Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 12, 2013 its rather sad then funny, but i kinda did except nothing then trolling here. Don't give up NeuroFunker, millions of people died in WW2 and it's right they should be remembered, whatever flag they fought under. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeuroFunker 11 Posted May 12, 2013 Don't give up NeuroFunker, millions of people died in WW2 and it's right they should be remembered, whatever flag they fought under. thats exactly was the point of my thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 12, 2013 http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/3412/valent20082008.a5/0_2420e_16cf8afc_XL Bullshit. That symbol doesn't represent the people who died for our freedom, it represents the ideology that worked with and supplied the Nazis for many years, enabling them to invade Poland, France, the Netherlands, etc., and didn't stop helping them until they themselves were attacked by them, and after and during the war behaved no better than the Nazis, by enslaving half of Europe for decades to come. It does zero to represent those nations that actually saved our democracy, and not at all any of those who died for it, except perhaps the victims of Communism throughout Finland, Poland, the Ukraines, the Baltic states, Hungary, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrcash2009 0 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) You posted pictures of the USA hinting it was a fascist state that displays fascist symbols? It's a common conspiracy theory is it not, that's why you hid it in a spoiler? Guess what to not clog thread I put this in a spoiler too :) ... No I posted images showing the Fasch symbol that I could find at the time of posting. If it a common conspiracy thats in your world. I put in in bloody spoiler becuase I didnt want to clog the thread with large images .... for F. sake mate your getting desperate now. You were then made aware of the the precise history of the use of the ancient Roman Symbol of the Fasces and how it was highjacked by the personality cult of Musolinni at a much later date. Ancient Rome is current, you are blind to that, thats not my issue, these things are not on display for fun. And your one post with a link is somehow the most correct and informed and thus Im now aware of it and that's it done and dusted? Dont make me laugh & lessen the condensing attitude if you can. Every thread that is posted to report interesting news items or pay respect to the dead is highjacked within 5 posts by either you or one of the other tinfoil hat squad with this nonsense. Don't know how you get away with it or why it is tollerated. Lets hope you get banned from this thread as well. I will not comment further. Decoded: "Every time a good subject arises with more than one side to said subject, other people post things highlighting other sides of said subject to broaden the discussion of which I dont agree with and so I have to shut them down as if I am all knowing and all others must be wrong in my eyes." Every time I post something on a subject making it clear as to why or at best keep it within the subjects area I have someone like yourself who runs in on the back of it and screams the usual "flag to moderator" crap in order to get a rise. Fasch symbols being thrown around in important places to this very day arent in place for some historic ref artistry, if you cant comprehend anything other than that, then please dont comment on it further as currently your trolling "me" at this time. So get over it, I wont be posting much more about it either, I think its interesting an subject, and if you think Fascism is eradicated it hasn't been unless you live under a rock. And please save the offending the dead card as that's nothing to do with it as a subject or what I was referring to and posted about that already. All you have done so far in this thread is run in and try to shut down others or question posters you dont agree with (mainly due to pre conceived ideas of them from other threads that are not related), not once have you posted about this subject yourself, so think about that also. @Neurofunker ... directly to you I apologise mate, I saw the larger aspect of the fascism area and just find it very interesting historical and current. Edited May 12, 2013 by mrcash2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrsero 10 Posted May 12, 2013 That's being said, the topic of Soviet Union is really difficult. Lots of people dislike Soviets because they did alot of bad things, lets say they were the continuation of the Nazi tyranny. People just don't want to respect them for things they've done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) Hmm... Even though they indeed defeated the nazis, on the second hand they weren't much better than nazi's themselves. Well, the sovjets as part of the allies did bear the brunts of the war with lots of casualties. And it is of course understandable that a victory day is an important celebration. But....there is still one thing what is disturbing. Germany is probably leading in dealing with their past wheras other countries who took part in ww2 