TMR Modular Realism

[tortuosit 485]

Yeah, we know the same problem from sthud not appearing after loading a savegame. :(

[ru55lee 2]

Yeah, we know the same problem from sthud not appearing after loading a savegame. :(

But if I press the "full stop" button on the num pad twice it works :D

[gliptal 25]

Tao, about CQB weapon handling and balancing, could a method similar to the one I described in this post be implemented? I especially see some gain in AI behaviour immersion. Your awesome modularity .pbos would make the issue about people not liking the thing irrelevant, since one could deactivate the feature at his leisure.

What about forcing a "lowered weapon" state whenever a unit with a certain weapon type goes through a door (or maybe climbs some stairs)? This way one would need to press the keybinding to "raise weapon" whenever he enters a room. This could then be applied only to certain weapon classes (like LMGs and Sniper Rifles).

Maybe even introduce a "forced lowered" time to the function (you can't raise the weapon before this time has passed), so for example if I enter a room with a Sniper Rifle the weapon will be forced down for 2 secs, an LMG 1.5 sec, an AR 1 sec, an SMG 0.5 secs, a pistol 0 secs. Or the forced time could be tied to the weapon's model length instead of the weapon's type.

You could also make the reraise automatic in this last case.

Or maybe force weapon lowering as the unit passes through a door, and then slow down the automatic raising animation by a factor dependant on weight and/or length and/or weapon type. I'm not sure animations can be slowed down though.

I guess this would also look decent from an animation point of view, seeing units lowering weapons as they enter a room and then rising them back up when they are in.

Yay!

[maturin 12]

Maybe even introduce a "forced lowered" time to the function (you can't raise the weapon before this time has passed), so for example if I enter a room with a Sniper Rifle the weapon will be forced down for 2 secs, an LMG 1.5 sec, an AR 1 sec, an SMG 0.5 secs, a pistol 0 secs. Or the forced time could be tied to the weapon's model length instead of the weapon's type.

That is such a radically horrid idea, the likes of which I have rarely heard on these boards. Congratulations.

Also downright impossible to accomplish, except with some bizarre resource-hogging script that constantly tracks the distance to every nearby door (not doorway).

ArmA 2 had a mod where weapons were automatically lowered when colliding with walls, and automatically raised afterwards. Problem solved.

[gliptal 25]

That is such a radically horrid idea, the likes of which I have rarely heard on these boards. Congratulations.

Thanks. :)

That is such a radically horrid idea, the likes of which I have rarely heard on these boards. Congratulations.

Also downright impossible to accomplish, except with some bizarre resource-hogging script that constantly tracks the distance to every nearby door (not doorway).

ArmA 2 had a mod where weapons were automatically lowered when colliding with walls, and automatically raised afterwards. Problem solved.

Problem is not solved with the wall colliding mod, since you can enter a room spraying with an LMG with no penalty whatsoever, rendering SMGs a useless choiche in the situations where they should shine over all other weapons.

Are you sure the script would be that heavy? After all there already is a similar implementation that checks if the player is near a door, used to activate the action menu.

Yay!

[cool=azroul13 14]

ArmA 2 had a mod where weapons were automatically lowered when colliding with walls, and automatically raised afterwards. Problem solved.

It has been ported to Arma3 and worked pretty well, I don't test it since the Alpha and neither the creator. It was Norrin work if I'm remenber well.

[pro 10]

Hi

I will add my constructive criticism torwards TMR.

It is a great addon but not a "must-have" for the milsim community as I see it and reasons are that some of the optics are not real at all, and I have aimed down alot of sights during my 7 years serving.

Few pointers-

Scope sway - They do exist and there is nothing you can do about it. For me playing with an TrackIR 5 I find it natural to be able to aim down sight and turn my head around, scanning the sector, although not in magnified mode.

Illuminated Sights - Depends on the maker and producer of the sights if it's there or not, new optics have it integrated while older ones does not if it's not a special producer/maker/brand.

The "jerk" - When a gun fires it will jerk towards you and you will lose sight of the target for a brief second, you would need a mounted rifle for it being so stable that your eye and sight alignment are still. Therefor they have introduced the double-tap that fires 2 rapid rounds towards the centre mass of a body, one in chest and one in head (optimal hit)

I can agree that the normal standard optics may need improvement, but not the same direction as TMR are going. If your sight does not have an illuminated cross then swap optics or close in for a close-kill with a pistol. My AG-3 did not have any illuminated iron-sight ;)

My few cents, and before you flame me, this constructive criticism is ment towards those who want to make it realistic. Good job and a good effort as been made so far, keep it up, but remember not to make it into a "console optic package".

