Fatigue effects

[TSAndrey 1]

Run across the map in game all in one go, then tell me if you're out of breath in real life.

The blur is an abstraction, just an indication of tiredness.

The blur appears when you run for 20 seconds :butbut:

[gossamersolid 155]

The post processing effect has nothing to do with epilepsy. It has more to do with Motion Sickness. If you don't have motion sickness, you will not be able to comprehend WHY this effect causes it.

[metalcraze 290]

Remove blur, force the player to walk when tired and/or carrying too much.

Because fatigue effects are non existent right now. So game has an annoying blur that gameplay-wise means literally nothing as you can still put on 100 kgs and run up steep hills like nothing's happened.

Yeah I will get slightly blurred vision? Whatever! I can destroy a dozen APCs all by myself since I'm loaded with missiles.

Because really BIS - nobody cares about how much they put in their backpacks right now. Current "fatigue" is nothing but a little inconvenience.

[McSenna 1]

Hmmm let me see; Weapons, ammo (6 magazines minimum, 2 grenades), body armour - torso, knees, groin, hands and eyes, canteens, C rations, radio, uniform and boots not to mention any other items needed while on Operations - spare batteries for radios, ammunition (often including Javelin missiles), water (lots of) and medical supplies.

This stuff on average weighs 110lbs or 50kgs!

I would like to see some of you people run for 20 seconds with that and not want to puke, let alone get tired.

[Masharra 10]

Hmmm let me see; Weapons, ammo (6 magazines minimum, 2 grenades), body armour - torso, knees, groin, hands and eyes, canteens, C rations, radio, uniform and boots not to mention any other items needed while on Operations - spare batteries for radios, ammunition (often including Javelin missiles) and medical supplies.

This stuff on average weighs 110lbs!

I would like to see some of you people run for 20 seconds with that and not want to puke, let alone get tired.

to be blunt thats pt weght at my old unit. xP Alas I was mortar, so we were excused if we werent at the "front" of the pack.

[liquidpinky 11]

Because fatigue effects are non existent right now.

I can assure you they exist right now, have you even bothered testing it?

Using anything other than gun lowered and one hand free causes blur and fatigue within a few yards when the encumbrance is almost full. It also takes an age to recover from the fatigue effect once it has started.

Maybe try loading that bar up to the max and give it a shot, trust me when I say you wont sprint very far and long distance on foot will require the walking with hand free pace or you are in for a world of blur and the inabilty to steady your gun for minutes at a time.

[chortles 263]

I just realized: what Liquidpinky described is all that RiE actually described as far as promised fatigued effects at E3 play year, to my knowledge... other than sprinting and accuracy (and recovery time thereof) I don't recall him specifically promising anything else but that.

[afp 1]

One more aspect to mention, the inability to sprint after you already sprinted. Some guy running long distances (cross, marathons) told me once that his tehnique is to sprint time to time (not full speed but running faster) then go back to a lower speed fact which allows him to recover somehow. I think the recovery to sprint again should be done while running, adrenaline can make you find resources to sprint again even if youre tired, in certain situations.

[DarkDruid 96]

Thank you for all your feedback. We are currently trying to find out where is a core of this problem. Current version of fatigue effect is in the game since 7th may update. There were some changes after that date, but it was just tweaking of duty coeficient in animations (= how much is fatigue affected by given animation) and the effect itself is the same. There were only few negative reactions on the fatigue effect before beta release, but according to the number of negative reactions after beta release it seems that some new problem appeared.

That is the reason why I would like to ask you for cooperation and help. Could you please describe precisely what is the difference between the fatigue effect in the alpha and in the beta? Are/Were you using any mod which can affect postprocesses? Were you playing with disabled or low postprocesses before the beta? Could you please take some pictures or better videos of the fatigue effect in your game?

Thank you for your help :)

[.kju 3241]

Before beta one could disable PP altogether - now you cant.

[TSAndrey 1]

Thank you for all your feedback. We are currently trying to find out where is a core of this problem. Current version of fatigue effect is in the game since 7th may update. There were some changes after that date, but it was just tweaking of duty coeficient in animations (= how much is fatigue affected by given animation) and the effect itself is the same. There were only few negative reactions on the fatigue effect before beta release, but according to the number of negative reactions after beta release it seems that some new problem appeared.

That is the reason why I would like to ask you for cooperation and help. Could you please describe precisely what is the difference between the fatigue effect in the alpha and in the beta? Are/Were you using any mod which can affect postprocesses? Were you playing with disabled or low postprocesses before the beta? Could you please take some pictures or better videos of the fatigue effect in your game?

Thank you for your help :)

I never had any blur showing up before the Beta. The only thing that happened before, were white corners showing up! I think that this could impact the performance, as this is PP.

[St. Jimmy 272]

;2422906']Before beta one could disable PP altogether - now you cant.

This is why people are so loud about it now because even if you turn all PP stuff down the whole screen blur effect is still there. It's fair now but people maybe didn't know abou the blur effect because it didn't come when PP was off. It should have been this way from the beginning to get better feedback because so many people don't like those PP blur effects.

The fatigue effect should be the same with people who don't use PP and those who use but it seems that blur isn't the best effect.

Edited June 25, 2013 by St. Jimmy

[afp 1]

There were only few negative reactions on the fatigue effect before beta release, but according to the number of negative reactions after beta release it seems that some new problem appeared.

Thanks for taking a look, DarkDruid, there were reports about it here too: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?154557-Not-liking-the-new-Fatigue-system-Jogging-should-not-be-penalised

I didn't get it either before beta, with similar setting, meaning disabled "post processing" effects. Now I have the following settings:

bloom: 0%

blur (both): 0%

ssao: standard

caustics: enabled

When I put the rifle in "at the ready" position, meaning the optics in the middle of the screen, I can clearly see that the blur occurs on the "close" distances around the weapon, not sure this should happen as I thought the PP is disabled.

[byku 13]

And that is the problem guys, what do YOU propose INSTEAD? Because I hope you don't want the only fatigue with heavy breathing, we want something that will truly affect gameplay, and darkening corners is not much(you don't aim with your corners). The blur, although a bit unrealistic, worked. I was annoyed by it and had to stop for a bit, and that was the whole point of it. My propositions:

- a lot worse aiming

- starting to walk instead of run

- more recoil

I don't mind if it would stay as it is(as i hate it... but i like it :P)

Edited June 25, 2013 by Byku

[Masharra 10]

And that is the problem guys, what do YOU propose INSTEAD? Because I hope you don't want the only fatigue with heavy breathing, we want something that will truly affect gameplay, and darkening corners is not much(you don't aim with your corners). The blur, although a bit unrealistic, worked. I was annoyed by it and had to stop for a bit, and that was the whole point of it. My propositions:

- a lot worse aiming

- starting to walk instead of run

I don't mind if it would stay as it is(as i hate it... but i love it :P)

isnt your arms shaking like a epileptic and not being able to move fast as you like any more enough?

I cant remember what the exercise was called but we did it in training. You run for a mile then go shoot, run another mile shoot again, and again and again until we ran out of bullets.

I only really recall the pleasurable moments when I blinked and there was cool darkness and the almost passing out dizziness for a second or two after being yelled at to go prone.

After that I saw perfectly, now my hands on the otherhand. :D They didnt listen to me as well as I wanted, neither did my breathing.

[twisted 127]

To pipe in. I like the blur effect, heavy breathing and wavy hands and it takes a lot longer for fatigue to kick in. It's good and encourages smarter planning and not running around like it is quake. However ! Of course there's an however. Fatigue isn't yet influenced by weight AFAIK, so carrying lighter weapon had no friggen advantage. Plus some very steep slopes make you get fatigue even if just walking.

Edit. I think the increase in complaints is obviously due to fatigue effects not being able to be disabled anymore. That's sort of good, as I like them and wouldn't want anyone on a server to have unfair advantenge. However wouldn't the best thing be a setting or module that globally sets fatigue blur on or off? The effects of heavy breathing, slowing down and wavy have should not be able to be disabled.

Edited June 25, 2013 by twisted

[fujix 11]

Current solution with blur is very bad. Currently in the game you jog for 10 sec and screen goes all blurry. I don´t know about you guys but when I run for 10 sec my vision does NOT go blurry.

Its really easy to fix this fatigue issue without adding worthless and annoying things to represent fatigue.

1. The more stuff you carry the less you can sprint.

If you are carrying zero equipment you should be able to sprint longer then if you carry weapons for example.

2. If you have sprinted or jogged for some time add sway like in A2.

3. You should be able to jog for a long time, even with full gear. After some time tho force walking. Again the heavier the load the faster the effect kicks in.

Thats it. Very very simple. No need to add blur effects and whatnot to simulate that you are tired.

Edited June 25, 2013 by fujix

[liquidpinky 11]

Kit yourself out with highest carrying capacity vest and backpack, a titan with four missles, m320, four explosives, medikit and then load up on as much ammo as possible and get back to me on weight not effecting anything.

Even jogging without using hand down combat version will have you blurring and unable to aim in no time, with long recovery required.

I would like the blur reduced so i can at least see and maybe have the ability to plan ahead a little while resting up and recovering from the fatigue, which I find to be working relatively fairly at the moment. I am fine with detrimental effects other than the blur, which could be reduced but not removed completly.

[Azzur33 1]

Could you please capture a video and send them to youtube or something to show that "Blinding Blur after 10 seconds and few yards".

If there is something going wrong, and the effects work somehow differently for some. That would be helpful I guess.

Because I think the fatigue effects and when they kick in, are almost perfect.

If you are sprinting or jogging up a steep hill with heavy equipments, the effect comes pretty soon, same if you are crouch-sprinting/-jogging, like it should. It really hurts you in real life, too.

And about the effects, blurring is pulsating, not constant blur. If you get it, start walking, or lay down, it goes away as your breathing calms down. So it should be no problem at all.

If you are smarter with the sprinting and jogging and the paths you select, you can avoid the "annoyances".

[dale0404 5]

I cant see a problem with it myself, maybe a little less blurring but that's about it. You do need a visual indication that you are getting tired as well as a audible one.

[metalcraze 290]

Kit yourself out with highest carrying capacity vest and backpack, a titan with four missles, m320, four explosives, medikit and then load up on as much ammo as possible and get back to me on weight not effecting anything.

Even jogging without using hand down combat version will have you blurring and unable to aim in no time, with long recovery required.

Do you find it ok that you can still jog forever with that load?

As for "aiming shake" - just crouch and hold breath or go prone. Prone eliminates even extreme fatigue aiming shake immediately. Unlike A2.

What's the point in this "fatigue" system when you are running around with 100 kgs and the only downside is a harmless shading effect?

Better remove it at all since it has no gameplay value.

Edited June 25, 2013 by metalcraze

[rotekz 10]

The blur is a joke. Load up a carry-all backpack with kit then run 20 yards and the blur is so strong that it does your eyes in and makes fighting impossible.

Everyone I play with thinks it sh*t. By far the worst thing in the game.

[five_seven5-7 56]

When I take the medic position i look like a Kenyan runner tripping on drugs running from one side to the other, it's an awful effect.

[Azzur33 1]

And the alternatives are?

1) No effects at all, you should be able to sprint when you want,

2) Just slowing down when tired,

3) Just the blur removed,

4) Swaying cam effect,

5) Forced stop or walking,

6) Options to turn blurring effect off.

7) ?

1 = Not good at all.

2 = Boring (like the physical strain only affects your legs, not your whole body and brain). Should other visual effects be removed also, as they have no gameplay value, and they cost some fps.

3 = Ok for some, I guess, but I would miss it. And many others, too.

4 = Please no! (That would be even worse for those few who may be epileptic gamers, by the way)

5 = No way! It would be annoying as hell.

6 = This could work, if possible. Blur off wouldn't give any advantage for those who prefer that, over those who keep it on, either.

[metalcraze 290]

Forced stop or walking,

No way! It would be annoying as hell.

Don't put on AM sniper rifle, rocket launcher, backpack filled with rockets and you won't have to walk. Simple as that.

But of course barely present blur effect that people love to exaggerate is a lot better solution since it doesn't punish anyone in any way.