have deficites. In the Nuremberg trials, actually criminals did judge over criminals and thats an irony. Edited May 12, 2013 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 12, 2013 Yeah, well the thing is that Stalin brought that on the Russians himself. If it hadn't been for the enormous support he gave the Nazis and the Italians in the form of vital trade agreements up until they turned against him, the Germans couldn't have kept the war going for more than a year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) @ mrcash - lol perhaps you should seek professional help? They are called conspiracy theories for a reason, they aren't real or true and really have no place in a thread commemorating the millions of deaths in the Soviet Union during WW2. It's a human tragedy, politics and silly fables should be kept out of it, it's very disrepectfull to people who fought and died under conditions we can't imagine today. Edited May 12, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrcash2009 0 Posted May 12, 2013 (edited) @ mrcash - lol perhaps you should seek professional help? Is that truly necessary? Is it really? I will take that as a direct insult, keep your private thoughts to yourself or PM them, if you want to file everything you cant comprehend into a box & file it under "dont bother" thats your business. it's very disrepectfull to people who fought and died under conditions we can't imagine today. Any less than questioning another posters mental state just becuase you disagree with them if we are talking about respecting etc? Its just as disrespectful to fly said symbols in political places today that being the case, but then I didn't create them nor do I proceed to pin them up anywhere as I feel the same, just something to consider. Edited May 12, 2013 by mrcash2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) More fascism to report! Here is a picture of the Lincoln Memorial, President Lincoln with 2 fasces symbols on his chair, OMG, demolish it immediately, Lincoln was a fascist! lol They are displayed on almost every monument and old building in Washington - are you suggesting that all of this be destroyed simply because Musolini highjacked a harmless symbol for a few years? Yet you assure me all marbles are accounted for and both oars are in the water? The historical timeline is well established fact - you have the link. Maybe it's time to consider that you have been taken in by a conspiracy theory you found on the web? Edited May 13, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrcash2009 0 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) You posted a limp wiki link? Ok quote from it: The original symbol of fascism, in Italy under Benito Mussolini, was the fasces. This is an ancient Roman symbol of power carried by lictors in front of magistrates; a bundle of sticks featuring an axe, indicating the power over life and death. Its a lovely symbol to use I admit, represents such a great life enhancing outlook. Your simplified version of usage isnt the point its its power and historic value and symbolic of what it represents and doesn't stop at musilini's particular usage. You even said yourself its ancient Roman heritage and yet I said it links to Rome and you shout me down as some unhinged nutjob, do you study ancient artefacts? do you study true meaning of the ancients and its uses today? If you did you must have skim read it (linking wiki links for one thing). Not a jot of "conspiracy website" shows this, Library, museums, official archives, Documentaries for TV? If that's a conspiracy so is wiki links you linked. But then your so close minded anything that isn't in your field of view = conspiracy theory ... and that's just for too simple a scape goat. BTW the only link I saw was a swastika link you posted. Ive bumped into people like you before, they come and they go in real life and online, all of them go for the attack as always. You still insinuate mental state in your last post, let me ask you ... have I ever made any of those offensive insinuations to you? But then you made it clear that anything you cant comprehend or looked further & assume = people who look at such things are mentally less than you and also complete bullshitters. Heres a priceless and telling comment you made of me before, spoilers used for a tad OT: I can't understand what he means most of the time and have to re-read it several times over. It's a very poor standard of English and the legibility changes from post to post, almost as if 2 or more people share the same account? You question my mental state, grammar English standards (its a forum not an exam board), and put it like im some sort of account hacker/abuser ... all becuase you dont agree with someone? Really? Dear me. Difference is I dont scream moderators bans for people, I just assume we are adults and we can agree to differ. Edited May 13, 2013 by mrcash2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tyrsero 10 Posted May 13, 2013 Being a drama queen won't help this discussion too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) @mrcash - it was ProfTournesol that posted the link for you on page 1, here it is