Yours

Pro

[maturin 12]

Explain why you can't actually enter a room spraying with an LMG. If you're not trying to swing it around in a cramped environment, it's the same as any other weapon. The aforementioned mod would fix the problem. If you don't try to whack you weapon into concrete, but walk straight through the door, there's no difference in real life either.

Holding an LMG or sniper at the ready and shooting on the move is much more difficult than with a lighter weapon, but this requires a comprehensive re-write of movement code. And has nothing specifically to do with doorways. You're just fixating on that silly youtube video of a guy doing CQB with a Lynx.

After all there already is a similar implementation that checks if the player is near a door, used to activate the action menu.

No.

And I was mostly being facetious, even if you could do it like that. Forcing you to lower your weapon when within 1m of a door is gamebreaking, for obvious reasons.

[gliptal 25]

I was thinking about the flow of CQB action rather than slow and calculated movement.

The point is I really don't think you can enter a room spraying with an LMG and cover an 180° arc with the speed you can attain now, while mantaining military and friendly fire discipline. I never held a real weapon in my life, but I did hold ASGs with equal size and weight. There just is no way I can swing something like an M60 or an M249 with the same speed and precision of a much shorter and lighter carbine, let alone do so while moving with a real weapon that is firing full auto.

As someone stated in that other thread, if a squadmate is going through the door your barrel is pointed down: then you go through the door and point the barrel back up. Ther must be a way to simulate the fact that you are moving 2.5kgs X 50cm of SMG vs 10kgs X 1m of LMG. It's a lot of inertia to swing around safely.

By just playing with ASGs you can feel the gain of using a pistol against even a carbine in tight CQB situations, why shouldn't this be valid with real weapons? If I can land a shot on you before you can turn your howling heavy LMG to face me because I have a much lighter weapon, I won the engagement.

Yay!

Edited October 23, 2013 by Gliptal

[maturin 12]

But that's a completely different issue with a completely different (and appallingly complicated) set of possible solutions. Nothing to do with doorways and rooms.

At the very least, heavy weapons need the aiming sway inertia they had in ArmA 2's free aim.

[pro 10]

I was thinking about the flow of CQB action rather than slow and calculated movement.

The point is I really don't think you can enter a room spraying with an LMG and cover an 180° arc with the speed you can attain now, while mantaining military and friendly fire discipline. I never held a real weapon in my life, but I did hold ASGs with equal size and weight. There just is no way I can swing something like an M60 or an M249 with the same speed and precision of a much shorter and lighter carbine, let alone do so while moving with a real weapon that is firing full auto.

As someone stated in that other thread, if a squadmate is going through the door your barrel is pointed down: then you go through the door and point the barrel back up. Ther must be a way to simulate the fact that you are moving 2.5kgs X 50cm of SMG vs 10kgs X 1m of LMG. It's a lot of inertia to swing around safely.

By just playing with ASGs you can feel the gain of using a pistol against even a carbine in tight CQB situations, why shouldn't this be valid with real weapons? If I can land a shot on you before you can turn your howling heavy LMG to face me because I have a much lighter weapon, I won the engagement.

Yay!

Even if you can not hold a heavy machinegun that does not mean someone else can't. It is possible to "spray&pray" with a LMG, but with the loss of accuracy, great for supressing fire and at any point a LMG usually have heavier rounds that would cause greater recoil.

[gliptal 25]

Even if you can not hold a heavy machinegun that does not mean someone else can't. It is possible to "spray&pray" with a LMG, but with the loss of accuracy, great for supressing fire and at any point a LMG usually have heavier rounds that would cause greater recoil.

Yes I was assuming that, I was simply stating that lighter weapons have an advantage in tight situations over heavy ones.

Yay!

[13islucky 10]

Doesn't the M2 on the Offroad (Armed) have inertia? It would be interesting to see (even if it doesn't work) how inertia would work on small arms. Is there any way to do that?

[kurtz1 10]

Could you look at using the Nightstalker scope on an MX rifle braced against a window in "big stone house". I would like a second opinion if the sway while looking through the braced scope is correct.

[qdrummer21 10]

--Post Deleted-- I got it working.

