there in Arma 2 and before, so it's gotten axed. Not an improvement, actually a step backwards.

Again, mission design.

The easy way out, if a mission doesn't remove the broken stuff, it's the mission designers fault. Just like "the community will fix it"

I still find use for the medic...? I can somewhat stop myself from dying once ingame, from there I need to get to a medic. Sounds like a mission design thing again if you wish for FAKs to be removed.

There's the trouble. You can "find use for the medic". The medic's use should be obvious in the first place. And saying "I can somewhat stop myself from dying" is a bit overdramatized. Using a single FAK solves all your issues. Even if you don't use one, you're not going to further bleed out. And again, it's easy to say "If you don't want each soldier to have a portable nuke, it's a mission design issue". It isn't. The concept is already broken, and expecting the mission maker to fix it is just the cheap way out.

Hey look, you can't say all this stuff is subjective and then artificially limit my own response because you have an opinion that differs... :)

In answer to your question, smooth movement. :)

Actually, it seems to me that the "smooth movement" is the ONLY thing you can actually name. Is that so? If not, let me ask again: What gameplay improvements?

---------- Post added at 15:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:57 ----------

Surely you must realise that if you are doing CQB using a SMG on full auto (spray and pray) it will always be more advantageous to using a single shot sniper rifle? Especially when there is no cross hair to guide you. So, the crosshair and to a lesser degree 3rd person are relevant in this respect.

Like I said, drop the sniper rifle then and take the Zaphir. All the advantages in a single package, single shot (which the MX SW magically lost), belt-fed, precise, no disadvantage.

You do realize that you can put a CQB scope on the sniper right? Making it a singleshot shotgun, that can shoot through walls.

You don't even need to, since the sniper scope has a convenient iron backup sight.

[Varanon 892]

I still find use for the medic...? I can somewhat stop myself from dying once ingame, from there I need to get to a medic. Sounds like a mission design thing again if you wish for FAKs to be removed.

You can keep yourself at 75 % health with FAKs which you find everywhere. Every vehicle seems to be stuffed with it, and every fallen enemy has one. Pushing the responsibility to the mission designer is the wrong idea. You can hardly make all the FAKs disappear since they are everywhere. It requires careful scripting.

The only thing that happens at 75 % health is you hear yourself moaning. That alone isn't an issue, so in essence, the medic in A3 DOES NOT HAVE ANY USE at all. In A2, I frequently played medics.. in A3, the medic is as useful as a seagull.. well, a seagull with a gun, maybe, but then, you can basically drop the medic from the team because he has no use whatsoever. And that, my friends, is a game breaker.

What should happen instead is that the whole medic system should see an overhaul (something I strongly hope for for after-release). FAKs are ok, but they should not put you up to 75 % even if you are dying. In fact, ideally FAKs would be used to stop bleeding (which also isn't in the game, just as a visual effect) and maybe heal a tiny bit (like, 5 %). Also, after a certain amount of blood loss (specifically if you lose a lot of blood at once), you should enter a state of shock (basically, drop down, unable to move). In this situation, a medic or another soldier with a FAK could bandage you to stop the bleeding, and only a medic should be able to get you back on your feet again.

I'm not saying the vanilla medic system should be as complex as ACE, but the current version is, sorry to repeat it, a dumped down version that is only one step away from the CoD "crawl into a corner and suck your thumb until your legs regrow" "medical" system.

In answer to your question, smooth movement.

Honestly, that is all you can come up with ? Give me a break.

[Tonci87 163]

I would like to be able to control my stance with the mousewheel too.

I would hen use CTRL+Mousewheel to bring up the Action menu

[dmarkwick 261]

One FAK later, nothing remained. Medic not required. You call that gameplay improvement? That's not better than regenerating health in CoD.

As far as I've seen, the FAK is a one-time health boost that regenerates you to about three-quarters or so health? I don't really give it much consideration I just view it as a basic bandage + painkiller each soldier carries. They can be removed by the mission designer if that gameplay is not desired.

Why is it a much-asked-for feature then? Why does DayZ has it?

I've no idea? A limping animation would not represent improved gameplay to me. It'd be a nice detail, but it'd be just that - an eye-candy-type detail. If I can't move as fast as before because of injury, that's good enough for me gameplay-wise.

Loss of control, overpowered overspawning of grenades is an improvement? The only "improvement" I see is that it doesn't lock you into a 2 second animation, but that is hardly a gameplay improvement, it's an attempt to break the animation system's lock, and not an improvement.

It's a gameplay improvement that you don't have to cycle through all kinds of other selections first before throwing one - I think you're right in that it needs calming down a bit, but overall I'd call it an improvement yes.

Beg your pardon? There has been loadouts in the briefing since Flashpoint ('Gear' button in your soldier's item in the team list). It was an essential part in Resistance since stuff carried over from previous missions.

Well I never played a campaign so I never saw this :)

It doesn't have anything to do with "open" gameplay. It means that you have to find an artificial way to put an ammo crate somewhere. When you just have been dropped by a helicopter, I have a hard time making a magic ammo box appearing believable. Yes, the feature was there in Arma 2 and before, so it's gotten axed. Not an improvement, actually a step backwards.

Is the helo inventory available in flight?

The easy way out, if a mission doesn't remove the broken stuff, it's the mission designers fault. Just like "the community will fix it"

The mission designer has a lot of resoponsibility to achieve the gameplay he's looking for. Simply demanding the game already plays how YOU wish it to play isn't going to cut it I'm afraid, and it never has. Nor should it ever IMO.

There's the trouble. You can "find use for the medic". The medic's use should be obvious in the first place. And saying "I can somewhat stop myself from dying" is a bit overdramatized. Using a single FAK solves all your issues. Even if you don't use one, you're not going to further bleed out. And again, it's easy to say "If you don't want each soldier to have a portable nuke, it's a mission design issue". It isn't. The concept is already broken, and expecting the mission maker to fix it is just the cheap way out.

Well myself I believe you're overdramatising the whole FAK/useless medic thing. Remove the FAKs, hey presto you need a medic. It sounds terribly easy to me to achieve this gameplay. You are complaining about default loadouts, well like it or not it's part of the default loadout. Just.... remove it.

Actually, it seems to me that the "smooth movement" is the ONLY thing you can actually name. Is that so? If not, let me ask again: What gameplay improvements?

Well, let's see... the ragdoll improves gameplay. How? Well because now I can't rely on recognising pre-made death animations to know if that unit I hit is really dead or not. I note that, especially when a unit is partially visible like in a building or behind a low wall, when he goes down it could be either him dying or him going prone... the differnce is negligible most often. I still need to be aware of that unit's location when I move in and I still need to consider him a threat.

Also, a dead body used to be quite easy to spot as there were only a limited number of death poses. Now when I see a strange object I'm compelled to be more careful and place a few rounds into it just to be sure.

Layered fog improves gameplay for me. I've proven to myself that AI see at different distances according to the layer of fog he's in, and it makes me happy to have to bear that in mind when I move into lower/higher areas.

The stances improve gameplay incredibly, I doubt I need to explain that one :)

Etc

[Sniperwolf572 758]

Well I never played a campaign so I never saw this :)

Wow, what, how, even without ever touching the campaign? :D

It's been a core feature of the game, present in every mission created for the games up to Arma 3. Even if the mission maker does not specify additional gear you can select, you could always check and shuffle the gear the units have on the briefing screen. And it's one of the only ways to access AI inventory anywhere.

Here it is in OFP:

And in titles after that, units in your group that are listed in the "Units" page have a little "Gear" link from which you can open their inventory.