again: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces In the USA they represent "strength through unity" - the Union of the States. e.g. the Mace of the United States House of Representatives - 13 rods (13 original states) bound together in unity. The images you posted all appear on conspiracy theorist websites and blogs - google the links..... Edited May 13, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mrcash2009 0 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) The images you posted all appear on conspiracy theorist websites and blogs - google the links..... Just examples of real life things, so becuase an image appears linked into a database on a website you dont agree with its a false image? You do realise I mentioned in my first post I googled them just so I could like the "image" not the "website" ... you did know that right? Let me quote my first post to clarify: the Fasch symbolism is in many places to this very day, this is just a google search example, and can be found in many countries. Time and time again I see the same old same old, its not the packaging its the content and just deflects the point as always. If you ignore the obvious things that are completely clear (what I highlighted for example in previous post) then I cant really add anything more to that. Your fascination with conspiracy theory labels is quite amazing, you seem more obsessed with it than you paint me as. If I had taken the images and put them on photobucket URL is that then more valid & palatable for you as an image that's the same thing of real life content? In the USA they represent "strength through unity" - the Union of the States. e.g. the Mace of the United States House of Representatives - 13 rods (13 original states) bound together in unity. Im sure that on the face of things these interpretations are true just like Mussolini interpretation and use and so on. Although the image and symbols are never changed and they have a very long standing in history before picked up by other countries or parties, that being the point of which you want to play down & stick in a box and keep reaching for the conspiracy card. Being a drama queen won't help this discussion too. What discussion? I just see one sided "arguments" and name calling. Wikipedia, the future of history in a continued open changeable and re-writeable database format, wonderful. Edited May 13, 2013 by mrcash2009 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeuroFunker 11 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) Thanks everyone who understands, and respects soviet veterans of WWII! Since it's already a offtopic, and you talk about symbols, like swastica, see, many of you don't know, that the symbol of fascism is swastika, a holy symbol, still used in Tibet and by Budhists Countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika And ofcourse, nobody knows, swastika was used in Russian Imperium, on rubels back in 1912 or 1920. Golden swastika, was used by Siberian Soviet army Swastika in USA Always Coca-Cola anyone? Wish you good luck Edited May 13, 2013 by NeuroFunker Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonci87 163 Posted May 13, 2013 I guess this thread should be closed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 13, 2013 I guess this thread should be closed... Fascist! ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 13, 2013 Thanks everyone who understands, and respects soviet veterans of WWII! Well you certainly didn't start the thread by doing that. Using the symbol to represent all Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, Belorussian, Baltic, etc. soldiers is nothing less than as bad as using the Swastika to represent every single German soldier in the war. Many of the soldiers who served under that symbol were extremelly severly oppressed by the ideology you chose to celebrate as having freed Europe, as opposed to the actual soldiers who did it. Go ask some Ukrainian Red Army veteran whos family starved to death and was persecuted for being Christians what he feels about the Hammer and the Scicle, and you'll have a rude awakening because of what he says about your beloved extreme political views. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oxmox 73 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) If it hadn't been for the enormous support he gave the Nazis and the Italians in the form of vital trade agreements up until they turned against him, the Germans couldn't have kept the war going for more than a year. Yeah, there is a lot of silence about the support of the Third Reich. There were more countries who did support Hitler before and even during the war, the USA (companies like DuPont,Standard Oil,..) did deliver alone a day before the outbreak of ww2 around 500 million tons of Tetraethyllead for the production of synthetic petrol. Without the deliveries from DuPont and Standard Oil, Hitler probably could not supply his military to start the war. The Third Reich had no Oil ressources, thats one of the reason why Hitler did widen out the war and occupied or aimed for areas with oil ressources in the advanced war. Other companies like GE, Opel,IBM, Ford, GM... are just more examples. Standard Oil for example did support in world war 1, during the war, both sides axis and allies with petrol/oil. It was actually a betrayal on loyal allies soldiers who did fight in the trenches and died for "honor and glory". Similarities are found in ww2 where companies gained "double profits". Edited May 13, 2013 by oxmox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NeuroFunker 11 Posted May 13, 2013 I guess this thread should be closed... because? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 13, 2013 He's right, it should've been closed right away, and you should've been banned because you had no intention here but to celebrate Communism, an extremist ideology no better than Nazism for the "liberation" of Europe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mattar_Tharkari 10 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) Standard Oil,..) did deliver alone a day before the outbreak of ww2 around 500 million tons of Tetraethyllead for the production of synthetic petrol. 500 million tons eh? Gee whiz, they had some cool transportation and storage technology in those days didn't they!? Yeah Standard Oil did some crooked dealings before the USA entered the war in 1941, actual volumes may be slightly lower lol (remove the million). As for the USA/Standard Oil supplying both Germany and Allies during WW1 - nonsense (prove it). The main reason for the USA entering WW1 was German / Austrian U-boats sinking it's ships and tankers! No US ships passed the Allied Naval Blockade of German Ports. Germany got it's oil from Romania until they sided with the Allies and the oil refineries were destroyed by the UK. http://www.usmm.org/ww1merchant.html Edited May 14, 2013 by Mattar_Tharkari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoRailgunner 0 Posted May 13, 2013 Why so angry about an public holiday? Victory Day marks the end of World War 2 in Europe, specifically the capitulation of Nazi forces to the Allies (the United Kingdom, Soviet Union, France, the United States and other principal Allied nations) on May 8, 1945. The British Channel Islands were not liberated from German Occupation until May 9 (Jersey and Guernsey), May 10 (Sark), and May 16 (Alderney). and In Russia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Belarus and other countries of the former Soviet Union, the day of Victory over Nazi Germany was celebrated on May 9. When the German Instrument of Surrender actually entered into force in the West (May 8, 1945 at 23:01 CET) a similar but entirely separate document had not been signed with the Soviet Union, and it was not signed until the following day. Some post-Soviet countries, most notably the Russian Federation, have continued the tradition. Maybe try to discuss or rate how good/bad propaganda was (or still is) in a new thread? :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
batto 17 Posted May 13, 2013 (edited) In Pilsen, there is Freedom Celebratation day in May featuring parade through town with mainly US vehicles (+ few from other western nations). It's basically "Thank you America" day because US troops liberated Pilsen and stayed near it for some time. I heard some stories from my grandma about that time. Her family was very poor and US soldiers gave them food in exchange for cleaning and ironing their uniforms (which was not easy job as ironing US uniforms had some damn strict rules). Few woman from that village in the end emigrated with their new boyfriends to America. She said that US troops initially wanted to free Prague but there was some late deal between US and Russia that Russian troops will handle that even though US troops could've arrived there sooner and that's also why they stayed near Pilsen. I don't know if it's true. The fun fact is that in Prague they can't celebrate troops that liberated them because they'd have to celebrate Soviet Russia =P (eg. someone who brought 45 years of crap). Still, the bad ones was a little group of Soviet leaders who forced their ideology upon other nations and not the soldiers who actually helped us in WW2. So little kiddies like scrim can go and *** themselves with their simple world view (I'm ending it right here). Edited May 13, 2013 by batto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scrim 1 Posted May 13, 2013 So little kiddies like scrim can go and *** themselves. How about mature grown ups like you go ahead and use those eyes and brains to read what the little kiddies write, or can't you read? Using the symbol to represent all Russian, Ukrainian, Georgian, Belorussian, Baltic, etc. soldiers is nothing less than as bad as using the Swastika to represent every single German soldier in the war. Many of the soldiers who served under that symbol were extremelly severly oppressed by the ideology you chose to celebrate as having freed Europe, as opposed to the actual soldiers who did it. Because the above, written by the little kiddie, clearly puts all the blame on the average Red Army soldier, emphasizing what an evil evildoer he was, as opposed to just being a soldier forced to fight for an evil regime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites