What's up with all the people using snipers instead of regular rifles.

[chortles 263]

Theres no downside to snipers like there are in real life.

See what Celery said: no amount of "downsides simulation" can overcome the SIK KILLZ.

[ratszo 17]

It's called the virtual ammo box and clueless server admins.

Hmm my tests so far seeing 1.1km kills easy, hoping to extend to 1.5km soon.

Some mission makers may want a 'sniperfest' --most don't.

Server admins need to limit scopes in general, or risk losing players.

Sniperfest ruins PvP play. I don't need to get shot from a thousand meters too many times before I stay away from that server.

[Reuben5150 2]

Some mission makers may want a 'sniperfest' --most don't.

Server admins need to limit scopes in general, or risk losing players.

Sniperfest ruins PvP play. I don't need to get shot from a thousand meters too many times before I stay away from that server.

As I mentioned somewhere.. This virtual ammo box is causing problems and is simply being used as a cheap gimmick to get the players in, and it's working, last time I looked it was the most downloaded script on armaholic, and see this feature in most missions now, sorry to say but this bad design.

[Alabatross 1]

See what Celery said: no amount of "downsides simulation" can overcome the SIK KILLZ.

Yes it can. Sniper rifles currently fill the roles of many weapons, you can use it as a single shot assault rifle because its easy to turn

Eventually they'll be a hassle to use except in situations they're needed

[chortles 263]

That's not what he meant, but rather "people will resort to sniper rifles even when they're more of a hassle to use in situations except where they're needed".

[Reuben5150 2]

Of course a good recon can be an asset, and if their good with a high calibre long range rifle that's a plus too, but most cases they are not much use at anything, speaking more from old BF experience but sill applies here.

Few things I would have liked to have seen but probably won't- weapon x-hair removed from all sniper rifles and also limited scope customization, in other words no red dot or holo.

[chortles 263]

And that's what we have it out against so many Recon players for. :p

The lack of red dot or holo (actually more likely under the current attachment system than under the proposed "mount/rail"-based one) wouldn't go around the fact that the in-game SOS has a built-in BUIS in the same style as old ACOGs...

[Reuben5150 2]

and that's a whole other issue with optics, if you have a 12x (or 4x even) with a red dot mounted on top then it make all other scopes redundant, generally speaking.

[chortles 263]

The "problem" with trying to resolve that is that it's up to the mission maker to restrict things, but then as we've seen the current implementation from the devs' own end is "every magnified optic gets a CQB mode, whether BUIS (SOS), zoom (MRCO) or red dot (everything else)".

[Mirudes 1]

People use sniper rifles because there's no real downside in this game, I think.

The location of the sniper could be revealed after the first shot through the simulation of a smoke cloud.

[Reuben5150 2]

The "problem" with trying to resolve that is that it's up to the mission maker to restrict things, but then as we've seen the current implementation from the devs' own end is "every magnified optic gets a CQB mode, whether BUIS (SOS), zoom (MRCO) or red dot (everything else)".

Exactly, it seems an unfortunate case if the game will require mods in order to fix the basics, but I suppose its still early days yet

---------- Post added at 22:22 ---------- Previous post was at 22:16 ----------

The location of the sniper could be revealed after the first shot through the simulation of a smoke cloud.

Sure, smoke, muzzle flash and noise should be a pretty big downside, only problem is it seems far too easy to kill sat back at 1300-1500m where these "indicators" don't really work.

[dale 11]

As I mentioned somewhere.. This virtual ammo box is causing problems and is simply being used as a cheap gimmick to get the players in, and it's working, last time I looked it was the most downloaded script on armaholic, and see this feature in most missions now, sorry to say but this bad design.

How is a virtual ammo box the issue? even if there were normal ammo boxes you would still have the issue, except at least with the virtual ammo box you can limit kit distribution to certain classes just in the same way you can limit kit distribution by making a script which removes Sniper rifles/scopes from non sniper units.

You need to provide more feedback than just a generalisation lol, you could just as well say "its the respawn scripts fault because you don't respawn fast enough to make the body and weapon disappear", also it doesn't matter what type of system your using if you don't have the necessary restrictions anything is possible.