Edited October 27, 2013 by qdrummer21

[progamer 14]

I am curious to what will happen with TMR after ACE3 is released? Will we see TMR take its own direction?

[scrim 1]

Maybe. Personally, the things TMR do I find to be superior to what ACE does, at least in A2. Things like weapons resting especially, you shouldn't have to press a key every time, because you'd rest it naturally. However, you should also be able to brace it more against something, deliberately. That is something that TMR does that ACE never had. Then there's things like recoil. AFAIK, there's zero difference between recoil and weapons climbing high up into the air when using ACE, but yet again, TMR does that better. I don't know, maybe it is that TMR's sort of basic and aesthetic in a way. ACE became so incredibly large I felt it was sort of messy in a way; the work effort became so spread out over an incredibly large number of areas, and thus it took very long to get basic things fixed even though they completely ruined the mod, like the several weeks that went by before the interaction menus were actually fixed for example. It's not criticism of the dev team, but rather an acknowledgement of the fact that they were running something that easily could've been a professional commercial small scale product, but with the resources of a large/medium sized game mod.

[MavericK96 0]

TMR so far is like ACE Lite, IMO. I like it.

[heavygunner 179]

I doubt that there will be an Ace 3. The last thing I heard from the Ace devs was a long time ago.

[king homer 1]

Maybe. Personally, the things TMR do I find to be superior to what ACE does, at least in A2. Things like weapons resting especially, you shouldn't have to press a key every time, because you'd rest it naturally. However, you should also be able to brace it more against something, deliberately. That is something that TMR does that ACE never had. Then there's things like recoil. AFAIK, there's zero difference between recoil and weapons climbing high up into the air when using ACE, but yet again, TMR does that better. I don't know, maybe it is that TMR's sort of basic and aesthetic in a way. ACE became so incredibly large I felt it was sort of messy in a way; the work effort became so spread out over an incredibly large number of areas, and thus it took very long to get basic things fixed even though they completely ruined the mod, like the several weeks that went by before the interaction menus were actually fixed for example. It's not criticism of the dev team, but rather an acknowledgement of the fact that they were running something that easily could've been a professional commercial small scale product, but with the resources of a large/medium sized game mod.

Well was there a TMR mod for A2? I'm not aware of one and comparing the capabilities of Arma3 with what "we" had back in 2009 make your statement quite doubtful for me. No offense but most dead ends we ran into, were caused by engine limitations. ;)

I doubt that there will be an Ace 3. The last thing I heard from the Ace devs was a long time ago.

Yeah it's pretty quite around ACE but hey, I take TMR for a pretty good replacement so far.

[progamer 14]

I doubt that there will be an Ace 3. The last thing I heard from the Ace devs was a long time ago.

Without Xeno, there are 14 other ACE developers. If you have seen what is planned with ACE 3, you would realize why it may not be released soon. You also have to understand many modders are waiting for the new BI tools for Arma 3.

[laxemann 1673]

I doubt that there will be an Ace 3. The last thing I heard from the Ace devs was a long time ago.

Just wait a bit ;)

[scrim 1]

Well was there a TMR mod for A2? I'm not aware of one and comparing the capabilities of Arma3 with what "we" had back in 2009 make your statement quite doubtful for me. No offense but most dead ends we ran into, were caused by engine limitations. ;)

Fair enough. Thing is since there was no TMR for A2, and no ACE for A3, yet at least, that's pretty much the only comparison I can make.

[Taosenai 11]

A lot of interesting discussion here.

But here is some bad news!

Due to an overwhelming amount of work in real life as I enter a critical phase of my PhD work (including research abroad very soon), I'm afraid TMR development is basically stopped for the foreseeable future. I will try to continue to keep the mod functional as it is, but I simply don't see myself being able to continue to add features on a reasonable timetable. This is unfortunate for TMR and unexpected -- I didn't expect my real life timetable to accelerate quite so rapidly (though I'm pleased it has).

Because TMR is open source, I encourage someone to fork and continue it! If not, I'm certain that in time other, greater mods will replace and surpass its meager feature set, anyway.

I won't be able to check this thread much I don't suspect, but interested forkers/devs can email me or contact me through github if they need any specifics on TMR. I'm also willing to relicense sections of the code as needed, if that's beneficial.

[gliptal 25]

Sad to hear, but good luck for your PhD!

Yay!