It's really down to the server as they are the ones who play the mission, if they don't have a set of values or don't check missions then its relatively easy for players to take advantage and create their own little world inside the server, mission makers just do that "make missions" they don't force server admins or players to use them.

I also come to another point and that is at the time the sniper rifle was a new weapon, of course people are going to over use it they hadn't seen anything new for a while.

I agree though that there aren't enough simulated physics for the weapons, considering this is about warfare and long range warfare at that you would expect at least wind to have a stance in the game towards bullet physics, in regards to PvP just make sure that sniper rifles are very rare or remove them entirely if you can't control that rarity.

[galzohar 31]

The biggest problem is with the weapon handling, not so much with the physics/ballistics. Sure there's no wind, but simulating wind properly would be nearly-impossible (you'd have to get some practical RL sniping experience to really get it, but the short story is that the graphics in game are nowhere near where they need to be in order for wind estimation to work like it works IRL). And really aiming is way too easy, and is just as easy with a larger heavier weapon. Weapon weight and length needs to have a much more significant effect on your ability to aim steadily - Especially at long ranges and in standing/crouch positions. Also, agility in CQB is a problem as well.

[Mac 1]

You guys gotta have some patience. Think of A2 on release and then the polished A2. Then think how A3 is now (before release) and how it will be once it is polished and gets picked up officially by the major arma communities. Then think of the modding community and what they will also bring to the table for many years to come.

[tremanarch 6]

You guys gotta have some patience. Think of A2 on release and then the polished A2. Then think how A3 is now (before release) and how it will be once it is polished and gets picked up officially by the major arma communities. Then think of the modding community and what they will also bring to the table for many years to come.

true that but most changes didnt happen cause everyone waited, but because everyone cried / discussed stuff in the forums etc, and now look: thats what we are doing right now.

[Skull132 1]

I'm not sure as to how many have already said this, but it boils down to the server/community you're playing on/with. I play on servers run by MILSIM groups, usually on domi, and over the past 4/5 days I have only seen one sniper. Everyone else has had ARs.

Also, the snipers have a downside in my opinion: they're slow. I will not take a sniper rifle to an assault, because when you play aggressively, engagement distance is going to be around 300 metres. If you start fiddling around with a bolt-action AM rifle at that distance, while facing down a fireteam of enemy, you are most likely going to end up dead. It's all about your own game mentality, and how you play. You would select your weapon according to that, and if you want to skirmish with the enemy, then yes, a sniper rifle is the best option, but not for forcing your way into a compound.

[galzohar 31]

Well the problem with unrealistic weapon handling have survived all the way from OFP into ArmA 2 OA. ArmA 3 is a huge improvement in terms of how weapon sway works, but still nowhere near where it should be in terms of how difficult it is to aim a weapon in real life - Especially a heavy one. I'd say "it's still early and we should wait" as well, but to be honest it seems more like BIS doesn't consider this as something of high importance. Either because they want to satisfy the people who want everything easy, or simply because they don't care enough about simulating this aspect of the game properly and prefer to focus their attention elsewhere. Or a combination of both. Either way - It's quite disappointing, because aiming a weapon could be much more satisfying with just a bit more effort put into it by BIS, and I find it much more important for the overall feel of the game than having another vehicle, a new weapon system or even over having better vehicle handling/physics. Weapon handling is a cornerstone of any game that claims to properly simulate infantry combat and should not be neglected at all.

[Reuben5150 2]

How is a virtual ammo box the issue?

I don't care if its used in one 1 team vs AI, but anywhere else is silly, picking up weapons off dead body's is fine.

[dale 11]

I don't care if its used in one 1 team vs AI, but anywhere else is silly, picking up weapons off dead body's is fine.

The only way to play PvP is with a virtual AmmoBox, any other method doesn't suffice as it is too limiting, unless of course you are playing 1 life in which case I doubt the issue of lots of snipers running around would be present as you would only have say 1 or 2 snipers untill everyone died.

if you are playing extended PvP you must have a virtual ammo box of some kind so that players have a system with which to gain the equipment they require, and also the ammo that they require from an unlimited resource, its then down to the mission maker to limit the kits for example only having 2 snipers per 50 players.

And making it so that certain guns will be removed from the players inventory if they are not that class.

If what people are looking at are DayZ or Wasteland as examples of PvP, then they would be wrong anyway as these missions are designed to be "horde the weapons" missions, but in organised PvP where by one team has to take a series of objectives to win the mission (i.e. AAS or AAD) then it is very much down to the mission designer to ensure that certain assets are balanced well which comes down to vehicles and weapons which includes the sniper.

The Virtual Ammo box is just a tool with which to allow the player to have multiple loadouts and choose what gear they require, you don't blame the tool, you blame the guy holding the tool.

[Reuben5150 2]

Big part of what defines a "class" is the kit and weapons they carry and each class has role to play if you have unlimited access to everything then you effectively create a classless system just like Dayz and WL but even in those mods you have to work for the gear.

Appropriate gear for each class with some customization available and limited slots for each class, this is what I want to try to do.

[Mirudes 1]

Try to solve this problem the other way round: When a player has a special gear, he becomes a class, he shows up in the menus as a "Sniper" or "AT-soldier" and is from now on limited.

[ardyvee 10]

I guess one of the issues is that there is little incentive to use anything else other than sniper rifles/marksman rifles (if such thing exists). AI doesn't suffer from supression, so a machinegun becomes inferior (unless you prefer the high capacity). Another possible candidate would be a rifle with a grenade launcher, but to use that it requires some skill (motion prediction, correctly estimating distances, finding cover from where you won't get killed) that the current sniper rifles do not require (estimate range, even if using bullets, adjust zero, aim and shoot). The other issue is that on some servers there is an issue with the AI engaging you effectively (probably caused by what I perceive as low skill level of the players), and you end up with: select sniper rifle, engage from as far as possible from where you can see the enemy (which happens to be fairly close, because anything really far would require people to be patient, predict the motion of their targets).

Less than sniping is cool, more like it's just the best tool for the job since the environment/game mechanics don't really make the other tools better. To put an example: in dslyecxi's videos, when bullets start firing, everyone immediately runs to cover/concealment and/or goes prone. LMGs start firing. Grenades may be thrown/launched. Both sides do this (unless they are playing the AI, and I won't really talk about how the AI behaves in this case). On the public servers? The AI doesn't really try to find cover. And I perceive that the general player population doesn't know how to do it effectively.

Just my two cents.

[Masharra 10]

I guess one of the issues is that there is little incentive to use anything else other than sniper rifles/marksman rifles (if such thing exists). AI doesn't suffer from supression, so a machinegun becomes inferior (unless you prefer the high capacity). Another possible candidate would be a rifle with a grenade launcher, but to use that it requires some skill (motion prediction, correctly estimating distances, finding cover from where you won't get killed) that the current sniper rifles do not require (estimate range, even if using bullets, adjust zero, aim and shoot). The other issue is that on some servers there is an issue with the AI engaging you effectively (probably caused by what I perceive as low skill level of the players), and you end up with: select sniper rifle, engage from as far as possible from where you can see the enemy (which happens to be fairly close, because anything really far would require people to be patient, predict the motion of their targets).

Less than sniping is cool, more like it's just the best tool for the job since the environment/game mechanics don't really make the other tools better. To put an example: in dslyecxi's videos, when bullets start firing, everyone immediately runs to cover/concealment and/or goes prone. LMGs start firing. Grenades may be thrown/launched. Both sides do this (unless they are playing the AI, and I won't really talk about how the AI behaves in this case). On the public servers? The AI doesn't really try to find cover. And I perceive that the general player population doesn't know how to do it effectively.

Just my two cents.

To expand on that.. Grenades and suppression and all that jazz(for ai) are on servers, just not usually public ones. Pubs dont seem to like their ai doing the same things they do. (arma 2) but I presume soon enough the ai mods will come to arma 3.

Most public (vs ai ) game modes.... wait Didnt I post in this thread already?.. are turkey shoots with heavily limited ai and/or over-equipped players.

[Reuben5150 2]

Most public (vs ai ) game modes.... wait Didnt I post in this thread already?.. are turkey shoots with heavily limited ai and/or over-equipped players.

And very boring they are too, it's sad to see the top populated servers apart from WL are these types of missions and find I it rather ironic that a lot of the people playing them are actually true milsim guys, but when looking in from the outside it all looks pretty ridiculous.